M'gTFU and learning self-defence

TommyEss

lost_in_thought wrote:

'have you fed your penguin today'

Go on then - who's putting that as their FB status?

CiB

Full marks to OP for not asking about self-defense [sic] though.

Anyway, I've always managed to win my fights by about 100 yards. Never fails.

#
Brave Sir Robin ran away...
etc. To the tune of Brave Brave Sir Robin.

TommyEss

He's chickening out, he's buggering off....

lost_in_thought

When danger reared its ugly head he bravely turned his tail and fled, brave brave brave brave sir robin....



Thanks CinB, I'll be humming that to myself for the rest of the day!

salsajake

spasypaddy wrote:

cjcp wrote:

Krav Maga?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krav_Maga

this is the correct answer, i used to train in this and its brutal. absolutely brutal

Ah Spasypaddy, please don't assail me when I pass you next week on SC Stats then! In seriousness, this looks the sort of thing that could build my confidence without having to go through rituals, belts and all that stuff, which frankly I don't have time for. Is Krav Maga then basically a good tool to simply boost your ability to defend yourself relatively quickly? Do you have to be physically strong (other than good cycling legs!) to get the most out of it? The reason I mentioned Jiu Jitsu is that it seemed that whatever your build there were tricks you could do unbalance and flatten people or put them in a weird lock and keep them there. Is this similar, but just more hardcore? How far did you get with it?

artaxerxes

Another of the self-defence techniques was to calmly ask a completely bizarre question - the example given was 'have you fed your penguin today' - and use the assailant's momentary pause for thought to leg it!

Reminds me of an old self defence sketch from Harry Enfield

DonDaddyD

What you want to do is go Super Saiyan

And then fight like this Fight one or Fight 2

Me fighting after one too many...Drunken D

LazyBoycp

I got a book on Krav Maga a few years ago. This came as a result of being on the bus one evening when one guy decided to threaten another with a hammer, and then smashed the window next to his head when he was kicked off the bus, which got broken glass all over a baby in a pram. The joys of living in South Manchester! :? Anyway, decided I didn't want to be incapable of defending myself in a situation like that if I got threatened, but to be honest I haven't actually looked at the book for ages.

Anyone have any idea if there are any classes in Manchester? Another thing... I have a slightly dodgy knee - would Krav Maga (or anything similar) potentially damage it when doing the contact practice?

DonDaddyD

Personally given the type of street fighting the other guy will be resorting to, I'm of the fought boxing (yep pugilism) to be the best form of self defence/fighting...

After all, "Self Defence" is just the politically correct and legally safe way of saying "beating someone up" or "opening a can'o'whoop ass on someone...."

Greg T

Clever Pun wrote:

but chances are you'll eat fist

Punching someone in the head is a bad idea.

Too hard, can move out of the way fast and full of pointy teeth.

One round into the solar plexus will incapacitate anyone for long enough for you to get your mental going pull them onto the ground and shoe them ragged.

lost_in_thought

Hmmmm yeah, but unless you're quite experienced at fighting the solar plexus is a tricky area to hit spot on first time.

Nice self-defence man told us girlies that if you're going to punch a bloke, do it quickly, as hard as you can, in the adam's apple.

UndercoverElephant

Too true, LiT. Too many girlies beat on a chaps chest in that situation, which is about the worst place to punch someone, very well protected.

Most martial arts aren't much cop in a street fight, nor is boxing really, too many rules and self control. A proper street fighter will take apart most experts at any martial art. The Krav Maga does look the most use, as it's designed for quickly incapacitating any opponent. Then run like hell, obviously.

ride_whenever

a can o' whoop ass aint going to cut it on your average WVM...

to pickle a hog that big you need the 40 gal. drum of whoop ass.

Greg T

lost_in_thought wrote:

Hmmmm yeah, but unless you're quite experienced at fighting the solar plexus is a tricky area to hit spot on first time.

Nice self-defence man told us girlies that if you're going to punch a bloke, do it quickly, as hard as you can, in the adam's apple.

Punch in the throat will do the job.

Then get your fingers into their eyes screaming bloody murder as you go. Break their will to fight and attract attention.

There are no rules in street fighting, grab anything pointy and hard, a pen will do or your keys and get that into them. Eyes, ears, nose anywhere you can get at - don't give them a chance to open their eyes and size up their options.

If you lose the initiative you are in trouble so attack with as much force and nasty as you've got, attract attention and buy time working out how to break away.

DonDaddyD

UndercoverElephant wrote:

Too true, LiT. Too many girlies beat on a chaps chest in that situation, which is about the worst place to punch someone, very well protected.

Most martial arts aren't much cop in a street fight, nor is boxing really, too many rules and self control.

I disagree, boxing at least tells you how to punch* and where, while teaching you how to defend yourself in what may seem the most basic but often most effective way (chin in, mouth closed, head moving and the ever important balance that sort of thing).

I've seen (for all intent and purposes) a boxer dismantle a person, not pretty. Couple that with knowing a few pressure points and holds and you've got one formidable adversary.

*Knowing how to punch is surprisingly important and something that is easily gotten wrong, which could end up injuring you. I was at Uni once and my housemates got into a fight, even though only 2 punches got thrown one managed to fracture his wrist and the other his knuckle....

lost_in_thought

GT you're absolutely right old bean.

Anyone would think you'd had some training at scrapping or something.

Stuey01

Boxing.

There is no substitute for knowing how to hit and more importantly being able to not absoluty shit it when you get hit.

Plus you get thrown straight in the deep end and are fighting almost from day one of training

UndercoverElephant

DonDaddyD wrote:

I disagree, boxing at least tells you how to punch and where, while teaching you how to defend yourself in what may seem the most basic but often most effective way (chin in, mouth closed, head moving that sort of thing).

I've seen (for all intent and purposes) a boxer dismantle a person, not pretty. Couple that with knowing a few pressure points and holds and you've got one formidable adversary.

Lets see, Mike Tyson before going into prison was a monster, unbeatable. Couple of years of being someone's bee-hatch? Couldn't beat a knackered, well past his prime, Hollyfield.

That said, yes, a decent boxer will beat most untrained fighters.

DonDaddyD

UndercoverElephant wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

I disagree, boxing at least tells you how to punch and where, while teaching you how to defend yourself in what may seem the most basic but often most effective way (chin in, mouth closed, head moving that sort of thing).

I've seen (for all intent and purposes) a boxer dismantle a person, not pretty. Couple that with knowing a few pressure points and holds and you've got one formidable adversary.

Lets see, Mike Tyson before going into prison was a monster, unbeatable. Couple of years of being someone's bee-hatch? Couldn't beat a knackered, well past his prime, Hollyfield.

That said, yes, a decent boxer will beat most untrained fighters.

Completely out of context.

Firstly, Hollyfield used boxing skills to defeat another boxer. He applied Tyson specific tactics to defeat Tyson, such as a fresh uppercut every time Tyson tried to roll under the jab - something Tyson had done for most of his early career because he was so short. Incidentally it was (sort of) the same tatic Ali used to defeat the much shorter Joe Fraiser. I'm not seeing your point against boxing in a street fight though? There was no way Tyson pre-boxing would have beaten a trained Hollyfield.

Secondly, 'The real deal' Hollyfield was a late developer and not out of his prime when he fought a (early developer) Tyson who was past his best.

Thirdly, Had Tyson fought Hollyfield when they were supposed to (before Tyson went to Prison) Tyson would have so much chewed his ear but ate him whole.

Lastly, Hollyfield walked down to the ring single gospel music. Any time a brotha starts singing church music before a fight you know the other guy is in for a whooping...

Tyson was a monster though wasn't he?

Greg T

UndercoverElephant wrote:

That said, yes, a decent boxer will beat most untrained fighters.

Unsurprising - most people never get in a fight in their adult lives - suddenly a situation arises well outside their context and experience that requires them to behave against their instincts - they don't really want to hurt anyone. They waste time working out what's happening, waste time thinking about what to do and when they start fighting don't mean it. They come to the party late (by which time they could well be on the ground getting a kicking) and when they get there don't have the nasty on to really get into their oppo.

Boxers have been in fights, lots of fights, whilst the rules are different they aren't as overwhelmed as "civilians" by the situation.

They have practiced and respond - they are conditioned - just like Pavlov's dogs to react to agression with agression.

They don't panic and go into fight mode

Avoiding the freeze reflex and therefore losing the initiative makes a big difference.

Stuey01

Indeed he was. An absolute beast.

Don't see how one boxer beating another has any bearing on the efficacy of boxing for self defense. Now if Tyson had come out of prison and had his ass handed to him by a fat White van man then there may be something in it.

Somehow I sincerely doubt Tyson was anyones bitch.

UndercoverElephant

DonDaddyD wrote:

Tyson was a monster though wasn't he?

He sure was! My point was, that if boxing was the panacea of the fighting arts, Tyson wouldn't have been bummed so much in prison. Allegedly. However, he got pretty badly beaten up on a number of occasions, apparently.

artaxerxes

If you tried to punch like a modern boxer in a street fight without gloves wouldn't you just break your fists (as DDD's mate did)? The fighting stance of the boxers from the bareknuckle days was completely different, and for a reason.

DonDaddyD

Stuey01 wrote:

Now if Tyson had come out of prison and had his ass handed to him by a fat White van man then there may be something in it.

Isn't that against the rules of the Universe of something....

Though them Russian/Polish and generally Eastern European guys seem to be rewritting the rules of heavyweight boxing that have been in place since The Brown Bomber Joe Louis (or Jack Johnson back in the early 1900).

Somehow I sincerely doubt Tyson was anyones *****.

I don't know Tyson did have 20felonies against him before he was 21 complete with his lisp and slightly soft supple voice... in prison though no one can hear you scream...

roger_merriman

artaxerxes wrote:

If you tried to punch like a modern boxer in a street fight without gloves wouldn't you just break your fists (as DDD's mate did)? The fighting stance of the boxers from the bareknuckle days was completely different, and for a reason.

bloke having a go vs boxer is unlikely to last long normally as long as it takes for the boxer to return a punch where upon its all over.

DonDaddyD

UndercoverElephant wrote:

DonDaddyD wrote:

Tyson was a monster though wasn't he?

He sure was! My point was, that if boxing was the panacea of the fighting arts, Tyson wouldn't have been bummed so much in prison. Allegedly. However, he got pretty badly beaten up on a number of occasions, apparently.

I don't know if Tyson got beaten up in prison or bummed.

I will say this, you're assuming a lot. You don't know the circumstance like whether he got jumped, whether the fights were 1on1 or a gang against Tyson? Also you haven't considered the fact that some people prison aren't like us, many have nothing to live for and are likely to be unhinged, retard strong and equally as violent. Fact he wasn't killed probably says more than the fact he was beaten up.

All I'm saying is that boxing is a great way learning how to defend yourself. Will you be able to defeat every untrained person, its unlikely but you'll stand more of a chance having learned boxing than not having learnt it.

lost_in_thought

To be fair, in a prison environment like you see on documentaries (I've only ever been to one prison, and only as a vistor) there's a hierarchy of hard men, which would make someone like tyson a big target, like an FCN1 who's new to embankment, and all the other roadies need to scalp him to maintian their position in the pecking order.

Please note that the above is entirely speculative.

UndercoverElephant

DonDaddyD wrote:

I don't know if Tyson got beaten up in prison or bummed.

I will say this, you're assuming a lot. You don't know the circumstance like whether he got jumped, whether the fights were 1on1 or a gang against Tyson? Also you haven't considered the fact that some people prison aren't like us, many have nothing to live for and are likely to be unhinged, retard strong and equally as violent. Fact he wasn't killed probably says more than the fact he was beaten up.

I'm on a wind-up a bit, to be fair. I suspect Tyson was kept nice and separate from the other inmates, so he could do his time quietly. That said, he was a shadow of himself when he came out, so who knows really. I do know a few martial arts experts who've been well and truly done in a street fight though.

artaxerxes

Though them Russian/Polish and generally Eastern European guys seem to be rewritting the rules of heavyweight boxing that have been in place since The Brown Bomber Joe Louis (or Jack Johnson back in the early 1900)

Ah the Brown Bomber, now you're talking
He had skillz

Not sure if these East European/Russian heavyweights have re-written the rules. I think it more likely that the standard of heavyweight boxing has declined.

DonDaddyD

I learned wing chun, briefly.

artaxerxes wrote:

If you tried to punch like a modern boxer in a street fight without gloves wouldn't you just break your fists (as DDD's mate did)? The fighting stance of the boxers from the bareknuckle days was completely different, and for a reason.

Nope. The modern stance is an evolution of the bareknuckle days and a stance that is familar in many other forms of fighting. The stance gives a degree of increased balance while opening up the body, legs and shoulders to movement from where you can better dodge and throw a punch (even kick if you've be taught).

Throwing a punch and not injuring yourself is about how you form a fist, line up your wrist and twist your arm upon impact for maximum force (amongst other things). With or without the gloves if you've been taught to throw a punch if thrown properly it shouldn't injure you. Nature incidentally made the shoulder-arms-wrist-fist to act as a shockabsorber when lined up properly while being able to cause a lot of damage.