Gears Hierachy?

curium
curium Posts: 815
edited November 2009 in Road beginners
As a newbie I find it quite confusing all the different gears and brakes names i hear thrown around and this makes it hard for me to judge which is a better spec.

The names I've heard the most are 105, tiagra, dura-ace and ultegra.

Which is best? Which is worst and why?

Feel free to discuss other groupsets not listed also.

Cheers!
«1

Comments

  • GavH
    GavH Posts: 933
    You've only quoted 4 Shimano made groupsets, there is also Campagnolo and SRAM to consider.

    Within the Shimano lineup Dura-Ace is the best, then Ultegra, then 105, finally Tiagra. Beyond that there is Sora and then 2200 which I think is about to be replaced in the line up by 2300. In essence, the lighter the better, although some would say that this also compromises durability.
  • gkerr4
    gkerr4 Posts: 3,408
    yes - Gav has outlined the shimano range - the campag range is currently:
    (high to low)

    Super record
    record
    chorus
    athena
    centaur
    veloce

    however - even the base model campag veloce is higher up the hierarchy than the top shimano group.

    SRAM goes:
    (High to low)

    red
    force
    rival

    with rival being roughly '105' spec, force being 'ultegra' and red being dura-ace.
  • softlad
    softlad Posts: 3,513
    as a general rule, the price goes up, as the performance goes up, as the weight goes down...
  • curium
    curium Posts: 815
    gkerr4 wrote:
    yes - Gav has outlined the shimano range - the campag range is currently:
    (high to low)

    Super record
    record
    chorus
    athena
    centaur
    veloce

    however - even the base model campag veloce is higher up the hierarchy than the top shimano group.

    SRAM goes:
    (High to low)

    red
    force
    rival

    with rival being roughly '105' spec, force being 'ultegra' and red being dura-ace.
    So the main difference within these ranges is the weight and the campagnolo range is lighter then all the shimano range? I guess that would make campagnolo better than shimano? Is that fact or subject to opinion? Where does SRAM fit relative to Shimano & Campagnolo or is it more nuanced then that?
  • redddraggon
    redddraggon Posts: 10,862
    gkerr4 wrote:
    with rival being roughly '105' spec, force being 'ultegra' and red being dura-ace.

    I'd say Rival was as good as, if not better, than Ultegra.
    I like bikes...

    Twitter
    Flickr
  • Biles
    Biles Posts: 40
    Its mostly opinion. At the top end they are all pritty similar with just slight differences in how they operate.
  • softlad
    softlad Posts: 3,513
    gkerr4 wrote:

    with rival being roughly '105' spec, force being 'ultegra' and red being dura-ace.

    Rival is probably on a par - if not better - than Ultegra, both for performance and weight.....

    (edit - dragon beat me to it.. )
  • Chris James
    Chris James Posts: 1,040
    gkerr4 wrote:

    however - even the base model campag veloce is higher up the hierarchy than the top shimano group.

    Perhaps not the most helpful answer to the OP who clearly is seeking information and not knockabout Shimano bashing.

    Curium, Shimano, Campag and SRAM all make good groupsets. The 'quality' of each can be guessed at by the price, although much of the price difference can be explained by marketing / product differentiation rather than massive performance differences.
  • softlad
    softlad Posts: 3,513
    gkerr4 wrote:

    however - even the base model campag veloce is higher up the hierarchy than the top shimano group.

    sorry, I missed this earlier - that is complete and utter nonsense.
  • redddraggon
    redddraggon Posts: 10,862
    softlad wrote:
    gkerr4 wrote:

    however - even the base model campag veloce is higher up the hierarchy than the top shimano group.

    sorry, I missed this earlier - that is complete and utter nonsense.

    Nah, until Shimano treat their STIs it's not.

    Who the fcuk at Shimano thought they should call them STIs anyway?
    I like bikes...

    Twitter
    Flickr
  • softlad
    softlad Posts: 3,513
    'treat' their STis...? you mean treat them to an ice cream or something..?

    STI, ergo, doubletap -- it's all just changing gear at the end of the day....
  • redddraggon
    redddraggon Posts: 10,862
    softlad wrote:
    'treat' their STis...? you mean treat them to an ice cream or something..?

    Sexually Transmitted Infections.

    Why call your shifters those? Seems a stupid thing to me.
    I like bikes...

    Twitter
    Flickr
  • cheehee
    cheehee Posts: 427
    softlad wrote:
    'treat' their STis...? you mean treat them with a cream or something..?
    ....

    I think that's what he was getting at.

    :wink:

    Edit: Damn Reddragons' fast fingers :D
  • John.T
    John.T Posts: 3,698
    Oh dear. Here we go again. (yawn) :roll: Go stand on the naughty step children.
  • softlad
    softlad Posts: 3,513

    Sexually Transmitted Infections.

    Why call your shifters those? Seems a stupid thing to me.

    Perhaps we should also criticise SRAM's 'doubletap' for encouraging firearms use.. ;)

    Anyway, I thought the medical convention was STD, not STI......??
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,923
    softlad wrote:
    'treat' their STis...? you mean treat them to an ice cream or something..?

    Sexually Transmitted Infections.

    Why call your shifters those? Seems a stupid thing to me.

    Cos when they were first invented STIs were generally called STDs! :lol:
  • keef66
    keef66 Posts: 13,123
    Our firm's global bonus scheme is called Short Term Incentive, so frequently referred to by the acronym STI. Always makes me chuckle.
  • Headhuunter
    Headhuunter Posts: 6,494
    softlad wrote:
    gkerr4 wrote:

    however - even the base model campag veloce is higher up the hierarchy than the top shimano group.

    sorry, I missed this earlier - that is complete and utter nonsense.

    Exactly! There's no way Veloce is as good as Dura Ace!! Anyway the original poster missed Xenon which is roughly equivalent to Sora in Shimano speak
    Do not write below this line. Office use only.
  • Mister W
    Mister W Posts: 791
    Xenon is no long in production. Good job really as it was shockingly bad.
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    To all the naysayers of Campy, Shimano, Sram, or whatever, I'll say again. All of these groups require you to push a lever, maybe 1/2 inch, with your finger tip, then the gears shift. How difficult can this be that you you would even consider picking one over the other. Just go back to down tube shifters and you won't have to worry about all the effort and problems associated with moving your finger that 1/2 inch.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 43,923
    Now I don’t care what nationality he was, he could have been another diehard Geordie for all I care. This guy came off as a complete ponce, and for a Doctor, who couldn’t even put his own chain on, didn’t ask if I was ok and had a tiny little scuff on his arm bandaged for him, is what is winding me up, that and all the hateful posts aimed at me.

    What do you mean "go back to", I'm still using them! :shock:
  • To the OP, don't listen to anyone who says that one make is better than another. It comes down to preference.

    SRAM - Doubletap shifting are what they are known for.
    Shimano - The Sora shifters come with a thumb lever to change gears in conjunction with the sideways movement of the brake lever. I think all the others use paddles behind the brake lever, instead of the thumb lever.
    Campagnolo - Use thumb shifters an all groupsets with paddles behind the brakes.

    I don't really know much more than that.
  • gkerr4
    gkerr4 Posts: 3,408
    softlad wrote:
    gkerr4 wrote:

    however - even the base model campag veloce is higher up the hierarchy than the top shimano group.

    sorry, I missed this earlier - that is complete and utter nonsense.

    Oh come on - did no one take that with the humour it deserved?
  • gkerr4
    gkerr4 Posts: 3,408
    softlad wrote:
    gkerr4 wrote:

    however - even the base model campag veloce is higher up the hierarchy than the top shimano group.

    sorry, I missed this earlier - that is complete and utter nonsense.

    Exactly! There's no way Veloce is as good as Dura Ace!! Anyway the original poster missed Xenon which is roughly equivalent to Sora in Shimano speak

    it was humor!

    and if you are still living in 2008 i missed Mirage too! - but they both disappeared this year
  • kfinlay
    kfinlay Posts: 763
    so where did Campag Champ come in then or is that even older?
    Kev

    Summer Bike: Colnago C60
    Winter Bike: Vitus Alios
    MTB: 1997 GT Karakorum
  • redddraggon
    redddraggon Posts: 10,862
    kfinlay wrote:
    so where did Campag Champ come in then or is that even older?

    That's not a proper group, it's just a set of triple specific stuff.
    I like bikes...

    Twitter
    Flickr
  • To the OP, don't listen to anyone who says that one make is better than another. It comes down to preference.

    SRAM - Doubletap shifting are what they are known for.
    Shimano - The Sora shifters come with a thumb lever to change gears in conjunction with the sideways movement of the brake lever. I think all the others use paddles behind the brake lever, instead of the thumb lever.
    Campagnolo - Use thumb shifters an all groupsets with paddles behind the brakes.

    I don't really know much more than that.

    so the main comlaint with sora shifters is that the thumb lever is awkward to reach, yet all campag groupsets are this way?
  • hopper1
    hopper1 Posts: 4,389
    dennisn wrote:
    To all the naysayers of Campy, Shimano, Sram, or whatever, I'll say again. All of these groups require you to push a lever, maybe 1/2 inch, with your finger tip, then the gears shift. How difficult can this be that you you would even consider picking one over the other. Just go back to down tube shifters and you won't have to worry about all the effort and problems associated with moving your finger that 1/2 inch.

    You've obviously not tried Campag, then, or Sora... You have to use your thumb to downshift.

    It is for this reason alone that I dislike Campags Ergo, which is a shame, 'cos the rest of their kit is really very good.
    I prefer SRAM :shock: and I would say that SRAM Force (2010) is better than Dura Ace, too.
    Start with a budget, finish with a mortgage!
  • dennisn
    dennisn Posts: 10,601
    hopper1 wrote:
    dennisn wrote:
    To all the naysayers of Campy, Shimano, Sram, or whatever, I'll say again. All of these groups require you to push a lever, maybe 1/2 inch, with your finger tip, then the gears shift. How difficult can this be that you you would even consider picking one over the other. Just go back to down tube shifters and you won't have to worry about all the effort and problems associated with moving your finger that 1/2 inch.

    You've obviously not tried Campag, then, or Sora... You have to use your thumb to downshift.

    It is for this reason alone that I dislike Campags Ergo, which is a shame, 'cos the rest of their kit is really very good.
    I prefer SRAM :shock: and I would say that SRAM Force (2010) is better than Dura Ace, too.

    I think I was just trying to make the point all the shifters these days are pretty d*mn easy
    to operate and all tend to work very well. :wink:
  • zedders
    zedders Posts: 509
    Being newbie(ish), trying to speak in newbie talk, without getting into a slagging match about which is best:
    And trying to stick to your original Q: then performance, reliability, and the weight of each groupset will pay a part in deciding how much a particular groupset costs, or how good it is. Other factors will be whether the groupset is made of mostly alloy, carbon, or a mixture of both components, and whether it’s a compact, double or triple, chainset etc, and if it’s 9,10 or 11 speed, blah, blah blah.

    Then do you want campag = Italian, lots of history, looks, more expensive? (Some say the best) Or Shim = Japanese, cheaper, but arguably as good. (Some say better, and under rated). And finally Sram = USA, just come onto the market over the last few years. (Again some have said very good).

    Deciding if Centaur is better than 105, or if Sram Red is better than Dura Ace and alike, is a subjective test really. You either have a top end groupset costing over a £1000 or you don’t. Or you have middle of the road, or an entry level groupset.

    So unless you’re going to test them all you have to go on what you can afford to start with? Only you can decide if Centaur is as better than 105 or Ultegra when weighing up all of the above! A Google search is the best way to work out the value of groupsets. Prices vary lots. I’ve seen Centaur for less than £500 or as much as £700+, so be careful.

    Finally, I've had Sora 8 speed, and it really isn't that bad to start with. It never let me down, and was ok. I now have Centaur. Much better and a good place to start, as is 105 or rival? (i.e middle of the road).
    "I spend my petrol money on Bikes, Beer, Pizza, and Donuts "

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/38256268@N04/3517156549/