Would a road bike be any quicker?
Comments
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Lou's Sirrus is as good as any road bike in the same price bracket. Without spending rather more on a road bike the only real advantage would be a better aerodynamic position and maybe better power transfer due to the position.Knobly tyres on a 12.5 kg heavy hybrid to 23 Race tyres on a modest 8 - 9kg Road bike - no comparison imho. And then there's Aerodynamics/Body Position. And then there's much better Hubs on more aerodynamic road wheels........ etc etc.
http://www.specialized.com/zz/en/bc/SBCBkModel.jsp?spid=45859&eid=4356&menuItemId=9265
Here is the 2010 version.
We confirmed she is a lady some time ago.0 -
Mettan wrote:oldwelshman wrote:How do you quantify this?
From personal experience, and hundreds of anecdotes across a wide variety of cycling forums - its an approximate guide/suggestion only.
Here's an example -
If Lou's currently doing a 14 avg over a rolling 45 miles on a Hybrid, she might find that on a road bike (when acclimatised) she manages a ~ 16 avg over the same course, in the same weather - it'd be highly unlikely imho for her to do a 12 or a 19 mph agv (in the same conditions ) - would you suggest otherwise ? - if so, what kind of figures? Of course, she might end up with a 15.3 avg or similar, but the suggestion still holds imo, and that is, she'll probably get a "nice boost" being on a Road bike and it might be in the region of ~ 2 mph over a sufficient distance and terrain (ie, not just going to the corner shop). The weight, aerodynamics (position), rolling resistance, wheel quality, Hub quality.... etc is much better (regards performance) on a typical roadie than a typical hybrid.
Knobly tyres on a 12.5 kg heavy hybrid to 23 Race tyres on a modest 8 - 9kg Road bike - no comparison imho. And then there's Aerodynamics/Body Position. And then there's much better Hubs on more aerodynamic road wheels........ etc etc.
I do agree with your sentiment OW re. training and fitness though - its vital.
(Lou - female/male?).
Most people who ride a road bike when new have usually aquired a higher level of fitness prior to getting the new bike so it appears the bike has given them the new found speed.
In my experience a lot of this is down to marketing, especially with higher end bikes.
You will never convince me all this top end stuff with £3k frames £2k wheel adds that much speeed to you rrides, I should now I have one
I will go out and od a ride, same route same conditions on different cost bikes with very little difference.
Granted the op will feel a boost as the bike will feel different, lighter also. Not sure the aero effect is hge at 13mph and also on flat notmuch differece. Bearing quality is going to be negligible if your trying to say better bearings have less friction, even the cheapest bearings are decent quality, maybe not as robust though.
I have been on fairly fast, ok fast rides where one or two came on mbikes and kept up with av speed 19mph on bobbly tyres
Anyway it is always a confidece boost to get a new bike just not convinced t will make you go that faster, but what do I know
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Thanks John ...
As you've all indicated, converting to a road bike (handlebars / shifters / tyres etc) is simply not going to cost effective - what about tri-bars?
Apart from trying not to fall off when getting arms in position, will these be of any benefit?
As an aside, on Sunday I'm doing a 21km mountain bike race (on a very cheap heavy mountain bike) ... gonna be interesting!
Once that's out of the way, I'm hoping to start seriously cycle-commuting again - at least twice a week which is 18km each way, which I hope to use as training to increase my speed!0 -
John.T wrote:
Lou's Sirrus is as good as any road bike in the same price bracket. Without spending rather more on a road bike the only real advantage would be a better aerodynamic position and maybe better power transfer due to the position.Knobly tyres on a 12.5 kg heavy hybrid to 23 Race tyres on a modest 8 - 9kg Road bike - no comparison imho. And then there's Aerodynamics/Body Position. And then there's much better Hubs on more aerodynamic road wheels........ etc etc.
http://www.specialized.com/zz/en/bc/SBCBkModel.jsp?spid=45859&eid=4356&menuItemId=9265
Here is the 2010 version.
We confirmed she is a lady some time ago.
In the context of performance? I'm skeptical - take another example - do you seriously think Dean Downing could keep up with the rest of the Premier calendar boys over 50 miles on that bike you've linked to ?? He'd get droped in the first 20 minutes (if not sooner). Equally, I'd suspect that'd apply to us in a Race, or Chaingang (possibly even a Club run) etc etc. I couldn't race on that Sirrius. I also suspect, that if you took a typical athletic gym rat and put them on a Hybrid over a rolling 50miles then on a Road bike (with 1 month acclimatisation to get used to a Roadie) over 50 miles, they'd be significantly quicker on the Road bike over 50 miles.
Nice bike for what it is, admitedly - I'm certainly not knocking hybrids (I enjoyed mine) - just suggesting that Road bikes perform better.... on the road). And its often the case that when people move from a Hybrid to a Road bike they get "something better" - and the wheels and tyres often get upgraded pretty quickly etc etc - all, in all, it usually adds up to a much nicer-performing package (relative to the previous hybrid).0 -
oldwelshman wrote:Mettan wrote:oldwelshman wrote:How do you quantify this?
From personal experience, and hundreds of anecdotes across a wide variety of cycling forums - its an approximate guide/suggestion only.
Here's an example -
If Lou's currently doing a 14 avg over a rolling 45 miles on a Hybrid, she might find that on a road bike (when acclimatised) she manages a ~ 16 avg over the same course, in the same weather - it'd be highly unlikely imho for her to do a 12 or a 19 mph agv (in the same conditions ) - would you suggest otherwise ? - if so, what kind of figures? Of course, she might end up with a 15.3 avg or similar, but the suggestion still holds imo, and that is, she'll probably get a "nice boost" being on a Road bike and it might be in the region of ~ 2 mph over a sufficient distance and terrain (ie, not just going to the corner shop). The weight, aerodynamics (position), rolling resistance, wheel quality, Hub quality.... etc is much better (regards performance) on a typical roadie than a typical hybrid.
Knobly tyres on a 12.5 kg heavy hybrid to 23 Race tyres on a modest 8 - 9kg Road bike - no comparison imho. And then there's Aerodynamics/Body Position. And then there's much better Hubs on more aerodynamic road wheels........ etc etc.
I do agree with your sentiment OW re. training and fitness though - its vital.
(Lou - female/male?).
Most people who ride a road bike when new have usually aquired a higher level of fitness prior to getting the new bike so it appears the bike has given them the new found speed. In my experience a lot of this is down to marketing, especially with higher end bikes.
You will never convince me all this top end stuff with £3k frames £2k wheel adds that much speeed to you rrides, I should now I have one
I will go out and od a ride, same route same conditions on different cost bikes with very little difference.
Granted the op will feel a boost as the bike will feel different, lighter also. Not sure the aero effect is hge at 13mph and also on flat notmuch differece. Bearing quality is going to be negligible if your trying to say better bearings have less friction, even the cheapest bearings are decent quality, maybe not as robust though.
I have been on fairly fast, ok fast rides where one or two came on mbikes and kept up with av speed 19mph on bobbly tyres
Anyway it is always a confidece boost to get a new bike just not convinced t will make you go that faster, but what do I know
That's your Track power OW - some good points in there though. 0 -
zummerzet-lou wrote:As you've all indicated, converting to a road bike (handlebars / shifters / tyres etc) is simply not going to cost effective - what about tri-bars?
Apart from trying not to fall off when getting arms in position, will these be of any benefit?
As an aside, on Sunday I'm doing a 21km mountain bike race (on a very cheap heavy mountain bike) ... gonna be interesting!
Once that's out of the way, I'm hoping to start seriously cycle-commuting again - at least twice a week which is 18km each way, which I hope to use as training to increase my speed!
If you're happy with what you've currently got Lou, stick with it, enjoy your riding and get fitter - but, similar to Doyler's sentiment, if you're going to get into Road riding more (in the future), personally, I think you'll see increased performance on a Road bike and you'll get more out of your road riding. Up to you though, many on here seem to have gone from a MTB/Hybrid to a Road bike over time. I certainly enjoyed getting fitter on both my MTB and Hybrid a couple of years ago before getting a Road bike - all good.0 -
Tri-bars are not good for group riding. You are too far from the brakes and can not change direction as quickly. By far the best gains are in improved fitness as this gives increased speed for the same effort in all circumstances. As I said earlier if you had a road bike of the same standard as the Sirrus any speed gain would be down to aerodynamics, which would depend greatly on how fast you are actually going, and the riding position which if set up right will enable you to use your power more effectively. Weight difference would be minimal and would only be noticeable on hills. That said, a lightweight carbon or scandium alu road bike is a joy to ride but they do cost more. See if one of the others will let you try their bike for a few miles to get some ideazummerzet-lou wrote:Thanks John ...
As you've all indicated, converting to a road bike (handlebars / shifters / tyres etc) is simply not going to cost effective - what about tri-bars?
Apart from trying not to fall off when getting arms in position, will these be of any benefit?
As an aside, on Sunday I'm doing a 21km mountain bike race (on a very cheap heavy mountain bike) ... gonna be interesting!
Once that's out of the way, I'm hoping to start seriously cycle-commuting again - at least twice a week which is 18km each way, which I hope to use as training to increase my speed!
Best of luck in your race.0 -
I say this without talking over the top of or disagreeing with the sound advice given by everyone, this is simply my experience of a cyclist who regularly switches between bikes.
For reference, my main bike is a carbon road bike (entry level), and a good MTB with Land Cruiser tyres for commuting when it's raining heavily or I fancy a change.
Even with semi slicks or super skinny tyres fitted to my MTB I can only get up to and maintain 15-16mph, and I find that hard to do over the same 10 mile road route as I take on my road bike. Where as I don't tend to ride any slower than that on my road bike and find it easier to do so which is as much to do with weight and riding position as it is simply tyres.
I'd say it is worth considering a new bike more dedicated to what you are talking about doing. No, it won't make up for fitness short falls, no it won't give you ability you don't already have. It will make it easier to start to ride faster, it will encourage you to ride faster and will likely break you out of comfort zones it is all too easy to get into.
I went through a similar 'get your ass in gear' change of mindset about two years ago after years of seemingly riding around with a pillow and blanket. However, the first key thing I did before changing bikes was start to measure my speed and heart rate and then start to make concious efforts to simply ride faster. When I reached the point where I felt I'd maxed out the speed I could get out my bike at the time but could sustain that speed for much longer than I ever could, only then did I make the switch and change to a dedicated road bike.
My two penneths worth.0 -
richardspooner wrote:I say this without talking over the top of or disagreeing with the sound advice given by everyone, this is simply my experience of a cyclist who regularly switches between bikes.
For reference, my main bike is a carbon road bike (entry level), and a good MTB with Land Cruiser tyres for commuting when it's raining heavily or I fancy a change.
Even with semi slicks or super skinny tyres fitted to my MTB I can only get up to and maintain 15-16mph, and I find that hard to do over the same 10 mile road route as I take on my road bike. Where as I don't tend to ride any slower than that on my road bike and find it easier to do so which is as much to do with weight and riding position as it is simply tyres.
I'd say it is worth considering a new bike more dedicated to what you are talking about doing. No, it won't make up for fitness short falls, no it won't give you ability you don't already have. It will make it easier to start to ride faster, it will encourage you to ride faster and will likely break you out of comfort zones it is all too easy to get into.
I went through a similar 'get your ass in gear' change of mindset about two years ago after years of seemingly riding around with a pillow and blanket. However, the first key thing I did before changing bikes was start to measure my speed and heart rate and then start to make concious efforts to simply ride faster. When I reached the point where I felt I'd maxed out the speed I could get out my bike at the time but could sustain that speed for much longer than I ever could, only then did I make the switch and change to a dedicated road bike.
My two penneths worth.
A Sirrus is not comparable to an MTB (even a slicked up one). It is basically a road frame with very upward sloping stem and flat bars. Think of it more like riding with your road bike with the stem and bit shorter (to give a more upright position) and a few inches higher (stem with a big upward slope to again reinforce the upright position) and then riding on the tops. That would a more comparable experience.
On my Sirrus I could average 16.5-17mph on my commute. I now average about 18-18.5mph and that includes fitness gains. I hit a top speed in excess of 34mph so its no slouch.
Wind is when you notice it more and that's as JohnT says aerodynamics ie lower riding position.0 -
The main reason I recommended that Lou did not fit drops etc to this bike is that it has a longer TT than a comparable road frame, in the case of my sons about 2.5 cm. This would be a problem to get a good setup, especially for a girl as they normaly need shorter bikes anyway. Cost is the other reason. Not that the frame does not warrant it.A Sirrus is not comparable to an MTB (even a slicked up one). It is basically a road frame with very upward sloping stem and flat bars. Think of it more like riding with your road bike with the stem and bit shorter (to give a more upright position) and a few inches higher (stem with a big upward slope to again reinforce the upright position) and then riding on the tops. That would a more comparable experience.0 -
I know what the Sirrus is!
I was offering the point of view of someone who has not too long ago been through the 'gotta get my ass in gear' and ended up getting the shock of my life riding with people on the dedicated road bikes asked about. Then going through the process of figuring out what steps to take next. Which for me, once I realised it was a fitness thing as much as anything a dedicated road racer was the logical next step once it was addressed.
I happen to agree with John in regards to not going down the route of compromising the setup of the Sirrus to try and turn it into something it isn't. If you can afford it buy the right bike and have it setup for the dedicated purpose because you get more out of it in the long run. But buy it knowing the underlying reasons for poor performances. That was my point as much as anything.0 -
I think what we are all getting at here is that you can never have too many bikes. I could do with something like the Sirrus to go into town on as my other bikes are not too much use for this. No shopping space and a hybrid is much easier in traffic. The garage is now full though so it will not happen.0
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John.T wrote:I think what we are all getting at here is that you can never have too many bikes.
Oh hell yeah!
Although as I commute daily I came out with the little gem to the missus 'my bikes are my cars, you realise that don't you', and she has had a markedly different attitude to my numerous bikes ever since. Didn't even throw me the token 'you dare' look when I mentioned CTW from work! Could be temporary though!0 -
To the OP, I would suggest getting a set of 23mm or 25mm tyres as suggested previously on the forum. These should be a relatively cheap upgrade that will be lighter and should help your speed a bit in the short term. You can keep the existing tyres for the winter.
Other than that stick with it, you will get faster as your fitness increases, and a couple of months down the road you will be able to decide better whether you enjoy it enough to invest in a road bike...0 -
I think the key questions here are 'how fit is okey-ish fit, and how much of that fitness did you get by cycling'. If your friends are keen cyclists then chances are they'll be a bit more than okey-ish fit. And if you're not a regular cyclist they'll also have a techniques tool-kit which you'll struggle to match.
Thing is, if you're on a Sirrus, and you optimise the set-up for fast road use, eg same tires as they're using, I suspect you're not going to get enough of a boost simply by moving to a slightly lighter drop-handlebar bike to allow you to keep up.
So you may need to work on your fitness a bit. But also talk to your friends about how they do it. Drafting (cycling as close as possible to the person in front) makes a huge difference: would they mind if you practiced doing that without taking your turn at the front for a few rides? How about hill-climbs? They're almost as much in the head as in the legs, so what goes through their minds? How much pain are they putting up with? What gears are they using (spinning or grinding?).
From my point of view, hill climbing is also where clipless pedals come into their own as you can apply more power by pulling up. You might not be able to sustain the effort for long, but if your friends are doing that up a short hill at full speed and you can't then you're dropped. And if you're relying on drafting to keep up, then you'll not rejoin them until they slow down!
Personally, I'd work on that first before sinking a lot on a new road bike and see if it's moving you in the right direction and you're enjoying it! But on the other hand, sinking a wodge of cash on a new bike might just give you the incentive to go for it!0 -
rhext wrote:I think the key questions here are 'how fit is okey-ish fit, and how much of that fitness did you get by cycling'. If your friends are keen cyclists then chances are they'll be a bit more than okey-ish fit. And if you're not a regular cyclist they'll also have a techniques tool-kit which you'll struggle to match.
Just what I was going to say! While not suggesting the OP isn't quite fit, long-ish road rides have their own kind of fitness demands and pacing requirements, so if that's not what your fitness is based on then you'll struggle.
Is it possible to flip the stem on the Sirrus for a slightly more aggressive/aero position?0 -
Well, it's been a couple of weeks so I thought I'd post an update,
I didn't go out with the group of ladies last week, and the week prior it was cancelled. Rather than twiddle my thumbs, I've been out for a few solo rides - included some commutes to work which are "almost" free time ... Takes 20 mins in the car, and about 45 mins on my bike!
Been trying to concentrate on keeping my cadence up (lower gears, but more pedalling?), and a few stretches thinking about the upstrokes rather than down. Not tried the intervals yet, but might try those on my next commute.
So, last night was my first ride with the roadies for ages ... Set off well, determined to keep up and mostly managed. It was quite windy, and knew I had to keep up or would really struggle battling the wind alone.
Ride was about 1hr 40, and for the first hour or so I was doing great. Then I eased off for a breather and a few glugs of water and that was it .. I just couldn't catch them up again, and they seemed to pull further away. That, and by then I was out of oompphh so I just took the rest of the ride at my pace, but they did hold back to make sure I was going the right way etc.
So the moral?
Don't slow down to drink!
and, as much as I'd love one, I don't actually *need* a new bike .. no harm in looking tho ;-) (Speaking of which, LBS tried to sell me a 2009 GIANT ... carbon everything apart from the lower part of the frame .. only $2000! Think I'd have to sell my car to justify that one)0 -
In a similiar position, bought my first bike early this year (Sirrus pro) and love it but am now thinking of trying a road bike to see if it would make any difference.
Cycle with a couple of mates who have road bikes and have cycled for years and I am no slower-sometimes faster. This is probably as a result of many years hillwalking!
I do like the upright riding position of the Sirrus but do fancy blowing some cash on something racy, the only problem is I did try a mates road bike recently and had a sore back after 5 minutes!.
have to try one in my size.0 -
zummerzet-lou wrote:Well, it's been a couple of weeks so I thought I'd post an update,
I didn't go out with the group of ladies last week, and the week prior it was cancelled. Rather than twiddle my thumbs, I've been out for a few solo rides - included some commutes to work which are "almost" free time ... Takes 20 mins in the car, and about 45 mins on my bike!
Been trying to concentrate on keeping my cadence up (lower gears, but more pedalling?), and a few stretches thinking about the upstrokes rather than down. Not tried the intervals yet, but might try those on my next commute.
So, last night was my first ride with the roadies for ages ... Set off well, determined to keep up and mostly managed. It was quite windy, and knew I had to keep up or would really struggle battling the wind alone.
Ride was about 1hr 40, and for the first hour or so I was doing great. Then I eased off for a breather and a few glugs of water and that was it .. I just couldn't catch them up again, and they seemed to pull further away. That, and by then I was out of oompphh so I just took the rest of the ride at my pace, but they did hold back to make sure I was going the right way etc.
So the moral?
Don't slow down to drink!
and, as much as I'd love one, I don't actually *need* a new bike .. no harm in looking tho ;-) (Speaking of which, LBS tried to sell me a 2009 GIANT ... carbon everything apart from the lower part of the frame .. only $2000! Think I'd have to sell my car to justify that one)
It'll make 'Le Race' better for you though "There's a shortage of perfect breasts in this world, t'would be a pity to damage yours."0 -
and, as much as I'd love one, I don't actually *need* a new bike .. no harm in looking tho (Speaking of which, LBS tried to sell me a 2009 GIANT ... carbon everything apart from the lower part of the frame .. only $2000! Think I'd have to sell my car to justify that one)
Need and justify are 2 words which you need to cut from your vocabulary when talking about bikes and buying bikes.
When concerning bike and accessories to a partner, you have to employ tact, lise, sneakiness and an elaborate truth/economisation of price. easy.
Happy trails.0 -
It'll make 'Le Race' better for you though Wink
Crikey .... even thinking about Le Race has me knackered! Don't think I'd make it up the first hill at the moment (even on the worlds most expensive road bike!)0
