Upgrade hardtail MTB for road use. Help

giantsasquatch

I have Klein Pulse(97-98 pretty sure) which ia a hardtail MTB, with aluminium frame which is as good as new, and being light and stiff for me. I can only find the spec online of the 'Klein Pulse Comp', not mine. Anyways i like to upgrade it and make it as good and light as possible, for road use and training. I am heavy rider over 18 stone, so it be ideal(strong wheels) for getting fitter and losing weight ready for a road bike later on.

I have a few ideas how to make the bike lighter, such as upgrading the forks to rigid carbon and the wheels,handlebar,seatpost.

I would really appreciate some help and advice on what compatible parts to get and have a few questions.

The wheels feel like they weigh 4lbs+. What lighter MTB wheels could i get, that would make a difference?

I like to keep the cost down but want carbon forks. I not sure whether to get hybrid forks, compatible with the vbrakes or get road forks and replace the brake and lever to road to get lighter still.

I know Klein use there own BB which is different than others and it is glued in. I fear i cannot use a new modern crankset as the BB is different and cannot be upgraded. One time the BB came loose and i sent it to a reputable LBS. The BB frame thread had worn as i understood it, and they didn't have a BB big enough. They managed to find a suitable BB and had to glue it in.

I also like to upgrade the chainrings to 50/34 or 53/39 for road gear ratios. I also like to put on a better lighter cassette and crankset. I thought if i still keep as original 7 speed but upgrade to a lighter better cassette, then i can keep the cost down better, also keeping the original SRAM shifters.

Daz555

giantsasquatch wrote:

Anyways i like to upgrade it and make it as good and light as possible, for road use and training. I am heavy rider over 18 stone, so it be ideal(strong wheels) for getting fitter and losing weight ready for a road bike later on.

I have a few ideas how to make the bike lighter, such as upgrading the forks to rigid carbon and the wheels,handlebar,seatpost.

If getting fitter and losing weight are priorities, then why worry about the weight of this bike at all? Save your money for when you upgrade to a proper road bike.

supersonic

Strong wheels are generally heavier - need to know what you have really. Also be aware that some carbon forks have weight limits.

Does the bottom bracket shell not have threads then?

ride_whenever

As above, except for:

buy some slick tyres, they'll make a huge difference, maybe fit a larger big ring and set it to only use that, but spinning an easy gear (higher rpm) is generally better for your cv fitness and knees!

Then save up for a proper road bike *spits* as a mtb will always be slower than a equal quality mtb with the same rider on the roads.

giantsasquatch

Daz555 wrote:

If getting fitter and losing weight are priorities, then why worry about the weight of this bike at all? Save your money for when you upgrade to a proper road bike.

I have in mind to get a decent road bike later when i dropped the weight alot. If i got now, i know the wheels wouldn't be strong enough for my weight and abuse, so would be dangerous and costy, so i think bad idea. I enjoy the MTB ride and it also make good extra bike for winter training. The forks will raise the handlebars and am also considring a riser stem to rise it further, if need be.

ride_whenever

How do you know the wheels wont be strong enough?

If you raise the front end, you'll go slower, work on flexibility and core strength instead, it'll pay dividends when you get a roadie.

giantsasquatch

ride_whenever wrote:

How do you know the wheels wont be strong enough?

If you raise the front end, you'll go slower, work on flexibility and core strength instead, it'll pay dividends when you get a roadie.

I hear you need 32 or more spokes for strength and very heavy riders, which you don't get on a decent competition bike. I am quite happy to upgrade the MTB in the meantime and then keep it for indoor training and winter. Ok so the geometry is different, but it still be fast and light and a decent ride. I not bothered about drop bars for it. I understand i be sat upright, with alittle more wind resistance but it will put an end to the pain of my arms aching from overreaching which is a better thing.

supersonic

They do build into stronger wheels, yes, but many heavier road riders use less. Good build is important.

18 stone is heavy, but there are heavier riders! We have some 25 stone people on these forums ;-)

giantsasquatch

supersonic wrote:

Strong wheels are generally heavier - need to know what you have really. Also be aware that some carbon forks have weight limits.

Does the bottom bracket shell not have threads then?

Right, the back wheel is Maverick X 517 but don't know the hubs. The front says Maverick ERD 542. they are really strong, spokes tight and have taken 10 years of abuse.

I plan to upgrade the heavy suspension forks first, and should notice a big difference. I thought if i get, monocoque construction, it be really strong. and match the 1 1/8 threadless steerer tube, which i seen at a good price.

supersonic

Mavic 517 are classic XC rims, and very good - the wheels sound perfect to be honest, I see no point in upgrading. But I would get the best tyres yo can afford.

Many carbon forks are built for very light weight, and have rider weight limits. You will need to check out individual models for exact info.

giantsasquatch

supersonic wrote:

Does the bottom bracket shell not have threads then?

The BB thread on the frame has worn away, as the BB had came slightly loose and due to recent riding wore it away, from i understood it from the LBS explanation. After they glued it in with epoxy glue, I later thought, could they not of made a new thread(frame aluminium though). Maybe they didn't have the right tool. I recently read a old forum comment that Klein used loctite to glue there BB in anyway.

I hoped to put new modern external BB on, am i dreaming? If i can't replace the crank, i can fit bigger chainrings right?

ride_whenever

You can fit threadless bottom brackets (IIRC square taper only and pretty hard to find, but one of the distributors do sell one, i think moore and large, ask your lbs) Basically slightly tapered and screw to themselves across the shell rather than into the shell.

Or just fit a bigger ring, you need the number of bolts and BCD.

giantsasquatch

ride_whenever wrote:

buy some slick tyres, they'll make a huge difference, maybe fit a larger big ring and set it to only use that, but spinning an easy gear (higher rpm) is generally better for your cv fitness and knees!

Then save up for a proper road bike *spits* as a mtb will always be slower than a equal quality mtb with the same rider on the roads.

supersonic wrote:

Mavic 517 are classic XC rims, and very good - the wheels sound perfect to be honest, I see no point in upgrading. But I would get the best tyres yo can afford.

Many carbon forks are built for very light weight, and have rider weight limits. You will need to check out individual models for exact info.

Nice to know. Sounds like upgrading the wheels be small potatoes. Once i upgrade the forks, i might feel, it not worth it right.

I am already using 1.75 slicks. I have recently upgraded the slicks to Panaracer Pasela Tourguard 1.25 hoping they make a even better difference. Not tested yet. They sure are thin. I really wanted Continental Sport Contact but they not have them. I am keen to make the bike lighter. I know what your thinking, just get a 2nd hand road bike etc. but i am attached to the frame :?

giantsasquatch

I had mad idea to upgrade to 700C wheels but i reading technical docs, smaller wheels in fact roll better. So i thought going thinner and still use MTB wheels, be superior.

giantsasquatch

ride_whenever wrote:

maybe fit a larger big ring and set it to only use that, but spinning an easy gear (higher rpm) is generally better for your cv fitness and knees! .

I am spinning high now, due to better fitness. I now finding a need higher ratios even when spinning 85+. I much prefer bigger rings. I am using less and less of the gears and the granny ring is just needless weight.

Thanks to all for the help so far.

giantsasquatch

ride_whenever wrote:

You can fit threadless bottom brackets (IIRC square taper only and pretty hard to find, but one of the distributors do sell one, i think moore and large, ask your lbs) Basically slightly tapered and screw to themselves across the shell rather than into the shell.

Or just fit a bigger ring, you need the number of bolts and BCD.

Thanks for that. At the time i thought of a threadless BB but i remember them saying they don't have one big enough, Was older Klein BB frame hole alot bigger than on modern frames now? Or is it they just didn't have one in stock or available, do you think? They are reputable LBS that make there own frames so i assumed they could do anything. I was surprised. Some major modification is needed perhaps.

ride_whenever

hmm, you could probably ream it a little bit at an engineering works and fit some cartridge bearings with an ID suitable for an external crankset.

giantsasquatch

If anybody interested to help me. i found info on the Klein BB including 96 model which might even be mine with a similar problem. There is links to the technical manual with info and pic of the BB. Maybe you can straightaway see how it differs and a simple solution. I am not modern BB savvy as i only recently returned to cycling from long time ago. Thanks.

http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/index ... 13940.html

I am thinking now that LBS has glued the BB with epoxy glue. Will it be possible to get it out without damaging the frame? :shock: or can it just be drilled out.

giantsasquatch

ride_whenever wrote:

hmm, you could probably ream it a little bit at an engineering works and fit some cartridge bearings with an ID suitable for an external crankset.

Thanks, i do that if i have to do, but only as a last resort. I look into the threadless bottom bracket first.

supersonic

giantsasquatch wrote:

If anybody interested to help me. i found info on the Klein BB including 96 model which might even be mine with a similar problem. There is links to the technical manual with info and pic of the BB. Maybe you can straightaway see how it differs and a simple solution. I am not modern BB savvy as i only recently returned to cycling from long time ago. Thanks.

http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/index ... 13940.html

I am thinking now that LBS has glued the BB with epoxy glue. Will it be possible to get it out without damaging the frame? :shock: or can it just be drilled out.

I think that thread covers all the bases to be honest. You maybe able to fit new bearings to your system.

giantsasquatch

Well it sounds all routine, in the hands of the right people. I contact the shop again and see what they say and tell them what i know. Failing that i take it to a specialist MTB shop. Failing that i follow your advice. Excuse my ignorance, but I not sure how new bearings will help me if the thread has gone or i need them anyway.

giantsasquatch

It seems the weight of decentish wheels is around a lb each. If i can knock off 3lb or more total, it be worth it. Plus I end up with better hubs, which from reading comments can make a difference. The rear wheel with the cassette feels awfully heavy. I heard of crosswinds as good wheels. Any suggestions on which lighter Mavic wheels to get?

My thinking is, lighter MTB wheels will still be strong for my weight, due to stronger materials used for MTB'ing. Or is it a case of stick with what i got, as they don't make them like they used to :?.

I understand it not good to make it unbalanced, too light for heavy rider.

giantsasquatch

I remember more about the BB. They used a smaller BB and said only way to fit it, was to pack it with glue to fit: It sounded desperate solution or the only solution. I not qualified to judge. Feeling I had little choice at the time, it went ahead. It all works good and aligned 100% and done lots of miles and still fine. You can't tell the difference. Is the frame a right off, if i want to swap it though?

Reading that thread it sounds more like my Klein is 97 or 98 Pulse II as i first believed, half remember.

giantsasquatch

Anyways for now, i replace with a 50/34 double chain ring and make do with the crank. Just hope i don't have clearance issues with the chainstay. Will i definately need to get a new front road mech as well, compatible with the chainrings? I can't find one for 7 speed. It is SRAM with SRAM twist shifters.

I will measure my BCD.

alfablue

giantsasquatch wrote:

I am already using 1.75 slicks. I have recently upgraded the slicks to Panaracer Pasela Tourguard 1.25 hoping they make a even better difference. Not tested yet. They sure are thin. I really wanted Continental Sport Contact but they not have them.

The conti's wear fast and puncture often. I used 26x1.0 Specialized All Conditions on my mtb commuter - fast, good wear, zero punctures.

(It was a Rock Lobster Ti frame, swapped the rockshox SIDs for Kona Project II triple butted, fitted mudguards and rack, flipped stem (lower) - made a good fast commuter for a 28 mile round trip).

.blitz

giantsasquatch wrote:

My thinking is, lighter MTB wheels will still be strong for my weight, due to stronger materials used for MTB'ing. Or is it a case of stick with what i got, as they don't make them like they used to :?.

They make them better than they used to. All safety-critical MTB components have to conform to EN14766, and wheels have to withstand a sideways force of over 80 lbs on the rim for 1 minute without any damage.

supersonic

Lightish wheels are more than a pound each! A light set is more like 4lbs for the pair, bare.

Superlight wheels are 3lbs for a pair.

As I said earlier, your Mavic 517 rims are very light. Does depend what hubs you have, but to get much lighter I am guessing you are going to have to spend 100s of pounds.

You said yourself they are strong, true and reliable ;-)

giantsasquatch

Thanks for the help.

@supersonic
Got you. i keep the wheels.

I meant not counting the skewers, tyres and tubes. for example. 1080g
http://www.allterraincycles.co.uk/product/107435.html
sorry i was thinking 1000g was 1lb when it not.

I didn't know but you can get modern cranksets for older square taper BB, so i make do with the BB http://www.jejamescycles.co.uk/fsa-vero ... 37764.html and upgrade the crankset. i can then use a compact crankset compatible for 7 speed if i can find one, and swap the front mech for a double. the BB is 110mm.

depending on the make, getting a crankset can be cheaper than getting the chainrings.