I hate pedestrians!!

13

Comments

  • snailracer
    snailracer Posts: 968
    edited October 2009
    Headhuunter wrote:
    Sicknote wrote:
    snailracer wrote:
    Headhuunter wrote:

    I haven't posted any facts, all I have said is that I have collided with 3-4 peds in as many years in Central London. From this information you have surmised that I am "clumsy". You making this conclusion leads me to the conclusion that you must be a bit "stupid". But then again I haven't based this on any solid information and have never met you.

    No facts? Did you just make up those numbers, then? If you were a car driver with that record, you would be almost uninsurable, regardless of whose "fault" it was in each situation. Call me stupid if you want to, but I'm not the one picking myself up off the ground with torn clothing and bruises.
    Headhuunter wrote:
    I wish you the best of luck in your cycling, however it would ironic is someone walked out on you tomorrow without warning, knocking you off, or worse a car pulls out into the side of you froM a side road, or pulls out of a parking space without looking. There will be little you can do in these situations as there has been little I can do when a ditzy ped walks out from behind a white van whilst writing a text, but as I say, good luck....

    I anticipate and avoid just about every one of these situations on every commute by observation, safe road positioning and speed. I haven't had a single incident with a ped since the 80's, when I was a reckless teen. Most accidents are entirely avoidable. I wish you luck, also.

    What about the ones that are not?

    My sister use use to get hit a lot my other drivers including a bus ( which she had to stop in front of to get him to stop ).
    Yes you are right in saying most accident are avoidable but some people are unlucky to get in more than others, that does not just by the numbers make them bad drivers but I guess the way you seen it, it does!

    I had a woman hit me in my car as she changed lanes with no use of her indicator, so that would have been me fault for not knowing or seeing that she was going to do that?

    Which it seems is what you are saying or have I got it wrong somewhere?

    Exactly, most accidents are unavoidable, but some are not. I bike 100-120 miles per week, mostly through London traffic in all weather conditions, 3-4 crashes with peds who step out before looking is hardly a high percentage!

    Dude, you didn't even read what your own fanboi wrote.
  • Headhuunter
    Headhuunter Posts: 6,494
    snailracer wrote:
    Headhuunter wrote:
    Sicknote wrote:
    snailracer wrote:
    Headhuunter wrote:

    I haven't posted any facts, all I have said is that I have collided with 3-4 peds in as many years in Central London. From this information you have surmised that I am "clumsy". You making this conclusion leads me to the conclusion that you must be a bit "stupid". But then again I haven't based this on any solid information and have never met you.

    No facts? Did you just make up those numbers, then? If you were a car driver with that record, you would be almost uninsurable, regardless of whose "fault" it was in each situation. Call me stupid if you want to, but I'm not the one picking myself up off the ground with torn clothing and bruises.
    Headhuunter wrote:
    I wish you the best of luck in your cycling, however it would ironic is someone walked out on you tomorrow without warning, knocking you off, or worse a car pulls out into the side of you froM a side road, or pulls out of a parking space without looking. There will be little you can do in these situations as there has been little I can do when a ditzy ped walks out from behind a white van whilst writing a text, but as I say, good luck....

    I anticipate and avoid just about every one of these situations on every commute by observation, safe road positioning and speed. I haven't had a single incident with a ped since the 80's, when I was a reckless teen. Most accidents are entirely avoidable. I wish you luck, also.

    What about the ones that are not?

    My sister use use to get hit a lot my other drivers including a bus ( which she had to stop in front of to get him to stop ).
    Yes you are right in saying most accident are avoidable but some people are unlucky to get in more than others, that does not just by the numbers make them bad drivers but I guess the way you seen it, it does!

    I had a woman hit me in my car as she changed lanes with no use of her indicator, so that would have been me fault for not knowing or seeing that she was going to do that?

    Which it seems is what you are saying or have I got it wrong somewhere?

    Exactly, most accidents are unavoidable, but some are not. I bike 100-120 miles per week, mostly through London traffic in all weather conditions, 3-4 crashes with peds who step out before looking is hardly a high percentage!

    Dude, you didn't even read what you're own fanboi wrote.

    Whatever, I mean most accidents are AVOIDABLE..... Pedantic as well....
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  • daviesee
    daviesee Posts: 6,386
    I feel as if I am back at school and there is a bunch marching towards the gates shouting "fight, fight, fight..........." :evil:
    Or, it may just be me :wink:

    Chill out dudes.........
    None of the above should be taken seriously, and certainly not personally.
  • sicknote
    sicknote Posts: 901
    snailracer

    So because I dont agree with you I am a fanboy, do us a favor a grow up and up the handbag away.

    Like talking to a childish brick wall so I am done before you do pi$$ me off.

    So good luck and hope still go through life with your head clearly where the sun dont shine.
  • kingmho
    kingmho Posts: 37
    Headhuunter wrote:
    ... Your conclusion is as bad as non cyclists conclusions that "all" cyclists are lycra louts, jump reds and try to mow down peds. That's why I call you stupid. If I were a motorist with those statistics then, yes, I may be uninsurable, but cycling through heavy traffic, filtering past stationary vans, lorries etc is a completely different experience. I also drive and I hasten to add I have never it a ped in my car...
    Are you saying that you are more likely to hit pedestrians when riding a bike than when driving a clumsy, half-blind car, and that's acceptable to you? :?
    Is it then any wonder that pedestrians hold such a negative opinion of us cyclists?
  • northstar
    northstar Posts: 407
    Are you saying that you are more likely to hit pedestrians when riding a bike than when driving a clumsy, half-blind car, and that's acceptable to you? Broken Image: Confused

    From my experiences pedestrians don't seem to look out for cyclists as they do cars, as demonistrated perfectly today who stepped out in front of me without looking because she was near but not on a crossing :?

    Luckily I had my hand over my brakes at the time I was able stop in time.
    Training is like fighting with a gorilla. You don’t stop when you’re tired. You stop when the gorilla is tired.
  • kingmho
    kingmho Posts: 37
    northstar wrote:
    Are you saying that you are more likely to hit pedestrians when riding a bike than when driving a clumsy, half-blind car, and that's acceptable to you? Broken Image: Confused

    From my experiences pedestrians don't seem to look out for cyclists as they do cars, as demonistrated perfectly today who stepped out in front of me without looking because she was near but not on a crossing :?

    Luckily I had my hand over my brakes at the time I was able stop in time.
    True, lots of peds do that. I will expect they'll stop doing that when electric cars become more commonplace :twisted:
  • kingmho
    kingmho Posts: 37
    "Fanboy", "clumsy" and "stupid" :!:
    It appears we are in rather more polite company than I encounter on my commute :)
  • snailracer
    snailracer Posts: 968
    kingmho wrote:
    "Fanboy", "clumsy" and "stupid" :!:
    It appears we are in rather more polite company than I encounter on my commute :)

    The posters I so gravely insulted used the terms "ditzy", "muppets" ,"lemmings", "childish" and "stupid" about me or other road users whose behaviour they did not approve of. At least I did not escalate the potency of insults used in this thread.
  • El Diego
    El Diego Posts: 440
    Pedestrians are less likely to look for cyclists as cars because the consequences of being hit by a car generally exceed colliding with a bike. Bikes are also pretty silent in comparison.

    I know longer worry about this problem since installing a lance on my bike.
  • prj45
    prj45 Posts: 2,208
    Headhuunter wrote:
    Actually the times I've hit peds have never been near buses, it's always been people suddenly emerging from behind a van or something...

    This is v strange, I've been riding in London for 15 years (latterly 120 miles a week) and I've never ridden into a pedestrian, despite many stepping out in front of me.

    What are you doing that I'm not?
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  • prj45
    prj45 Posts: 2,208
    Stav83 wrote:
    Still, as above, people move (well, jump) out of the way pretty quickly!

    James Martin recently got pillored for suggesting he enjoyed scaring people with his very loud horn.
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  • sicknote
    sicknote Posts: 901
    snailracer wrote:
    kingmho wrote:
    "Fanboy", "clumsy" and "stupid" :!:
    It appears we are in rather more polite company than I encounter on my commute :)

    The posters I so gravely insulted used the terms "ditzy", "muppets" ,"lemmings", "childish" and "stupid" about me or other road users whose behaviour they did not approve of. At least I did not escalate the potency of insults used in this thread.

    snailracer

    Do you walk out in traffic without looking because these two words were used to describe peds that walk out into traffic out looking but if I have it wrong can you show us where this was used about you.
  • snailracer
    snailracer Posts: 968
    Sicknote wrote:
    snailracer wrote:
    kingmho wrote:
    "Fanboy", "clumsy" and "stupid" :!:
    It appears we are in rather more polite company than I encounter on my commute :)

    The posters I so gravely insulted used the terms "ditzy", "muppets" ,"lemmings", "childish" and "stupid" about me or other road users whose behaviour they did not approve of. At least I did not escalate the potency of insults used in this thread.

    snailracer

    Do you walk out in traffic without looking because these two words were used to describe peds that walk out into traffic out looking but if I have it wrong can you show us where this was used about you.
    Did you even read it right?
  • snailracer
    snailracer Posts: 968
    Sicknote wrote:
    snailracer

    So because I dont agree with you I am a fanboy, do us a favor a grow up and up the handbag away.

    Like talking to a childish brick wall so I am done before you do pi$$ me off.

    So good luck and hope still go through life with your head clearly where the sun dont shine.

    Sicknote, I think the only on-topic reply I gave to you was as follows...
    snailracer wrote:
    Sicknote wrote:
    snailracer wrote:
    Headhuunter wrote:
    All I'm saying is that IME hitting peds has been unavoidable, just as you bump into people whilst walking through the streets or in the Tube etc when people aren't watching where they're going.

    Well, unavoidable if you're clumsy.

    snailracer and all the others that are having a go at Headhuuter.

    So you have seen what happened do you?
    Its the same if someone walks out in front of a car without looking....

    Well, did Headhuunter post a video to back up his version of events?? Replies are posted based on what has been written. Only Headhuunter knows for sure what actually happened, respondants are entitled to disagree with his interpretation of the events as reported.

    Apologies if I pi55ed anyone off.

    ...which I think was quite civil. I haven't had an argument with you, I don't know why you think I have. I haven't responded to your numerous other postings because I neither really agreed nor disagreed with them. And I apologise for calling you a fanboi.
  • Headhuunter
    Headhuunter Posts: 6,494
    kingmho wrote:
    Headhuunter wrote:
    ... Your conclusion is as bad as non cyclists conclusions that "all" cyclists are lycra louts, jump reds and try to mow down peds. That's why I call you stupid. If I were a motorist with those statistics then, yes, I may be uninsurable, but cycling through heavy traffic, filtering past stationary vans, lorries etc is a completely different experience. I also drive and I hasten to add I have never it a ped in my car...
    Are you saying that you are more likely to hit pedestrians when riding a bike than when driving a clumsy, half-blind car, and that's acceptable to you? :?
    Is it then any wonder that pedestrians hold such a negative opinion of us cyclists?

    No. What I'm saying is that when motor traffic builds up and ends up stationary/gridlocked, cyclists are legally allowed to CAREFULLY (let's get that out of the way), filter through traffic. Cars do not filter through stationary traffic, they sit in it. Unfortunately peds see a traffic jam and sometimes (only sometimes, as I mentioned earlier, most London peds are good at checking now that there are so many cyclists on the roads), step off the pavement into the road without looking. Collisions are even more likely if you're filtering up the centre of the road as peds usually walk out from 1 lane of traffic and emerge looking in the opposite direction.

    I don't believe all of you commute in London if you do not realise this. OK, you may not have hit a ped, but no regular cyclist in London rush hour can be unaware that peds do this.

    And at what point did I actually say it was acceptable to hit peds??!
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  • Headhuunter
    Headhuunter Posts: 6,494
    snailracer wrote:
    kingmho wrote:
    "Fanboy", "clumsy" and "stupid" :!:
    It appears we are in rather more polite company than I encounter on my commute :)

    The posters I so gravely insulted used the terms "ditzy", "muppets" ,"lemmings", "childish" and "stupid" about me or other road users whose behaviour they did not approve of. At least I did not escalate the potency of insults used in this thread.

    I called you stupid. You called me clumsy. I concluded that you must be a bit stupid for coming to the conclusion that I was clumsy without knowing any facts about anything. Don't know where childish came from. Those other words were used to describe loony peds who walk into the road without looking.
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  • jedster
    jedster Posts: 1,717
    Headhunter,
    No. What I'm saying is that when motor traffic builds up and ends up stationary/gridlocked, cyclists are legally allowed to CAREFULLY (let's get that out of the way), filter through traffic. Cars do not filter through stationary traffic, they sit in it. Unfortunately peds see a traffic jam and sometimes (only sometimes, as I mentioned earlier, most London peds are good at checking now that there are so many cyclists on the roads), step off the pavement into the road without looking.

    Several posters on this thread also cycle n those conditions most days and have a much better record of avoiding pedestrians than you. It is possible that you have been VERY unlucky (because no doubt some incidents are truly unavoidable - very few though IMO). It is much more likely, in my opinion, that you use a different interpretation of the word "CAREFULLY" than some of the rest of us.

    Cheers
  • Headhuunter
    Headhuunter Posts: 6,494
    jedster wrote:
    Headhunter,
    No. What I'm saying is that when motor traffic builds up and ends up stationary/gridlocked, cyclists are legally allowed to CAREFULLY (let's get that out of the way), filter through traffic. Cars do not filter through stationary traffic, they sit in it. Unfortunately peds see a traffic jam and sometimes (only sometimes, as I mentioned earlier, most London peds are good at checking now that there are so many cyclists on the roads), step off the pavement into the road without looking.

    Several posters on this thread also cycle n those conditions most days and have a much better record of avoiding pedestrians than you. It is possible that you have been VERY unlucky (because no doubt some incidents are truly unavoidable - very few though IMO). It is much more likely, in my opinion, that you use a different interpretation of the word "CAREFULLY" than some of the rest of us.

    Cheers

    Someone else assuming without any information. You and Snailracer seem to be the James Martins of the cycling world. You come to amazing conclusions without having met me or knowing anything about the situation. :roll: :roll:
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  • jedster
    jedster Posts: 1,717
    Headhunter,

    reread my post - I'm not "assuming" anything I'm talking about probabilities given the stated facts. As I point out, it is possible that you have just been unlucky but based on the stated facts this is not the most likely interpretation.

    What exactly is amazing about what I have written?

    And please explain how I am similar to James Martin - I can't see the parallel.

    Cheers,
    J
  • Headhuunter
    Headhuunter Posts: 6,494
    "It is much more likely, in my opinion, that you use a different interpretation of the word "CAREFULLY" than some of the rest of us."

    There's the assumption. Made fact free and without knowing anything. Perhaps James Martin is not the most logical comparison but he and many other motorists have made many assumptions about cyclists, just as you do here.
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  • cjw
    cjw Posts: 1,889
    Headhunter,

    Got to say I came to a similar conclusion (actually a little broader refering to your family (sorry)!) based on your stats and statements.

    1. Approx one cycle collision per year with a ped
    2. Bump into peds in London whilst walking
    3. Sister used to get hit a lot by other drivers

    I concluded you were either a very unlucky family or very unobservant.
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  • kingmho
    kingmho Posts: 37
    Headhuunter wrote:
    "It is much more likely, in my opinion, that you use a different interpretation of the word "CAREFULLY" than some of the rest of us."

    There's the assumption. Made fact free and without knowing anything. Perhaps James Martin is not the most logical comparison but he and many other motorists have made many assumptions about cyclists, just as you do here.
    Surely, no two people will have exactly the same subjective judgement for what CAREFUL means :?:
    Which means, objectively, that some people will be more careful than others :?
  • Skippy2309
    Skippy2309 Posts: 426
    I have to admit I have hit a few people, out of the 6 times 5 were saying sorry and very apologetic, the 1 in 6 was not an impact it was me nigh on crashing and going over the handle bars as a woman pushed a pram out into the road through a group of people waiting to cross a road!!! wasnt a nice or fun experience, in her opinion it was my fault even tho she forced the pram into my path right in front of me.

    all the other times are similar things where people just step or in one case run straight into the road, now if I have space I go further across the road to avoid people as most are not the sharpest and step out then look.
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  • Headhuunter
    Headhuunter Posts: 6,494
    kingmho wrote:
    Headhuunter wrote:
    "It is much more likely, in my opinion, that you use a different interpretation of the word "CAREFULLY" than some of the rest of us."

    There's the assumption. Made fact free and without knowing anything. Perhaps James Martin is not the most logical comparison but he and many other motorists have made many assumptions about cyclists, just as you do here.
    Surely, no two people will have exactly the same subjective judgement for what CAREFUL means :?:
    Which means, objectively, that some people will be more careful than others :?

    This is true, but it doesn't change the fact that Jedster (and others) have made an assumption not based on facts about my riding style and ability and behaviour of peds that I have had the misfortune to run into. Whether or not my perception of "careful" is different to theirs they have still assumed that I am at fault and the peds completely innocent.
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  • cjw
    cjw Posts: 1,889
    Headhuunter wrote:
    they have still assumed that I am at fault and the peds completely innocent.

    Absolutely not (at least in my case). I expect ped and others to do stupid thinks but drive and cycle expecting them to do so and ensuring I am in a position to avoid them when they do. They are still at fault. As I read into your experiences - the third party is at fault. However, it doesn;t help saying who is at fault when you have come of your bike or had a crash in a car. Principle is to avoid accidents REGARDLESS of who is in the wrong.
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  • Headhuunter
    Headhuunter Posts: 6,494
    Skippy2309 wrote:
    I have to admit I have hit a few people, out of the 6 times 5 were saying sorry and very apologetic, the 1 in 6 was not an impact it was me nigh on crashing and going over the handle bars as a woman pushed a pram out into the road through a group of people waiting to cross a road!!! wasnt a nice or fun experience, in her opinion it was my fault even tho she forced the pram into my path right in front of me.

    all the other times are similar things where people just step or in one case run straight into the road, now if I have space I go further across the road to avoid people as most are not the sharpest and step out then look.

    I had a woman push a pram out in front of me when there wasn't even any traffic about! the road was completely clear and I was approaching on the correct side of the road etc. Luckily I was more or less in primary and able to sweve round. I think in cases like that, peds and indeed motorists, underestimate the speed at which a bike can travel. I've had cars pull out in front of me from side roads - they look at me and in many cases make eye contact and then merrily pull out leaving me to skid to a near halt.

    Obviously this is not the same as peds wandering out between jammed traffic. When I have hit peds, they have all been apologetic, obviously acknowledging that they were at fault. Apart from one American woman who had ago at me after she'd walked out from the traffic. She went down, I went down, she had coffee which went everywhere. I apologised even though she had crossed the road without due care and attention.

    A few months ago some guy literally ran into the side of me near Highbury and Islington Tube station! I managed to stay upright though. He was busily trying to run/dodge through slow moving traffic, looking to the right and rear and literally ran into the side of me coz he wasn't looking ahead.
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  • Headhuunter
    Headhuunter Posts: 6,494
    cjw wrote:
    Headhuunter wrote:
    they have still assumed that I am at fault and the peds completely innocent.

    Absolutely not (at least in my case). I expect ped and others to do stupid thinks but drive and cycle expecting them to do so and ensuring I am in a position to avoid them when they do. They are still at fault. As I read into your experiences - the third party is at fault. However, it doesn;t help saying who is at fault when you have come of your bike or had a crash in a car. Principle is to avoid accidents REGARDLESS of who is in the wrong.

    Well of course i try to avoid running into peds! I don't enjoy it! As I have pointed out, I often go down, clipped in to the SPDs whilst the ped stays upright! I expect stupidity from some peds and most of the time I manage to avoid problems (3 crashes in 3 years is not a high percentage) but that doesn't mean you can avoid every idiot in every situation.
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  • jedster
    jedster Posts: 1,717
    Absolutely not (at least in my case). I expect ped and others to do stupid thinks but drive and cycle expecting them to do so and ensuring I am in a position to avoid them when they do. They are still at fault. As I read into your experiences - the third party is at fault. However, it doesn;t help saying who is at fault when you have come of your bike or had a crash in a car. Principle is to avoid accidents REGARDLESS of who is in the wrong.

    totally agree with all of this. I was also not suggesting that HH was primarily to blame in his ped collisions just that his track record suggests that he could be making more allowances for other peoples errors.

    I've come off twice in the last 2.5 years when I have lost my front wheel on diesel spills. I think that is bad luck but I am now extra cautious when cornering on those days where there is a little moisture on the road but it's not really wet, particularly if it hasn't rained heavily in a while. You've got to honestly look at your track record, if you are suffering a surprsing number of a type of incident, what are you doing that others are not? What could you be doing differently? Maybe it is just bad luck but if you don't ask yourself the questions you are by definition not a careful rider.

    Cheers,
    J
  • Headhuunter
    Headhuunter Posts: 6,494
    jedster wrote:
    Absolutely not (at least in my case). I expect ped and others to do stupid thinks but drive and cycle expecting them to do so and ensuring I am in a position to avoid them when they do. They are still at fault. As I read into your experiences - the third party is at fault. However, it doesn;t help saying who is at fault when you have come of your bike or had a crash in a car. Principle is to avoid accidents REGARDLESS of who is in the wrong.

    totally agree with all of this. I was also not suggesting that HH was primarily to blame in his ped collisions just that his track record suggests that he could be making more allowances for other peoples errors.

    I've come off twice in the last 2.5 years when I have lost my front wheel on diesel spills. I think that is bad luck but I am now extra cautious when cornering on those days where there is a little moisture on the road but it's not really wet, particularly if it hasn't rained heavily in a while. You've got to honestly look at your track record, if you are suffering a surprsing number of a type of incident, what are you doing that others are not? What could you be doing differently? Maybe it is just bad luck but if you don't ask yourself the questions you are by definition not a careful rider.

    Cheers,
    J

    3-4 incidents with peds in Central London in 3 years whilst cycling about 100-120 miles per week is hardly a "surprising number"! Over the same period I'm sure I have managed to avoid possibly 5 or 6 times that number of incidents with prudent riding.

    Again, you're making an assumption that I need to change my riding style without really knowing much. If I had been out on the bike 3 times in 3 years and had 3 crashes then, yes, I would certainly need to change my ways! As a frequent rider through London I see other cyclists do things that make me wince and I know from this that I am far, far from a dangerous cyclist.

    I'm simply being honest here as I always have been, I'm sure there are plenty of people here who have had way more frequent accidents both with peds and motorists, however they don't say anything.
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