Petition against HGV deaths of cyclists

prawny

lost_in_thought wrote:

Wallace1492 wrote:

lost_in_thought wrote:

tjwood wrote:

Maybe you need to cycle more defensively.

If you're further from the kerb, drivers are more likely to see you and less likely to try to overtake dangerously (and if they do, you have some "buffer space" on your left to move into). But if you stay so far out that they are prevented from overtaking when they could otherwise have done so safely, you're just asking to be tailgated, and the driver will get annoyed and take more of a risk further up the road.

<snip>

This here, this is good advice in my book. It's what I do too, so perhaps I'm a little biased. I also thank them for staying behind me - trying to improve cyclist-driver relations!

LiT, there is probably a good reason that the male drivers will stay behind you longer.... Doesn't work for me.

Perhaps.

However, I just don't give them the option to pass by staying in primary if it would be unsafe (in my book) for them to pass me, if there's a pinch point or something. They're not going to ram you off the road, and beeping noises never hurt anybody.

Depends how loud they are :?

fnb1

this point was debated a little here,

http://highwycombecc.org/wheels/YaBB.pl?num=1231452641 couple of viewpoints but interesting to not that the OP was posting form a viewpoint in the USA. Same problems, same issues, different LGV rules, much more litigatious environ, but still no defined solution

Porgy

tjwood wrote:

Porgy wrote:

So the ones that cut me up through Woolwich and Greenwich, jump the lights and tailgate me must just be the bad apples eh?

I must just be so fecking unlucky that I get all the dodgy ones then!

Maybe you need to cycle more defensively.

If you're further from the kerb, drivers are more likely to see you and less likely to try to overtake dangerously (and if they do, you have some "buffer space" on your left to move into). But if you stay so far out that they are prevented from overtaking when they could otherwise have done so safely, you're just asking to be tailgated, and the driver will get annoyed and take more of a risk further up the road.

On the other hand, maybe you're cycling is wonderful and London is a horrible place to cycle. I wouldn't know. Though as long as you are on the road, there's always the potential for you to do more to make yourself safer.

All road users would benefit from further education. I think general awareness-raising could well be more effective than expensive formal driver training.

When the road is down to single lane - as it has been often through woolwich and Greenwich in the past year then it leaves little option for the cyclist. even cycling in the gutter won't allow a large vehicle to pass on a single lane.

I do ride defensively - I follow John Franklin's Cyclecraft as much as possible.

The other factor I think you're not allowing for in your appraisal of the situation is the sheer number of nutcases there are out there - if I try to ride according to Cyclecraft on Plumstead High street it's odds on that I'll upset a psychopath in a large 4 wheel weapon so I stay out of the way - unfortunately this leaves me vulnerable to other vehicles who frankly take the piss.

Trying to take the lane on two or three lane roads does not prevent lorries from cutting you up - much as I try I can't take three lanes at a junction - so at certain junctions - Greenwich, where that girl died, and further along in Deptford it happens often - a lorry speeds up to pass me - can't get ahead but does the left turn anyway forcing me to slam brakes on. It's happened so often now that I can anticipate it - but a cyclist new to that area probably wouldn't.

I don;t believe you should be blaming cyclists for everything.

bigmat

jedster wrote:

Matt,

The very rare occasions I find myself stuck on the left of HGV's / buses is when I'm approaching a junction where the lights have just turned red and I belive that I have more than enough time to filter left (occasionally its the safer / more accessible option) and then get myself in front of the traffic. I've had situations where a cyclist parks himself next to the bus / HGV, thereby causing me and any other cyclists doing the same to be stuck in a very uncomfortable position.

To be honest, while the cyclist stopping inside the HGV is very unwise, I don't see how it is a good idea to filter inside an HGV when you have to rely on someone else getting out of your way if you are to get in a safe position. You can't control other people, given that I wouldn't start the filter unless I was certain it was going to stay clear. Otherwise take primary behind the truck. If you are in primary you get loads of space.

J

Agreed, not good practice, but it does occasionally happen and I find myself wishing the cyclist in front would get the hell out of the way! Can also happen where you reach a junction at the same time as a larger vehicle (if no ASL) and don't even have to filterleft to find yourself stuck in no-man's land.

sicknote

lost_in_thought wrote:

Wallace1492 wrote:

lost_in_thought wrote:

tjwood wrote:

Maybe you need to cycle more defensively.

If you're further from the kerb, drivers are more likely to see you and less likely to try to overtake dangerously (and if they do, you have some "buffer space" on your left to move into). But if you stay so far out that they are prevented from overtaking when they could otherwise have done so safely, you're just asking to be tailgated, and the driver will get annoyed and take more of a risk further up the road.

<snip>

This here, this is good advice in my book. It's what I do too, so perhaps I'm a little biased. I also thank them for staying behind me - trying to improve cyclist-driver relations!

LiT, there is probably a good reason that the male drivers will stay behind you longer.... Doesn't work for me.

Perhaps.

However, I just don't give them the option to pass by staying in primary if it would be unsafe (in my book) for them to pass me, if there's a pinch point or something. They're not going to ram you off the road, and beeping noises never hurt anybody.

Well I can tell you that I have had to make the choice a few times to pull over at a pinch point or get knocked off as they were going for the gap in front of me by going on the other side of the road.

lost_in_thought

Sicknote wrote:

lost_in_thought wrote:

Wallace1492 wrote:

lost_in_thought wrote:

tjwood wrote:

Maybe you need to cycle more defensively.

If you're further from the kerb, drivers are more likely to see you and less likely to try to overtake dangerously (and if they do, you have some "buffer space" on your left to move into). But if you stay so far out that they are prevented from overtaking when they could otherwise have done so safely, you're just asking to be tailgated, and the driver will get annoyed and take more of a risk further up the road.

<snip>

This here, this is good advice in my book. It's what I do too, so perhaps I'm a little biased. I also thank them for staying behind me - trying to improve cyclist-driver relations!

LiT, there is probably a good reason that the male drivers will stay behind you longer.... Doesn't work for me.

Perhaps.

However, I just don't give them the option to pass by staying in primary if it would be unsafe (in my book) for them to pass me, if there's a pinch point or something. They're not going to ram you off the road, and beeping noises never hurt anybody.

Well I can tell you that I have had to make the choice a few times to pull over at a pinch point or get knocked off as they were going for the gap in front of me by going on the other side of the road.

They were on the other side of the road at a pinch point? I don't quite understand what you mean...

sicknote

They had gone on the other side of the road to get around me to then heads straight for the pinch point , leaving me two choices.

1/ Get knocked off
2/ more into the gutter and try to give them as much room to get passed me :evil:

Hope thats clearer

mudcovered

Sicknote wrote:

1/ Get knocked off
2/ more into the gutter and try to give them as much room to get passed me :evil:

3 brake gently and let them pass.

An irritating choice but one less likely to leave you squashed.

Mike

lost_in_thought

mudcovered wrote:

Sicknote wrote:

1/ Get knocked off
2/ more into the gutter and try to give them as much room to get passed me :evil:

3 brake gently and let them pass.

An irritating choice but one less likely to leave you squashed.

Mike

Damn it, that's just what I was about to say!

Ah well.

sicknote

mudcovered wrote:

Sicknote wrote:

1/ Get knocked off
2/ more into the gutter and try to give them as much room to get passed me :evil:

3 brake gently and let them pass.

An irritating choice but one less likely to leave you squashed.

Mike

That was what I did but if you had been behind me you would have seen how close it was and braking gently was not on the cards as they left it till the last minute to do it.

It was not if I had lots of space to do what I did as they just put they foots down and pushed they way in, with me just missing the back of they cars.

I hope you now have a clearer picture I what had to deal with the few times it has happened to me.

Plus the last guy to do this went passed me smiling at me, thinking to was funny.

He was lucky I did not catch him :evil:

Porgy

Sicknote wrote:

mudcovered wrote:

Sicknote wrote:

1/ Get knocked off
2/ more into the gutter and try to give them as much room to get passed me :evil:

3 brake gently and let them pass.

An irritating choice but one less likely to leave you squashed.

Mike

That was what I did but if you had been behind me you would have seen how close it was and braking gently was not on the cards as they left it till the last minute to do it.

It was not if I had lots of space to do what I did as they just put they foots down and pushed they way in, with me just missing the back of they cars.

I hope you now have a clearer picture I what had to deal with the few times it has happened to me.

Plus the last guy to do this went passed me smiling at me, thinking to was funny.

He was lucky I did not catch him :evil:

#

The same thing happens to me - that's why i get peed off when some people only go on about educating cyclists!!