Filtering

Wallace1492

Think this should be in any number of other topics. but couldn't decide which one.
This morning on way in I passed a girl on a Hybrid, she had panniers and a rucksack but was doing a fair pace. have seen her a few times before.

Where the road is, there is bus/taxi/cycle lane on left and another lane for other vehicles.
I approached crossroads & traffic lights with 3 buses sitting waiting, and only 2 cars in outside lane, but looked like lights were near to change, so I just waited in primary behind third bus - not enough room to filter up inside and anyway buses sometimes turn left and just because they are not signaling, doesn't mean they will not turn.

Anyway, girl then flies by on the outside lane, heading down outside of the buses, but at this time the lights change and the buses start to pull away, speeding up faster than her. The third bus then has to slow down to allow her to filter back into the left lane, as cars are now building up behind her. This slows the bus down, slows me down and frustrates the bus as he can't get by her as cars are now in outside lane, and there are no lights/stops for a while.

Not bothered that it slowed me down, but think it was a dangerous manouver and poorly thought out. It gave her virtually no advantage or time saving.

Any thoughts?

always_tyred

If light change whilst filtering, it is reasonable to be able to filter back into traffic.

Busses and HGV's are, in theory, obliged to allow space for other vehicles in between them.

Busses SHOULD allow cyclists to complete overtakes begun whilst they are stationary.

The problem, as far as I can tell, is that the road layout would not make it obvious to the bus drivers that the cyclist was going to need to move back in. So, yes, not the best move on her part. Personally, I'd probably filter past one bus, but two or more makes it a long way to have to filter before you clear them and the odds are that the light will change. Between busses is not a good place to be.

All said and done, though, its not THAT dangerous and the main risk is the impatience of drivers (it is Glasgow after all).

_Brun_

Happens all the time.

Get to a red light and there's one car waiting. Plenty of room to get past (and often an ASL), but I figure there's not much point and wait behind it.

Paying absolutely no attention to my completely selfless example, before the lights have changed a couple of inconsiderate nodders have gone and plonked themselves infront of the car and when the lights go green, wobble off with their heads still firmly lodged in their arses.

TommyEss

At least she was filtering on the outside of the bus...

kurako

Wallace did the right thing here. I' always filter past queuing traffic. Go in front of a bus at some lights? No thanks. Don't see the point in making the bus overtake for no reason. Then again, if there are already slow knobbers in front and you're sure you can beat the bus to the next stop then fair enough. So a bit of it comes down to experience and judgement.

Had some bloke the other week tell me I should go in front of the bus. He reckoned it was safer because the driver could see you. Blatantly not true though. If I can't outrun the damn thing I'd rather be behind it!

And why do people hammer up to red lights and then slam on the brakes? Is it not better to coast up, save a bit of energy and your brake pads, and give the lights time to change?

rich_e

Kurako wrote:

And why do people hammer up to red lights and then slam on the brakes? Is it not better to coast up, save a bit of energy and your brake pads, and give the lights time to change?

Same can be said of motorists as well though. There are plenty who will hammer it above the speed limit to pass you, even though they SHOULD be able to see that there is a que of traffic at a red light ahead. You will only overtake them when you filter past anyway, so why bother?

When I'm driving my car, I'm reading the road enough to see that I can coast towards the lights if its on red... thus I don't need to brake so much and if it starts to change while I'm approaching, I haven't stopped and started again.

artaxerxes

wobble off with their heads still firmly lodged in their arses.

There does seem to be a correlation between wobbling off at lights and bad filtering technique!

artaxerxes

Go in front of a bus at some lights? No thanks

If you stay behind the bus you can save more energy by drafting it for a bit.

Feltup

Sounds like typical city cycling from what I whitnessed last night as a driver (different perspective entirely!). It's no wonder cyclists get such a bad reputation with the number I saw with out lights, jumping lights badly etc.

Anyway going back to your point. Filtering down the outside is fine even if the lights change providing you are then able to sprint to match the speed of the vehicles and can then filter back to the left as per normal riding position. Over taking and then holding up a stream of vehicles including bikes is just bad manners.

kurako

Feltup wrote:

Anyway going back to your point. Filtering down the outside is fine even if the lights change providing you are then able to sprint to match the speed of the vehicles and can then filter back to the left as per normal riding position. Over taking and then holding up a stream of vehicles including bikes is just bad manners.

+1

Another thing I don't get is when there's a crowd at lights and the slowest cyclist will generally stop furthest forward and to the right. Staying just inside them and matching their speed causes amusement as they start to panic about not being able to get back to the kerb :twisted:

choirboy

Kurako wrote:

Another thing I don't get is when there's a crowd at lights and the slowest cyclist will generally stop furthest forward and to the right.

+1

And they will generally be on a Brompton. And wearing a helmet 3 sizes too small.

wgwarburton

Feltup wrote:

Anyway going back to your point. Filtering down the outside is fine even if the lights change providing you are then able to sprint to match the speed of the vehicles and can then filter back to the left as per normal riding position. Over taking and then holding up a stream of vehicles including bikes is just bad manners.

Yup, I'm a "+1" on this, too.

Comes with experience, though, doesn't it? Hence the correlation between bad filtering technique & wobbly starting.
After a while you get to know whether it's sensible to pass-and-merge or slow-and-wait. It depends on the traffic, which bike you're on, how fit you're feeling, how late you are(!) and the road layout...

Not too keen on taking lungfuls of diesel fumes, though... and I wonder about polite use of bus-lanes. Given that buses and bikes share the lanes it's surely to be expected that they'll leapfrog each other between bus stops & lights. Is it rude to "force" a bus to overtake two or three times? Why shouldn't the bus driver just hang back until the next stop, instead? It doesn't seem to me that there can be a hard & fast rule, we just have to be considerate: a fast cyclist will likely leave a bus for dead the next time the driver stops for passangers, whereas a slow one would show consideration by letting the bus go on ahead...

Cheers,
W.

Wallace1492

On a similar subject does anyone here take great pleasure when on a road with a bus/taxi/cycle lane that stops just short of traffic light crossroads, to allow for left turning cars, road is busy so outside lane queues back, some road rat pulls in and up to lights on empty inside lane intending to go straight on. I casually filter past him to the ASL, making sure I am out enough to be in primary, thereby forcing him to wait for the (unforgiving) queue of cars he has tried to undertake to give him a gap to move out.

Good thing is he can do nothing, as 1. He knows he is in the wrong 2. Other car drivers will be mad at him too 3. I look all fluufy and innocent, while my red eyes and forked tail are kept under wraps.

kurako

Wallace1492 wrote:

Think this should be in any number of other topics. but couldn't decide which one.
This morning on way in I passed a girl on a Hybrid, she had panniers and a rucksack but was doing a fair pace. have seen her a few times before.

Where the road is, there is bus/taxi/cycle lane on left and another lane for other vehicles.
I approached crossroads & traffic lights with 3 buses sitting waiting, and only 2 cars in outside lane, but looked like lights were near to change, so I just waited in primary behind third bus - not enough room to filter up inside and anyway buses sometimes turn left and just because they are not signaling, doesn't mean they will not turn.

Anyway, girl then flies by on the outside lane, heading down outside of the buses, but at this time the lights change and the buses start to pull away, speeding up faster than her. The third bus then has to slow down to allow her to filter back into the left lane, as cars are now building up behind her. This slows the bus down, slows me down and frustrates the bus as he can't get by her as cars are now in outside lane, and there are no lights/stops for a while.

Not bothered that it slowed me down, but think it was a dangerous manouver and poorly thought out. It gave her virtually no advantage or time saving.

Any thoughts?

4. He gets the hump and roars past, clipping you on the way. Way too risky. Unless you got some motorbikes to back you up!

PBo

choirboy wrote:

And they will generally be on a Brompton. And wearing a helmet 3 sizes too small.

Yes!! what the hell is it with Bromptonian helmet wearers???? :?

nielsamd

How about filter lights for cyclists at junctions that clearly need them. This would allow time and predictability to create safer conditions.
Relatedly, this has come up in Oxford. If you agree, cast a vote (the anti-cyclist petrolheads are).http://www.oxfordtimes.co.uk/news/4657245.Cyclists_call_for_priority_at_red_lights/

TommyEss

nielsamd wrote:

How about filter lights for cyclists at junctions that clearly need them. This would allow time and predictability to create safer conditions.
Relatedly, this has come up in Oxford. If you agree, cast a vote (the anti-cyclist petrolheads are).http://www.oxfordtimes.co.uk/news/4657245.Cyclists_call_for_priority_at_red_lights/

Worked well in Switzerland - cyclists get their own smaller traffic lights mounted lower down (about eye level, so you don't crane your neck) and you get a priority right turn before the rest of the traffic moves of (which would be the equivalent of a priority left over here)

tarquin_foxglove

artaxerxes wrote:

Go in front of a bus at some lights? No thanks

If you stay behind the bus you can save more energy by drafting it for a bit.

You are Matt Seaton & I claim my £5.

leoccp

Kurako wrote:

Another thing I don't get is when there's a crowd at lights and the slowest cyclist will generally stop furthest forward and to the right. Staying just inside them and matching their speed causes amusement as they start to panic about not being able to get back to the kerb :twisted:

Hope this maneuver is just as amusing to you when carried out by some tosspot in a car. Just teaching 'em a lesson though aren't you aye, no harm done

Seriously, most of the most inconsiderate cycling I see, is from people who look pretty inexperienced / don't have much road confidence yet. I say give'em a chance.

kurako

leoccp wrote:

Kurako wrote:

Another thing I don't get is when there's a crowd at lights and the slowest cyclist will generally stop furthest forward and to the right. Staying just inside them and matching their speed causes amusement as they start to panic about not being able to get back to the kerb :twisted:

Hope this maneuver is just as amusing to you when carried out by some tosspot in a car. Just teaching 'em a lesson though aren't you aye, no harm done

Seriously, most of the most inconsiderate cycling I see, is from people who look pretty inexperienced / don't have much road confidence yet. I say give'em a chance.

Sorry if you thought I was being unduly mean. There is a definite problem which maybe I shouldn't have made light of.

There are numerous occasions where I've been stopped at lights by a matter of seconds only to find some tit who I've already passed trundle up stop and stop alongside or even in front. So when the lights change I end up: A) boxed in and faced with a potentially dangerous overtaking move with traffic alongside or watching someone get a fraction of their bike in front then drift in on a collision course with my front wheel.

This is down to selfishness much more than inexperience. These are the same people who will squeeze through tiny gaps to the left of buses or line up in a big queue alongside vehicles that are indicating left. These are the sort of people who p*ss off a lot of motorists (and fill column inches in right wing rags).

People just need to think about their actions more. Unfortunately the sort of people who'd benefit from advice on a forum like this are probably the least likely to be reading it!

suzyb

Kurako wrote:

Another thing I don't get is when there's a crowd at lights and the slowest cyclist will generally stop furthest forward and to the right. Staying just inside them and matching their speed causes amusement as they start to panic about not being able to get back to the kerb :twisted:

So that isn't just reserved to cars then.

You know I always find it fascinating on here when everyone talks about the other cyclists they see on the road. I saw two others today (roadie and tourer, both going different ways from me) and that was a busy day.

prawny

I was filtering down the middle of a 2 lane dual carriadgeway this morning through about 2 miles of slow moving traffic, when I saw and old fella squeezing down the left hand side all the way up the inside of 3 huge trucks when there were industrial estates all down the left hand side of the road. Scary :shock:

He was wearing a yellow jacket though.

Wallace1492

Wallace1492 wrote:

Think this should be in any number of other topics. but couldn't decide which one.
This morning on way in I passed a girl on a Hybrid, she had panniers and a rucksack but was doing a fair pace. have seen her a few times before.

Where the road is, there is bus/taxi/cycle lane on left and another lane for other vehicles.
I approached crossroads & traffic lights with 3 buses sitting waiting, and only 2 cars in outside lane, but looked like lights were near to change, so I just waited in primary behind third bus - not enough room to filter up inside and anyway buses sometimes turn left and just because they are not signaling, doesn't mean they will not turn.

Anyway, girl then flies by on the outside lane, heading down outside of the buses, but at this time the lights change and the buses start to pull away, speeding up faster than her. The third bus then has to slow down to allow her to filter back into the left lane, as cars are now building up behind her. This slows the bus down, slows me down and frustrates the bus as he can't get by her as cars are now in outside lane, and there are no lights/stops for a while.

Not bothered that it slowed me down, but think it was a dangerous manouver and poorly thought out. It gave her virtually no advantage or time saving.

Any thoughts?

Saw same girl this morning. I was stopped at lights at front in primary, she flashes past on pavement (is a fence between road and pavement) lights go green, and I move off, she gets to far side of lights and pedestrian crossing part and just cycles onto the road again, right in front of me. Luckily no cars in outside lane and I can swerve out, avoid and overtake. Think I might get a copy of the Highway Code and slip it to her next time I see her.....

kurako

Wallace1492 wrote:

Wallace1492 wrote:

Think this should be in any number of other topics. but couldn't decide which one.
This morning on way in I passed a girl on a Hybrid, she had panniers and a rucksack but was doing a fair pace. have seen her a few times before.

Where the road is, there is bus/taxi/cycle lane on left and another lane for other vehicles.
I approached crossroads & traffic lights with 3 buses sitting waiting, and only 2 cars in outside lane, but looked like lights were near to change, so I just waited in primary behind third bus - not enough room to filter up inside and anyway buses sometimes turn left and just because they are not signaling, doesn't mean they will not turn.

Anyway, girl then flies by on the outside lane, heading down outside of the buses, but at this time the lights change and the buses start to pull away, speeding up faster than her. The third bus then has to slow down to allow her to filter back into the left lane, as cars are now building up behind her. This slows the bus down, slows me down and frustrates the bus as he can't get by her as cars are now in outside lane, and there are no lights/stops for a while.

Not bothered that it slowed me down, but think it was a dangerous manouver and poorly thought out. It gave her virtually no advantage or time saving.

Any thoughts?

Saw same girl this morning. I was stopped at lights at front in primary, she flashes past on pavement (is a fence between road and pavement) lights go green, and I move off, she gets to far side of lights and pedestrian crossing part and just cycles onto the road again, right in front of me. Luckily no cars in outside lane and I can swerve out, avoid and overtake. Think I might get a copy of the Highway Code and slip it to her next time I see her.....

That is way out of order! Silly cow! You need to give her a talking to.

prawny

Wallace1492 wrote:

[ Think I might get a copy of the Highway Code and slip it to her next time I see her.....

Most girls I know whouldn't be that grateful for a copy of the highway code, worth a try though.

kurako

prawny wrote:

Wallace1492 wrote:

[ Think I might get a copy of the Highway Code and slip it to her next time I see her.....

Most girls I know whouldn't be that grateful for a copy of the highway code, worth a try though.

Sounds like a euphemism to me.

TommyEss

Kurako wrote:

prawny wrote:

Wallace1492 wrote:

[ Think I might get a copy of the Highway Code and slip it to her next time I see her.....

Most girls I know whouldn't be that grateful for a copy of the highway code, worth a try though.

Sounds like a euphemism to me.

Well you could certainly quite comfortably split that into two separate sentences!