Reach for the Bars (or the brakes)

kingrollo
Posts: 3,198
Getting a bit of mild backache on my new bike. took various measurements and came up with the following:-
1. Reach to the top of the bars is almost identical
2.Bars on the new bike are a couple of inches higher (I wanted this - but could take out spacers to go lower).
3. Reach to the brake hoods, on which I like ride, is an inch longer on the new bike - this is due to the shape of the bars, as the reach to the tops is the same.
4.Saddle to pedal measures the same
5. Saddle on the new bike is 1 inch shorter - due to the cut out back
Other stuff,
new bike has integrated seat tube, I feel pretty comfy on it, and my average speed over a set course is a couple of MPH faster. its when I get off the bike that I notice my stiff back. have had quite a few back problems over the years so it needn't be the new bike. Just wondered if anyone has any advice re the most likley cause. I am suspecting the increased reach to the brake hoods, therefore need bars with a shorter reach (?) - However given the comfort and increased speed while on the bike, I wonder if core strength is the issue, or even the san marco saddle........any thoughts \ recommendations?
1. Reach to the top of the bars is almost identical
2.Bars on the new bike are a couple of inches higher (I wanted this - but could take out spacers to go lower).
3. Reach to the brake hoods, on which I like ride, is an inch longer on the new bike - this is due to the shape of the bars, as the reach to the tops is the same.
4.Saddle to pedal measures the same
5. Saddle on the new bike is 1 inch shorter - due to the cut out back
Other stuff,
new bike has integrated seat tube, I feel pretty comfy on it, and my average speed over a set course is a couple of MPH faster. its when I get off the bike that I notice my stiff back. have had quite a few back problems over the years so it needn't be the new bike. Just wondered if anyone has any advice re the most likley cause. I am suspecting the increased reach to the brake hoods, therefore need bars with a shorter reach (?) - However given the comfort and increased speed while on the bike, I wonder if core strength is the issue, or even the san marco saddle........any thoughts \ recommendations?
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Comments
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where is the back ache exactly? lumbar?0
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An inch extra to reach the brkes may stretch you and cause aching.
I would be very surprised if your bike makes you go couple of miles an hour faster, it's your legs that make you go faster not the bike
Some will say a better aero position will make you go faster also but not sure if thats the cse with higher bar height but you did say your strecthed more0 -
Pain is in lower back - right at the bottom of the spine - more of an ache than tenderness. I suspect the solution is
1.Buy bars which are a shorther shape thus bring the reach to bars forward.(most expensive)
2.Or I could rotate the bars - to shorten the reach
3. A shorter stem - but then this brings the reach to the bar tops forward.
4.Stretches and pilates to enable me to make the reach easier0 -
i think shorter reach bars are the way to go - you don't want to reduce the stem too much - I find if the 'tops' are too close you risk hitting them with your knees during "out of saddle" climbing (or perhaps I climb weird!)0
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Have a look at 'compact' bars...Start with a budget, finish with a mortgage!0
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A machine I bought second hand had a longer top tube than my others. With my usual equipment the reach on the hoods was about an inch more than I am used to. I tried it for a while, did not like it and so put on a stem an inch shorter.
You say that you ride the hoods most of the time, so does it matter that the tops of the bars would end up closer to you? If it does, then you should change your bars.0 -
I had exactly the same issue when I fitted new Easton bars to my bike. The extra reach really aggravated my back and it took me a while to work out that was actually what the problem was. In the end I went with a shorter stem and everything was just fine. I also flipped it for a higher position (which I don't really like the look of TBH but it's better than back pain) whcih also helped.0
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gkerr4 wrote:i think shorter reach bars are the way to go - you don't want to reduce the stem too much - I find if the 'tops' are too close you risk hitting them with your knees during "out of saddle" climbing (or perhaps I climb weird!)
Would be the most expensive option !!!!!
Anyone know of any bars with a shorter reach .....or what aspect of a bar I should be measuring ?0 -
I'd see if you could borrow a shorter stem from a friend and go out for a ride and see if it's any better before going down the line of looking for shorter reach bars and then swapping all the equipment over.0
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kingrollo wrote:gkerr4 wrote:i think shorter reach bars are the way to go - you don't want to reduce the stem too much - I find if the 'tops' are too close you risk hitting them with your knees during "out of saddle" climbing (or perhaps I climb weird!)
Would be the most expensive option !!!!!
Anyone know of any bars with a shorter reach .....or what aspect of a bar I should be measuring ?
it is yes, but then again - you can get FSA compact bars for under £25 - not a huge amount in the big scheme of things - especially on a Kuota Kharma - what price comfort?
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/cycle/7/FSA_O ... 360036373/
Edit:
you should be looking for the 'reach' measurement btw - those FSA's are 80mm and actually not that short - you can get bars with around 70mm reach - your current bars (judging from the picture) look pretty 'long' so even an 80mm reach will make a nice difference. In addition, the compact bars have a shallower 'drop' making you much more likely to be able (and want) to use the drops for periods of time - again, looking at your current bars they have a massive difference between hoods and drops - I doubt you use the drops much do you?
Bars are, IMO, a bit like saddles, they are just one of the things that you need to try a few of until you get it right - again IMO, the saddle bars and pedals - i.e. the contact points - are what makes or breaks a bike - and you HAVE to get it right.
I have got it right with the bars but sadly it cost a fortune! - I now have these:
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/cycle/7/Cinel ... 360033756/
but they are easily the best upgrade I have made to my bike.0 -
gkerr4 wrote:kingrollo wrote:gkerr4 wrote:i think shorter reach bars are the way to go - you don't want to reduce the stem too much - I find if the 'tops' are too close you risk hitting them with your knees during "out of saddle" climbing (or perhaps I climb weird!)
Would be the most expensive option !!!!!
Anyone know of any bars with a shorter reach .....or what aspect of a bar I should be measuring ?
it is yes, but then again - you can get FSA compact bars for under £25 - not a huge amount in the big scheme of things - especially on a Kuota Kharma - what price comfort?
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/cycle/7/FSA_O ... 360036373/
Edit:
you should be looking for the 'reach' measurement btw - those FSA's are 80mm and actually not that short - you can get bars with around 70mm reach - your current bars (judging from the picture) look pretty 'long' so even an 80mm reach will make a nice difference. In addition, the compact bars have a shallower 'drop' making you much more likely to be able (and want) to use the drops for periods of time - again, looking at your current bars they have a massive difference between hoods and drops - I doubt you use the drops much do you?
Bars are, IMO, a bit like saddles, they are just one of the things that you need to try a few of until you get it right - again IMO, the saddle bars and pedals - i.e. the contact points - are what makes or breaks a bike - and you HAVE to get it right.
I have got it right with the bars but sadly it cost a fortune! - I now have these:
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/cycle/7/Cinel ... 360033756/
but they are easily the best upgrade I have made to my bike.0 -
KR - did you mean to post a blank there?0
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no - Don't know what happened there !
How do I measure the reach of my current bars ?
Many thanks for all your help so far ?0 -
kingrollo wrote:no - Don't know what happened there !
How do I measure the reach of my current bars ?
Many thanks for all your help so far ?
basically - it's the horizontal measurement from the front of the 'top bar' - to the furthest forward point on the curve to the drops - not the easiest thing to measure to be honest.
best to look at the manufacturers website for your current make of bars - find your model and see if they quote any specification for them - this will give you something to compare.0 -
thanks - I have an idea of swapping the bars from my commutter bike - just to see if this is the issue.
Thanks again for your help. Will keep you posted.0 -
Hi
I suggest you optimise for the hoods, as this is where you like to ride. I'd go with Dru's suggestion and get a shorter stem, possibly combined with moving the saddle forward a few mm.
Have somebody look at you from the side when on the hoods. If the upper arm to torso angle is above 90 degrees you are overstretched and need to reduce the saddle to hood dimension
You may like to check your saddle position anyway. Even though the height is right, the compliance of the saddle and where you sit on it could put your hips into a different place compared to your other bike.
See here for more info http://bikedynamics.co.uk/guidelines.htm
Mike at BikeDynamics0 -
I re measured it all again last night - taking my time, I am now more confused than ever ! - However what I am going to do is take some photos and movies of me on the old and new bikes - I will post them here ......(Bear with me folks !)0
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give a set of FSA Omega Compacts a shot, there not expensive really, £20 i think of wiggle.0
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ok - Here are some pictures - the pictures in the red jersey are on my old bike - the pictures in the white are on my new bike.
Its bizzare, the bars on the pinarello are lower - yet I think I look more upright
I think look more stretched out on the kouta - yet measuring from the tip of the saddle to the brake hoods - its about the same.
I think the saddle might be to high on the kuota, and may lower this 5mm ....0 -
The stem idea is probably the most straightforward option but to my (amatuer) eye those hoods look a long way down the bars.
If you like riding on the hoods I would definitely recommend the FSA Omega Compacts as they're awesome. They look a bit odd at first but the hoods are placed at the same level as the tops so there's no reaching downward slightly to ride on them. I find them extremely comfortable and have been riding round for over 4 hours with very little discomfort.0 -
Measure from where you actualy sit on the saddle. I would say that the saddle to bar height difference is about the same but you are definately longer on the Kuota. The levers are very low on both bikes. I don't like mine high but try to give a smooth run from the bars on to the hoods. Having them low will push your wrists down and increase stain on them which could affect your back as you try to lessen the weight on them.
Check you are sitting the same distance behind the BB as on the old bike asumming this was comfortable. Drop a plumb line from your knee cap with the cramk horizontal and see if it fall in the same place on both bikes. You can not just measure the saddle position as you will not sit on the saddles in quite the same place. You can then check the reach by seeing where the back edge of each saddle is relative to your backside, then measure to the hoods from the saddle back making allowance for any difference. Saddle set back and height are the most important measurements for fitting a bike. Once the saddle is right you can start on the rest.0 -
Escargot wrote:The stem idea is probably the most straightforward option but to my (amatuer) eye those hoods look a long way down the bars.
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on which picture ? - the one where I am in the red top - yes they are a long way down - but thats the bike I don't get backache on !0 -
kingrollo wrote:Escargot wrote:The stem idea is probably the most straightforward option but to my (amatuer) eye those hoods look a long way down the bars.
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on which picture ? - the one where I am in the red top - yes they are a long way done - but thats the bike I don't get backache on !0 -
kingrollo wrote:Escargot wrote:The stem idea is probably the most straightforward option but to my (amatuer) eye those hoods look a long way down the bars.
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on which picture ? - the one where I am in the red top - yes they are a long way down - but thats the bike I don't get backache on !
Agreed, they look really low down on the red bike but I was meaning the Kharma (lovely bike btw)
I think all conventional bars look like that now I've got compacts but that's why I like them so much as riding on the hoods feels much more natural.
Here you go, a pic of a bike with them fitted (apologies for the image size).0 -
Escargot wrote:The stem idea is probably the most straightforward option but to my (amatuer) eye those hoods look a long way down the bars.
Might just be the picture but on the Pinarello the levers look like they are in totally different positions too - the left brake lever is pointing back and the right is pointing forward.
They are both way too far down though - both bikes I mean. You're right that you look more upright on the Pinarello - because you're forced to ride with your arms straight. The position on the other one is better - but still just a little stretched which is probably where your backache is coming from.I'm left handed, if that matters.0 -
Thanks for all the feedback folks - the shop I brought it from have offered to change the stem and/or the bars for compact .....I am leaning towards a shorter stem - current is 110 - what do you think ?0
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you do look more stretched out on the kuota right enough - i think perhaps a shorter stem - even just 10 or 20mm would probably see you right (although compact bars would do the same and offer some other benefts too)0
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Might go for the shorter stem only at first.
Have lowered the saddle 5mm - will test sunday - I read somewhere that the classic sign of a saddle to high - is no pain when you are on the bike - but its kicks in the instant you get off. Which is what happens.0 -
OK - only went out for 2 hours today, with lowered saddle (5MM) - and titled the bears so the brake hoods point up a little. also been doing stretching each night.- No back pain though .....thats the good news.
I now have a dilemma though. The lbs where I brought the back have offered to swap my stem, and fit compact bars free of charge. I brought the bike in august not sure how long this offer will be on the table.
So the dilema is do I move to a shorter stem /compact bars, or wait untilI can do longer ride to see if my 'new position' has cured my back problems.......thoughts ?0 -
Is the seat tube angle the same on both bikes? If you are further behind the pedals on the Kuota that could be a cause as it's a different pedal action0