"Roads are for cars, not lycra louts"

Alain Quay

http://www.smh.com.au/opinion/society-a ... utostart=1

Porgy

When I tried to look at that link it made my whole system crash

Edit - went back again - I was thinking it was a pretty unreasonable article before I realised it was about Australia - then my whole system crashed again! :roll:

Anonymous

See, I'm in two minds about this. As much as I wish our roads were safer, and that cars paid more attention to cyclists, I also realise that it's the car owners who foot the largest part of the bill for building and maintaining roads. Also, I see a lot of dangerous, or just plain ignorant cyclists, even out here in the countryside.

cee

yeehaamcgee wrote:

, I also realise that it's the car owners who foot the largest part of the bill for building and maintaining roads..

see thats the common misconception.

road building and maintenence is paid for by the general tax pot. not from VED.

so the reality is...anyone who pays income tax pays for the building and maintaining of the roads.

Chip \'oyler

yeehaamcgee wrote:

See, I'm in two minds about this. As much as I wish our roads were safer, and that cars paid more attention to cyclists, I also realise that it's the car owners who foot the largest part of the bill for building and maintaining roads. Also, I see a lot of dangerous, or just plain ignorant cyclists, even out here in the countryside.

Also - do bikes damage roads as much as cars?

cougie

yeehaamcgee wrote:

See, I'm in two minds about this. As much as I wish our roads were safer, and that cars paid more attention to cyclists, I also realise that it's the car owners who foot the largest part of the bill for building and maintaining roads. Also, I see a lot of dangerous, or just plain ignorant cyclists, even out here in the countryside.

Nope - car owners dont foot the largest part of the bill for building and maintaining roads - all of our taxes do.

Anyway - a lot of cyclists have cars too - so that blows your incorrect thought out of the water.

Sure there are some dangerous cyclists - but they're mainly a danger to themselves. I think its less than 1 person each year gets killed by a cyclist. Now compare that to cars = how many pedestrians and cyclists do they kill each year.

Anonymous

Hey, I said I was in two minds, not a concrete for or against.
I had assumed that our "road tax" was meant to cover the vast majority of road maintenance though.

As for cyclists killing other people, fair enough, not many kill other road users. However, how many cyclists are to blame for their own deaths due to irresponsible riding? I'd wager it's far higher.

Porgy

yeehaamcgee wrote:

Hey, I said I was in two minds, not a concrete for or against.
I had assumed that our "road tax" was meant to cover the vast majority of road maintenance though.

As for cyclists killing other people, fair enough, not many kill other road users. However, how many cyclists are to blame for their own deaths due to irresponsible riding? I'd wager it's far higher.

It's just a distraction from the important argument though - that roads though funded by all of us seem to be geared up for motorists above all; and that (just occasionally at least) cyclists get killed by motorists while not doing anything wrong - and anyway this same judgemental attitude is never levelled at motorists for whom we seem to be bending over backwards to protect on the roads.

Also that all of us to some extent are having to make compromises for poor driving and lack of focus by powers that be on cycling issues.

Porgy

Chip \'oyler wrote:

yeehaamcgee wrote:

See, I'm in two minds about this. As much as I wish our roads were safer, and that cars paid more attention to cyclists, I also realise that it's the car owners who foot the largest part of the bill for building and maintaining roads. Also, I see a lot of dangerous, or just plain ignorant cyclists, even out here in the countryside.

Also - do bikes damage roads as much as cars?

No - someone worked this out and worked out based on damage to the infrastructure we'd be paying 2p a year on average. Since I pay the full vehicle tax and hardly ever use a car I think I've made my contrinubution.

Mettan

How aggressive do you have to be at 5am, anyway? You never hear of rowers, joggers, swimmers, yoga artists or other dawn fitness devotees attacking people.

What an utterly silly and ignorant comment from this "journalist" :roll: - cyclists are regularly put in considerable danger from motorists, throughout the course of any particular year - Swimmers are not !!! Rowers are not !!! Yoga artists are not !!! Joggers on pavements are not !!!

Cyclists very rarely, if ever endanger Motorists lives - conversely, Motorists regularly put cyclists at risk from physical injury or worse.

Porgy

Motorists get angry just as much as cyclists and for compeltely petty reasons in most cases but instead of ranting and raving or spitting, etc, they just put their foot down and try to run someone over.

this, apparently, is the acceptable face of road rage. :roll:

Mettan

yeehaamcgee wrote:

See, I'm in two minds about this. As much as I wish our roads were safer, and that cars paid more attention to cyclists, I also realise that it's the car owners who foot the largest part of the bill for building and maintaining roads

Many/Most of us cyclists are also car owners (some own more than 1 car)

Mettan

Porgy wrote:

Motorists get angry just as much as cyclists and for compeltely petty reasons in most cases but instead of ranting and raving or spitting, etc, they just put their foot down and try to run someone over.

Agreed Porgy - its sad how this issue often gets twisted to make it seem like its a "50/50" situation between motorists and cyclists - on the contrary, Cyclists pose little-or-no threat to motorists in terms of physical injury or death, whereas Motorists pose a considerable threat to cyclists.

dodgy

yeehaamcgee wrote:

See, I'm in two minds about this. As much as I wish our roads were safer, and that cars paid more attention to cyclists, I also realise that it's the car owners who foot the largest part of the bill for building and maintaining roads. Also, I see a lot of dangerous, or just plain ignorant cyclists, even out here in the countryside.

I can't believe a cyclist has just written that.

deptfordmarmoset

Porgy wrote:

yeehaamcgee wrote:

Hey, I said I was in two minds, not a concrete for or against.
I had assumed that our "road tax" was meant to cover the vast majority of road maintenance though.

As for cyclists killing other people, fair enough, not many kill other road users. However, how many cyclists are to blame for their own deaths due to irresponsible riding? I'd wager it's far higher.

It's just a distraction from the improtant argument though - that roads though funded by all of us seem to be geared up for motorists above all and that occasionally cyclists egt killed not doing anything wrong. Also that all of us to some extent are having to make compromises for poor driving and lack of focus by powers that be on cycling issues.

From my interpretation of the video, it's a fairly classic scenario. Assuming a transitway is not bus only (in which case the cyclist shouldn't be there*), bus attempts overtake but does not have enough speed or room to complete the manoeuvre safely so he takes the cyclist's space, effectively forcing him to either brake suddenly or get pushed into the concrete barrier. Said cyclist, aware that his life has just been put into peril, sees red and gives chase and lamps the bus driver who almost killed him. Cyclist then gets vilified as lycra lout by gutter-press.

*and even if he shouldn't be there, this is not a defence for endangering his life. ''He shouldn't have been there so I killed him'' is not a solid defence plea.

Anonymous

dodgy wrote:

yeehaamcgee wrote:

See, I'm in two minds about this. As much as I wish our roads were safer, and that cars paid more attention to cyclists, I also realise that it's the car owners who foot the largest part of the bill for building and maintaining roads. Also, I see a lot of dangerous, or just plain ignorant cyclists, even out here in the countryside.

I can't believe a cyclist has just written that.

I was mistaken, I always thought (rather naively I suppose) that roads were paid for by road tax.

But still, I see bad drivers, and I see dangerous cyclists. Regardless of who's going to get injured, getting abuse from a cyclist who's behaving like a cnut, when the driver has done nothing wrong is infuriating.
And yes I'm a cyclist, and I also drive a car.

dennisn

lycra louts

volvicspar

Phewww. My blood pressure is much higher after reading that! I am glad at least we live in a half civilised country where you can cross the road where ever you like.

Any the article and the police state that the cyclist was riding illegally on the t-way (what ever that is, but it looks like our a roads that are actually motorways).If it's illegal to ride on the t-way, quote "was riding illegally on the bus only North-West T-way near Seven Hills.". In which case he is probably tosser.

The article is not good publicity for cyclists, but what can you expect ? He broke the law.


I do like this image though

dodgy

yeehaamcgee wrote:

I was mistaken, I always thought (rather naively I suppose) that roads were paid for by road tax.

Fair enough fella
Interesting point is that there was some analysis performed on the demographics of cyclists and motorists. The conclusion is that the average cyclist earns more than the average motorist. Hence, cyclists pay more towards the upkeep of the roads than motorists do. Not something you'd get very far arguing with a motorist over though

Anonymous

Both of my fully built up bikes are worth, individually, more than all the cars I've ever owned added together
However, I'm pretty sure I earn less than the average motorist, or average cyclist, for that matter.

While we're slightly off topic, I remember reading some demographic studies by Future Publishing once, which stated the kind of people, and incomes that their various magazines attract.
It turned out that on average, road cyclists earn a hell of a lot more than mountain bikers.

dodgy

Interesting! No doubt skewed wildly by Sir Alan Sugar's income

Porgy

yeehaamcgee wrote:

It turned out that on average, road cyclists earn a hell of a lot more than mountain bikers.

Ha! Most of the ones I see are about 14 - so it's not surprising.

Porgy

volvicspar wrote:

Any the article and the police state that the cyclist was riding illegally on the t-way (what ever that is, but it looks like our a roads that are actually motorways).If it's illegal to ride on the t-way, quote "was riding illegally on the bus only North-West T-way near Seven Hills.". In which case he is probably tosser.

Hmmm - not completely sure there until someone can tell us what a T-way is - it might just be a bus lane in which case even if he's not allowed to ride in one - you can imagine how difficult life would be for us if we weren't allowed to use the bus lanes. I'd probably be using them anyway just because of the increased risk i'd be subjecting myself to having to stick myself out on the main lane being undertaken by buses and taxis.

Australia does sound like a pretty backward place tbh - hicksville - or am I being unfair.

verylonglegs

As far as I'm concerned if the cyclist is riding illegally on a road he's not supposed to be on then he is a t1t and I can't sympathise with him in anyway.

deptfordmarmoset

From a quick look on interweb, a T-way or transitway turns out indeed to be bus only. So said cyclist shouldn't have been there. However, having had his life endangered, his anger is understandable.

ride_whenever

Mettan wrote:

How aggressive do you have to be at 5am, anyway? You never hear of rowers, joggers, swimmers, yoga artists or other dawn fitness devotees attacking people.

What an utterly silly and ignorant comment from this "journalist" :roll: - cyclists are regularly put in considerable danger from motorists, throughout the course of any particular year - Swimmers are not !!! Rowers are not !!! Yoga artists are not !!! Joggers on pavements are not !!!

Cyclists very rarely, if ever endanger Motorists lives - conversely, Motorists regularly put cyclists at risk from physical injury or worse.

Not to mention rowers are, fairly regularly, practically as bad as cyclists appear to be. Particularly when nearly killed by other river users...

Anonymous

I hate it when I'm driving to work and the local rowing team cuts me up. WANGERS

deptfordmarmoset

yeehaamcgee wrote:

I hate it when I'm driving to work and the local rowing team cuts me up. WANGERS

Hope you give them a right good rowlocking

Anonymous

No, I punched them in their cox

PBo

I bow to your punning skills - oar something.....

ride_whenever

you laugh, but there is one crazy guy i know, who gets out of his boat and hurls abuse at the rowers on a regular morning. All the rowers is doing is rowing past...