Knocked off aswell...

rjh299
rjh299 Posts: 721
edited October 2009 in Road beginners
Seems the drivers of Britain are having a bad day!
Just seeking some advice on what to after being knocked off my bike today.
Here's the story...
In left hand lane (correct one) approaching a roundabout to go straight on. A car pulls out (wrongly IMO) from left which makes me slow down quite a bit. Then the car behind him pulls out aswell as I come onto the roundabout leaving me nowhere to go but his bonnet. Because the first car made me slow down considerably already, I am unhurt and the bikes not too bad. The wheel is 'out of true/buckled', thinking it might be too damaged to fix and there is a thin crack in one of my carbon forks. The driver stopped and I have all his details. Witnesses were my brother and an ambulance crew who were directly behind me and my brother at the roundabout. The driver accepted responsibility but does that mean anything now?
What are my next steps?
Thinking that I'll take bike to LBS tommorrow, assess damage, then contact driver or insurance. I don't have any insurance for my bike but should be able to claim of his or do the whole 'personal injury' thing?
My bike's a Madone 4.7, with full carbon frame so want to make sure the frames ok.
Sorry for the long post, but thanks for any help

Comments

  • zedders
    zedders Posts: 509
    He doesn't admit responsibility until it's on paper. So whatever he said to you at the roadside means jack.

    Personally I would:
    1 - Report it to the Police.
    2 - Seek legal advice.
    3 - Photograph the damage / any injuires etc.
    4 - Seek compensation.

    I only say this, as unfortunately due to HIS actions you have been forced into a corner. It's now dog eat dog and you have to go after him, just to get a FAIR settlement. Any weakness on your part and the other party will eat you up and spit you out! Trust me I've been there when crashed into, and it wasn't my fault. There are no nice people out there when it comes to insurnace/car accidents etc.

    Seriously be ruthless and kick up a stink. You'll feel bad about it, but you'll feel worse if he gets away with it or if you end up out of pocket?

    PS - Glad your ok :D
    "I spend my petrol money on Bikes, Beer, Pizza, and Donuts "

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/38256268@N04/3517156549/
  • top_bhoy
    top_bhoy Posts: 1,424
    I concur 100% with zedders. Also, make sure you are not out of pocket and compensated for all expenses. Keep a record of EVERY single action and cost involved which you make in regard to the incident. You will be able to claim justified out-of-pocket expenses.
  • This isn't looking like a good week for us, is it? :shock: (Look in the commuting section. There are a few threads regarding off in there too).

    You should definitely report it ASAP. Make sure you get written proof from the LBS regarding repairs and whatnot.

    Glad to hear you're okay. :) Lucky you even has a support car by the sounds of it. :P
  • huuregeil
    huuregeil Posts: 780
    Lots of useful stuff here:

    http://www.londonfgss.com/thread4213.html
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 42,297
    Get a couple of quotes for the damage from local shop, contact his insurers and claim against him but as above inform the police too just in case. As long as his insurance is valid they should pay out but it may take a few weeks. The other option may be to claim on your home contents policy as a last resort - I'm not sure if they can then try to seek settlement from the 3rd party's insurance as they can if you were driving and claimed through your car insurance though.
  • Mister W
    Mister W Posts: 791
    Yes, report it to the police and get quotes for the damage but don't assume at this stage the driver will try and wriggle out of paying for the damage. If you behave reasonably and are courteous and sensible when contacting him then you may find he pays up out of his pocket and you avoid the hassle of dealing with an insurance company. Even if he does decide to go through his insurance company then it will be a much easier process if you don't p**** him off.
  • rjh299
    rjh299 Posts: 721
    Thanks for all advice.
    Been to LBS today and got a valuation quote of £3060 so think it's got to go insurance route. They just wrote the bike off and totalled up replacement cost. The guy seemed reasonable so i''l do the same unless his starts trying to take the p***.
    Contacted police but it's not a police matter because no-one was injured. Going to contact driver this evening and break the news. Hopefully all goes well
  • soveda
    soveda Posts: 306
    rjh299 wrote:
    Thanks for all advice.
    Been to LBS today and got a valuation quote of £3060 so think it's got to go insurance route. They just wrote the bike off and totalled up replacement cost. The guy seemed reasonable so i''l do the same unless his starts trying to take the p***.
    Contacted police but it's not a police matter because no-one was injured. Going to contact driver this evening and break the news. Hopefully all goes well

    I thought all RTAs were strictly speaking "police matters"
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 42,297
    Not necessarily only if there are injuries or damage other than the cars involved I think.
  • Mothyman
    Mothyman Posts: 655
    let us know how it goes rjh299

    good luck
  • zedders
    zedders Posts: 509
    rjh299 wrote:
    Thanks for all advice.
    Been to LBS today and got a valuation quote of £3060 so think it's got to go insurance route. They just wrote the bike off and totalled up replacement cost. The guy seemed reasonable so i''l do the same unless his starts trying to take the p***.
    Contacted police but it's not a police matter because no-one was injured. Going to contact driver this evening and break the news. Hopefully all goes well

    Section 170 of the Road Traffic Act 1988 states: if owing to the presence of a mechanically propelled vehicle a accident occurs whereby a) injury is caused, blah blah blah, or b) 'if damage is caused to another vehicle'' (which includes bicycles / trailers and alike). blah blah blah.

    So the feds fobbed you off am affraid, and it is a ''reportable accident'' without a doubt. Furthermore if the driver caused a collison and drove into you on a roundabout I would argue that he has driven without due care and attention? (i.e below the standards a reasonable person would expect). This is an offence under section 3 of the RTA 1988.

    Personally speaking I would visit the Police Station in person and complain if no one will take you seriously. Minimum they should create an incident logging the details of the accident. (time, date location etc) and you should ask to speak to a Police Officer. When you do speak to him/her I would explain you bike is a write off (state £3000) and that you have witnesses etc. Like I said in my initial post, you need to kick up a stink mate!

    I can honestly say if I were in your shoes I would push it all the way, and there's no way I would let the feds fob me off! At the end of the day the Police may say it's not in the public interest to pursue the driver, but they are duty bound to record it.
    "I spend my petrol money on Bikes, Beer, Pizza, and Donuts "

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/38256268@N04/3517156549/
  • rjh299
    rjh299 Posts: 721
    That might be worth pursuing a bit. I'll nip in my local sation tomorrow and see what they say. A police report number would be better than nothing at the very least. Spoke to the driver this evening and he's going to contact his insurance company so it's down to them now, as long as he does contact them. He seems an ok bloke but he did question if I had insurance for my bike in a way to imply that I should be insured.
  • FOAD
    FOAD Posts: 318
    Car vs bike RTC, no one injured!

    Even if plod had come to the scene the policy in most forces is to ensure both parties have exchanged details, check insurance details and licence of vehicles/drivers, make a pocket book entry and do one, though of course there would be a computer incident number generated and you would get that. Going to the nick now, you may get the latter if you ask them to creat an incident so you have a record that they are aware of the accident.

    Getting over excited about careless driving, the Police should have done this and that etc. gets you absolutely no where these days. If the guy is playing ball, let him play ball, if he starts to mess about, start looking to shaft him as best you can. If you can get a firm commitment from his insurance company within the first couple of days that they will take care of the bike, I would go with it.

    Just my opinion of course.
  • Ma coli
    Ma coli Posts: 25
    Get yourself to the doctors and get checked for any injuries pronto! If there appear to be none now, but some become apparent later, then you'll have the medical records to back up that they could be accident related.
    The bike can be easily replaced, but your joints/bones/ligaments etc. are a bit more difficult.
  • zedders
    zedders Posts: 509
    FOAD wrote:
    Car vs bike RTC, no one injured!

    Even if plod had come to the scene the policy in most forces is to ensure both parties have exchanged details, check insurance details and licence of vehicles/drivers, make a pocket book entry and do one, though of course there would be a computer incident number generated and you would get that. Going to the nick now, you may get the latter if you ask them to creat an incident so you have a record that they are aware of the accident.

    Getting over excited about careless driving, the Police should have done this and that etc. gets you absolutely no where these days. If the guy is playing ball, let him play ball, if he starts to mess about, start looking to shaft him as best you can. If you can get a firm commitment from his insurance company within the first couple of days that they will take care of the bike, I would go with it.

    Just my opinion of course.

    I'm not getting over excited about anything. Just stating facts. Whatever 'Force policy' is doesn't matter, they are duty bound to record the incident. & with a little tact the chap might be able to get a cop to talk to him. All to often people get fobbed off by the feds for all sorts of reasons, but ultimately those who make a compling arguement are more likely to have there case considered.
    From personal experience I can state sometimes the level of response you get will be down to the Officer. Some care, some don't. But that on it's own shouldn't be a reason not to try. Am not trying to get the driver done, but if the Police agree with you it will help your case?
    "I spend my petrol money on Bikes, Beer, Pizza, and Donuts "

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/38256268@N04/3517156549/
  • FOAD
    FOAD Posts: 318
    I think you will find that whatever is force policy does matter, and the plod are only duty bound to do what is expected of them by the force not the punter, anything beyond that is down to them.
  • Pross
    Pross Posts: 42,297
    Avon & Somerset's policy used to be to issue a caution for careless driving in any case they were notified of as I found out when some numpty pulled into my braking gap and jammed the brakes on causing me to rear end him. Police weren't called at the time (think with hindsight numpty had had a drink or two as I offered to call them and he turned me down), 6 months later I had a knock on the door from my local force and had to be interviewed under caution. Luckily I'd written everything down at the time but still got a caution!
  • rjh299
    rjh299 Posts: 721
    Update...
    Drivers not taking responsibility now. He said he was stopped. In middle of the friggin roundabout!
    Obviously the insurance company don't want to pay out so they're bound to try and get out of it. I've now got to get witness statements off the ambulance crew and then see a solicitor is probably best way to go now. Witness statements should be enough but it's just sh*t that the driver is trying to get out of it, and willing to lie to do it.

    If it ever happens again, i'm going straight to A&E and complaining of sore back and neck, so at least i've got some comeback if this again.
  • dru
    dru Posts: 1,341
    Speed Reading - What is the deal with House/Contents insurance? Aren't bikes covered on your policy upto a certain value as standard?

    With mine I know its £1500. ok, not the £3000 but if someone can walk scott free from that - how about claiming through your house insurance and get the LBS to requote at your maxmimum (assuming its less than the value of the bike?
  • I had to add my bikes as seperate items on my household insurance with the Halifax. And mine are £700 and £1800.
    Bianchi. There are no alternatives only compromises!
    I RIDE A KONA CADABRA -would you like to come and have a play with my magic link?
  • zedders
    zedders Posts: 509
    rjh299 wrote:
    Update...
    Drivers not taking responsibility now. He said he was stopped. In middle of the friggin roundabout!
    Obviously the insurance company don't want to pay out so they're bound to try and get out of it. I've now got to get witness statements off the ambulance crew and then see a solicitor is probably best way to go now. Witness statements should be enough but it's just sh*t that the driver is trying to get out of it, and willing to lie to do it.

    If it ever happens again, i'm going straight to A&E and complaining of sore back and neck, so at least i've got some comeback if this again.

    Really sorry this has happened to you. Am sure now you see why I said you have to go after him! People have no morals anymore and are more concerned with there pocket than anything else. In my recent accident the driver said I drove into him! I was conpletely stationary and he reversed straight into me! :shock:
    "I spend my petrol money on Bikes, Beer, Pizza, and Donuts "

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/38256268@N04/3517156549/
  • rjh299
    rjh299 Posts: 721
    Think my house insurance will pay up to £1500. So better than nothing obviously. Still think I should get pay out from this guy because of my witnesses, but insurance company will still try to get out of it.
    Morales are out the window, this guy could have seriously injured me but he's bitching about replacing my bike. I hate some people!
  • top_bhoy
    top_bhoy Posts: 1,424
    Sorry this has happened to you but its not surprising this turnaround by the driver. I again completely agree with Zedders - it sounds like we have had very similar experiences happen to us.
  • cougie
    cougie Posts: 22,512
    You really should have gone down the legal route asap as advised. Photos of all your injuries - both to you and the bike. I doubt the insurers have taken you seriously so far - I mean if you havent got legal help - can it have been that bad ?

    I cant see that your bike is a total write off though ? OK - lets say frame and forks and bars. As for the rest - buckled wheels can be sorted - your groupset should be ok too.
    Your kit may have been grazed slightly so you should be able to claim for that too.

    If you havent sorted it already - ring someone like Bikeline. They've done good work for mates of mine.

    Good luck with it and I hope the git loses his no claims.
  • xRichx
    xRichx Posts: 63
    rjh299 wrote:
    Update...
    Drivers not taking responsibility now. He said he was stopped. In middle of the friggin roundabout!
    Obviously the insurance company don't want to pay out so they're bound to try and get out of it. I've now got to get witness statements off the ambulance crew and then see a solicitor is probably best way to go now. Witness statements should be enough but it's just sh*t that the driver is trying to get out of it, and willing to lie to do it.

    Technically he shouldn't have pulled into the roundabout if he would be blocking traffic anyway (I'm not saying I believe his story, I can see that he probably did think "oh look a bike, I'll just nip out infront of him").

    You sound like you have a pretty decent amount of witnesses to back up that he id infact just pull straight out on you, altho did he hit you from the side, or did you hit the front arch and head over his bonnet from that? Technically, you should have been ready and able to stop if it's the second...

    It's also possibly his insurers trying to change his story, I've had a friend be in an accident where it was her fault, and her insurers basically changed the wording to say that part of the fault was at the other driver... It's all complete bollocks to be fair.
  • top_bhoy
    top_bhoy Posts: 1,424
    xRichx wrote:
    Technically, you should have been ready and able to stop if it's the second...

    I sincerely hope that you are not apportioning some blame onto the cyclist in such a scenario. You can be ready and able to stop as much as you want but when a speeding car comes flying from a roundabout or junction into your path, it is sometimes hard to react to - NO blame should be attached to the cyclist in such cases.

    Such situations are a peril for all cyclists and one reason why there are 'Give way' and 'Stop' road rules in place. The onus is on the road user entering the main traffic to be aware whats in front of them prior to entering.
  • rjh299
    rjh299 Posts: 721
    Maybe I should have got legal advice straightaway but not sure what differene it would have made at this stage, apart from look like I was proper serious. Which may of helped perhaps, dunno. I had no injuries so nothing to photograph and the damage looks like nothing. Small cracks in forks which you wouldn't pick up on a camera I think, buckled wheel but it's not at a right angle or anything so only notice when you spin it. Small graze on brake lever and that's pretty much it. Problem is unseen damage to carbon frame in head tube. Guy LBS just totaled up everything on my bike and came up with £3060 for replacement.
    I think insurance company are trying to get out of it, plus maybe driver aswell. So guess these witness statements are always going to be necessary. You've got to prove it was their fault not just say it.
    As for who's to blame... As I entered the roundabout, he pulled out from my left and literally left me nowhere to go. He may have been stopped when we collided but it was only a split second before contact. He should not be stopped on a roundabout anyway, but I could see his point if he was stopped there for a while then I came down the hill and just went into him, but that's not what happened. I hit his side panel but still don't think that puts me anywhere near responsible. Know what you mean xRichx but if you had seen it, it's so blatent I can't believe he's denying it!
  • xRichx
    xRichx Posts: 63
    Mate, I'm not trying to say that's not what happened, just saying what the insurance are going to put across in the case! Unfortunitely this happens way too much and decks everyone over because of it.

    Take my car accident last year, i'd pulled out of a parking space and reversed into the central car park road, stopped and was changing into 1st, when a lady reversed dead middle of my drivers side. Apparently because I cannot prove I was stationaryi could be partial to blame, now I was on the road and she wasn't looking where she was going even tho my car was in all three mirrors and taking up the whole of her rear window, I still am partial to blame... It's absolute tosh and they'll take any slight point that meansthey might have not been FULLY to blame and use it against you!

    Just like the "should have been able to stop in time"... Complete bollocks, but sadly that's the case with insurance!
  • xRichx
    xRichx Posts: 63
    Mate, I'm not trying to say that's not what happened, just saying what the insurance are going to put across in the case! Unfortunitely this happens way too much and decks everyone over because of it.

    Take my car accident last year, i'd pulled out of a parking space and reversed into the central car park road, stopped and was changing into 1st, when a lady reversed dead middle of my drivers side. Apparently because I cannot prove I was stationaryi could be partial to blame, now I was on the road and she wasn't looking where she was going even tho my car was in all three mirrors and taking up the whole of her rear window, I still am partial to blame... It's absolute tosh and they'll take any slight point that meansthey might have not been FULLY to blame and use it against you!

    Just like the "should have been able to stop in time"... Complete bollocks, but sadly that's the case with insurance!