Manualling

MountainPete

I'm sure this topic has come up many a time, but I am determined to nail this!

I am desperate to be able to pull a good and well controlled manual on demand. This skill has been eluding me for quite a while now and this week I have decided to put an end to it. I've read all the guides and watched all the videos, so this is a kind of cry for taylored help!

Yesterday I went out and found a deserted road with a gradual downward slope. I started with trying pulling a wheelie. Getting the front wheel up is very easy, but I can't seem to keep my sideways balance. I managed to hold a few good ones, but most were a bit out of control.

After a run of (what I thought were) good wheelies, I decided to try the 'manual' approach. This is where I struggle - I can't lift the wheel very high at all, and I am quite sure there is something I am missing in the basic technique of the lift.

I'd love to have some help in solving these two problems, and if anyone has had any similar experiences in trying to master this skill I would love to hear your stories!

RealMan

Always wanted the confidence to do this, myself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u81LWdcwelM

Chalky76

Pete,

Manualling is the next thing i really want to master, and probably in a similar place as you right now. I had a skills day a few months ago and asked for manualling to be included. After a few runs and tips, i manged to pull one (albeit short lived). The best bit of advice from my trainer was to sort of scoop the handlebars up, not just yank them. It made a big difference, so much so that you need to be ready with the back brake otherwise you went all the way over! Might help here to raise your brake lever up so it's well within reach when you are hanging over your back tire.

I think that with manualling, practice makes perfect and it's the same balance and biting point as a wheelie.

Let us know how you get on.

MountainPete

RealMan - I wish!!!

Chalky76 - thanks for the advice. As you say, I think I have been just pulling hard on the handlebars, rather than lifiting them up. I'll try and get out again today and spend some time messing around.

mancjon

Pete

I'm also in the process of trying to go a good manual. I've found that the key thing is to make sure that you move enough weight back to lift the front wheel. If you find your'e wheel isn't going very high then it is probably because you are leaving too much weight over the handlebars. But as Chalky says. make sure you can reach your back brake !!

I'm assuming you've seen this guide but just in case -

http://www.bikeradar.com/fitness/articl ... rt-1-14715

As it says in the article if you are having to exert a lot of effort to get the front wheel up then it's not really the right way to do it. And incidentally if you do do this thats when you end up going sideways etc..

Jon

MountainPete

mancjon - thanks for the help :-) Yep I've seen and read the guide a few times! I didn't manage to get to 'my road' today as I had to have a shorter ride, but hopefully I'll reach it tomorrow and get to try and put some of this into practice!

owen908

Momentum is key here.pulling a manual at higher speeds will enable you to keep the front wheel in the air for a longer period of time easier than trying to hold it up at lower speeds.Once you have mastered maunals at speed youll be ripping down the trail comfortably manualing over puddles, roots with ease.

abductee

I could give you some advice but you might not thank me

http://www.bikeradar.com/mtb/forums/vie ... highlight=

Yukon Lad

i want to learn how to manual, i was getting the hang of sitiing down wheelies on my trail bike but when i began to get the hang of it on my DH bike now whenever i try it on my trail bike i just put too much power down, but my DH bike is much for fun to ride.

Yukon Lad

Stepford Wife

Tips I was given as well as scooping the bars mentioned above is to point your heels down as you shift your weight back. This seems to help to get your mass in the right place. It's really a matter of moving mass quickly and smoothly backwards and straightening your legs to give the oomph needed - legs being stronger than arms anyway.

And practising lots and then some more. One of those skills to practise as you ride along anywhere. Mine were geting better until my bike got nicked :?

CFS

Can someone clarify what they mean by 'scooping the handlebars up' ?

I've heard this a few times but am not really sure what it means.

Ta

Chalky76

When I was taught, it involves shifting your weight forward before shifting backwards to unweight the front wheel, but rather than just yanking at the bars (which is what i was always trying), you sort of scoop them by pushing them down and away and bringing them back in a sort of semi-circle.

It really makes a difference, so much so that when you get it right, it makes lifting the front so easy that you can literally just flip the bike right back, which is where you need to have the back brake ready to bring the front down.

Not sure that makes sense reading it back, hard to explain exactly and by no means did I master it.

:?

MountainPete

Hmm I went out today and tried shifting my weight as far back as it would go (saddle down and everything) to no avail. I think I need to master this handlebar scooping technique!

Thanks again all for the help :-)

DVV

I was taught the following....

DON'T just lift the bars up.

Crouch on the bike with your bum in the air. Drop your heels down a little so your toes point up. Have some bend in both your arms and legs.

Push down and 'away' on the bars quickly, and quickly extend your legs to push the bike forwards under you. You need to do this quickly in a 'snappy' motion

The front end should lift up, and once it's in the air you can keep on lifting it up/pull it back. Whilst this is happening hang your bum over the seat.

Bit hard to explain, but if you have done all this stuff as intended you should easily be able to lift the front end high enough to fall off the back. Ideally you either balance or put the rear brake on to avoid this though!

The whole idea is that you are not lifting the front end up, you are rotating the whole bike under you - it needs to come forwards as well. I find that by pushing down and away on the bars THEN lifting, I can get the front end much higher than if I just yank upwards on them.

joshtp

iv never been able to do it, but in the latest MBUK there is a sentance that went like this. "try scooping the front up by rolling your rists down and back up" i went out and landed on my back, i was chuffed i can finaly get my front up high enough, and im getting close to contrloing it well now too! finaly after almost 6 months of trying one sentance changed it all!

flamedude

I think you just need the confidence to really lean back and then pull to get the nose up. Really really pull back and then use that back brake to control it, your speed or gradient to keep it going.

Its different to wheelies though I think and standing up rather than sitting down might take a little while getting used to as your centre of gravity will be higher. Practice but don't practice too hard, sometimes not doing something for a few days and going back to it yields amazing results. Some sort of muscle memory mularky going on or something.

MountainPete

Thanks all again for the help! I think if I ever crack this I will write an idiot's guide to manualling so I can't forget!

DVV - I will endeavour to master the 'snap' action. I think this is the key to the whole thing, along with getting in the frame of mind that you are pusing the bike forwards and up from underneath you, rather than moving yourself backwards.

Salsa

There is no idiots guide to manualling, the only way to learn it to master all the parts of it which only comes with practice. That's the key, practice & a whole lot of it.

It's basically this >
Pull/scoop up super smooth straight into the balance point.
Train your brain to know how & when to pump & shift your weight.
Manual.

That sounds easy but it isn't, as between learning that you have to find the position/style that works for your body & your bike, then keep modifying your technique until it finally all comes together. Some people manual with their body right back & the front wheel barely off the ground, others like me prefer the front high & my body squished forward.
You can also get to what you think is real near to doing them, perhaps going 10-20 metres but even at that point your probably still not on the perfect sweet spot for the balance.
When I do a decent length manual (& I can do a few hundred metres on a good one) I pump a little at the start then I glide moving my body very little if at all.

I used to be stuck at 10-20 metre ones for ages then I just went to a car park & practiced nothing else for a couple of hours about 3 days in a row. This helped no end & by the third day I was doing the whole car park everytime.

Maybe start with an easy one like the wheelie. XC bikes are easy to do this on as you can put your seat up then use the back brake to find the extreme of the balance point. You can then stop peddling when you hit it & lean back once you drop & dab brake when you tip back. These coaster manuals are pretty easy & can be perfected in a few weeks, plus they still look quite cool. You can then drop your seat & move onto real manuals which can take a lot longer to learn.

bikeperson45

Really the move is down to practise. Really kick your bum back and get over the rear hub, practise on grass if your scared of going over the back, remember pulling the rear brake lowers the front immediatly.

Great trials website, section on manuals and wheelies - http://www.trashzen.com/wheeling.php

MountainPete

I had another bash at this today. My wheelies are getting better, and although they are far from perfect I feel like I am more in control.

I tried to lift the front wheel as high as I could but I still couldn't get it much higher than a foot. More practice needed I think!

supertwisted

Thought I'd bump an old thread rather than starting a new one.

MtnPete - did you ever manage to perfect it?

After deciding it's a skill that's eluded me long enough, I've been spending my lunch hours at work trying to get it down (or up more accurately).

I've read this thread and numerous how-tos but I'm making slow progress so far. And that progress consists of either jerking the wheel 3 inches off the ground or looping out and grabbing a fist full of rear brake in panic.

How long did it take everyone else to learn?

MountainPete

I haven't yet 'perfected' it, but the practice I put in did make my front wheel a bit more lively. I did have a few moments of brilliance where it all clicked, but I am still working on holding a manual for any decent period of time!

xtreem

[b]supertwisted[/b] wrote:

How long did it take everyone else to learn?

1 year and still learning it. :evil:
Can't seem to get a decent distance of 100yards, too hard.

Have to say that pulling a 2ft bunnyhop was easier than even learning to wheelie. :roll:

supertwisted

Sounds like it's going to take some work then.

I'm ok with trackstands and bunnyhops, it's just this last thing I can't make any progress on.

Tyredocter

In the seventies we did this with single speeds! The secret is body position and the right handlebars- try falling off the back of your saddle then pull up the bars before your backside kisses tyre Six bike lengths was the norm then, one lad could do it with his front wheel off He yanked the bars' up and cycled down the street. It tends to work best on flat roads The art was lost in the eighties sadly The lads did wheelies to annoy police or impress the lassies, or if you had a puncture or a mashed a front wheel Even had wheelie races back then too Sadly could not do it so was laughed at, never mind :oops:

hard-rider

Today I decided to try learn manuals with the view of ultimately learning the bunnyhop. I spent about 30-40 mins in the underground car park out of sight in case I embarrass myself :oops:

At first I couldn't lift the front wheel more than a foot off the ground and I could feel the strain on my arms and shoulders trying to pull the bike up. I had a few moments of glory where I pulled the front right up and then panicked as I thought I was going over the back. The strange thing is on those occasions the front seemed to come up so easy. It made me realise that it's not so much how hard you pull up on the front but more how much weight you shift over the rear while pulling up. Even so I still couldn't do it at will and the short manuals I did achieve are still more fluke than skill.

Plenty more practice...

Simon430

I'm fairly good at wheeling, I can hold them for as long as i wish now, has taken years to master. And from experience, wheeling is mainly linking up the push of the legs and pulling the arms up, then balancing that with less pressure on the cranks if going over the back and more if the front end is dropping, also with rear brake dabs to regulate the speed.

Manualling on the other hand is something an art i'm still mastering getting fairly comfortable with it now, but to start off what's everyone bike's they are trying to do this on? I tried on my GT avalanche and i can maybe do 5m, but nothing spectacular. With my 24/7 aka street bike, i can pull 30m manuals. Getting the manual down is down to the hips and leg movement constantly moving yourself never sitting still, unlike the wheelie where once settled can hold that position for 5secs maybe more. Being very gentle with the rear brake is also a must, don't jab it all on unless needed, small progressive dabs just to get the front end to drop a little.

Hope my advice helps,
Simon

Northwind

For ages I just couldn't quite get enough height on to find the balance point... I can pedal up to the balance point but I couldn't do the weight shift thing, it'd just bounce up and fall back.

So 3 weeks ago I really went for it, and looped the bike completely and broke my ar&e. It still hurts. So DON'T DO THAT.

stanfree

This is on my wish lift of things to perfect on my bike along with landing the wheels at the same time from drop offs / jump. The manual at the end of the collective ROAM movie is probably one of the coolest i've seen. My mate who is buying a Sunday cruiser Bmx and who was always pretty decent a wheelies even in the old days on his Grifter will probably nail the technique in a day. :-(

RealMan

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBb6H9FsHh0

at 0:33? Looks effortless.

hard-rider

I guess the geometry of the bike has quite a bit to do with how easy it is to pull a manual. My Scott Scale which is classed as an XC race bike may be a little more difficult due to the more forward posture compared to say a jump bike. I did do a couple of fluke manuals so it is possible but it's just nailing the knack of pulling and getting your weight to shift at the right time.

I suppose it'll be one of those things that you can just try and try and not get anywhere and then suddenly it all falls into place and just works.