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Who did better in this Tour De France - Cav or Brad

DoubleTopDoubleTop Posts: 48
edited August 2009 in Road beginners
Who did better Mark '6 stages this year, 10 overall' Cavendish or Super Bradley ' Wiggo' Wiggins for get 4th in GC?

Cav or Brad 0 votes

Cav - 6 stage wins this year/10 stage wins overall
0% 0 votes
Brad - 4th in GC
0% 0 votes
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Posts

  • while its impressive and all with Cav's win. They really arent a surprise, let alone much of an improvement on his ride last year in the TdF aside from him making it to paris and improving a bit on his climbing.

    Now Wiggo on the other hand, if you think that Cav did better than Wiggo in terms of riding in this years TdF. I suggest you look at his placing, what the critics said, and his overall performance and where came he from in terms of form last year
  • xraymtbxraymtb Posts: 121
    I vote Cav.

    If you look at this years tour, Wiggins was beaten every day by other riders - he didn't win anything - no stage victories, no TT victories, didn't make the podium etc.

    Cav on the other hand, won 100% of the bunch sprints where the field came home together - now that has to be more impressive?
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  • Dess1eDess1e Posts: 239
    Both exceded our and they're expectations, in two different competions. Chapeau to both.
  • Frank the tankFrank the tank Posts: 6,553
    Dess1e wrote:
    Both exceded our and they're expectations, in two different competions. Chapeau to both.

    Chapeau to both. I'm not sure Cav actually did exceed expectations though, 'cos I think everyone knew he was the fastest man in the world over 250m after a 110mile "warm up" :wink:
    Tail end Charlie

    The above post may contain traces of sarcasm or/and bullsh*t.
  • Frank the tankFrank the tank Posts: 6,553
    xraymtb wrote:
    I vote Cav.

    If you look at this years tour, Wiggins was beaten every day by other riders - he didn't win anything - no stage victories, no TT victories, didn't make the podium etc.

    Cav on the other hand, won 100% of the bunch sprints where the field came home together - now that has to be more impressive?

    OTOH, Wiggins finished 4th in the race GC, whereas Cav was closer to the "lantern rouge" than he was the yellow jersey.

    You could say Cav won six battles but Wiggo got a better overall result in the war.
    Tail end Charlie

    The above post may contain traces of sarcasm or/and bullsh*t.
  • softladsoftlad Posts: 3,513
    DoubleTop wrote:
    Who did better Mark '6 stages this year, 10 overall' Cavendish or Super Bradley ' Wiggo' Wiggins for get 4th in GC?

    you cannot compare the two performances - so nobody did 'better'.....

    Cav was never in contention for the overall - Wiggins was never in contention for any of the sprints, so the question has no meaning.
  • bigmatbigmat Posts: 5,132
    Bit harsh softlad - I think its a good question! Both did amazingly well.

    I think Cav will have been delighted with his 6 wins, particularly the last 2 which were both awesome sprints. To make it to Paris and finish his first grand tour was also a major achievement. However, he will have been disappointed to have failed (been robbed?!) in his green jersey effort and was by his own admission very disappointed with the second week.

    For Wiggo, he massively exceeded most people's (and probably his own) expectations, arriving as a GC contender in spectacular fashion and equalling the best ever finish by a British rider.

    Overall, I'd have to say that Wiggo will be happier with his performance, did more to boost his standing in the sport and in years to come it is more likely that we will look back on his performance in the 2009 tour as the stand-out one (if only because Cav will go on to win the green jersy and many more stages in years to come).
  • AidanRAidanR Posts: 1,142
    I vote Cav.

    In terms of expectations, Wiggo came from nowhere so he wins that. But in terms of objective performance, 6 stage wins is a remarkable feat, bettered only by a handful of riders. Someone finishes 4th every tour, but rarely does someone win 6 stages.
    Bike lover and part-time cyclist.
  • softladsoftlad Posts: 3,513
    MatHammond wrote:
    Bit harsh softlad - I think its a good question! Both did amazingly well.

    not harsh at all, just true. Both were riding for different outcomes, so it is not reasonable to compare their performances....
  • Smokin JoeSmokin Joe Posts: 2,706
    softlad wrote:
    MatHammond wrote:
    Bit harsh softlad - I think its a good question! Both did amazingly well.

    not harsh at all, just true. Both were riding for different outcomes, so it is not reasonable to compare their performances....
    +1
  • HornettoHornetto Posts: 141
    On that basis my vote is for Brad.

    Cav went into the Tour with expectation of getting 4/5 stage wins including Paris, knowing he had the team to support him. He got 6 including Paris, so slightly exceeded expectations.

    Brad went into it with expectations that a top 20 finish in GC would be a good achievement. He finished 4th ahead of some very very good riders, narrowly missing the podium, and completely outperformed expectations especially in the mountains.

    In terms of what was expected and what was delivered I think Brad had the better Tour.

    Great effort by both though, not often that there is an argument to be had about which British riders did best in the Tour!
    Never argue with an idiot - they drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience
  • TempestasTempestas Posts: 486
    Wiggins gets my vote, he wore the green jersey just like Cav did and then went on to finish highly overall.
  • softladsoftlad Posts: 3,513
    Tempestas wrote:
    Wiggins gets my vote, he wore the green jersey just like Cav did and then went on to finish highly overall.

    please, this is such a load of bollox - Wiggins wore it by default for finishing 3rd in the prologue...
  • kingstongrahamkingstongraham Posts: 22,690
    Cav slightly exceeded expectations? He won every single stage a sprinter could have done. Given he was going for stage wins, he couldn't have done more.

    But the race isn't just about stage wins - I'd say anyone in the top 10 gets more kudos than individual stage winners.
  • xraymtbxraymtb Posts: 121
    More kudos than individual stage winners - yes

    More kudos than a 6 time individual stage winner - not so sure
    exercise.png
  • TempestasTempestas Posts: 486
    edited July 2009
    softlad wrote:
    Tempestas wrote:
    Wiggins gets my vote, he wore the green jersey just like Cav did and then went on to finish highly overall.

    please, this is such a load of bollox - Wiggins wore it by default for finishing 3rd in the prologue...

    and your point is? Cav wore it for finishing a few sprints in front....they both wore it because they qualified to wear it.
  • EdZedEdZed Posts: 119
    Wiggo edges it for me in this year's TdF. Yes, he could have done a little better in the TTs.

    And yes Cav also exceeded expectations by winning 6 stages, but he had an entire team supporting and riding for him virtually 100% of the time. Whereas Wiggo's team were not able to provide him with anything like as much support, Vande Velde was recovering from injury but did the best he could in the mountains, but Wiggo did a lot of it off his own back.

    I think it's more likely that history will remember Cav's achievements more readily, unless Wiggo wins the Tour and that's not highly likely (but not impossible). If he could improve his climbing again and get stronger climbing domestiques it might be possible, a fully fit Vande Velde will help, but I doubt we'll see such a massive improvement from Wiggo next time round (I hope I'm wrong with this statement). A little more tactical nous from his team wouldn't go amiss either - just look at Astana (ignoring the in-fighting) and Colombia for better examples.

    Ultimately we're nit-picking - both riders did extremely well and fully deserve the plaudits.
  • milton50milton50 Posts: 3,856
    It's hard to judge who did 'better' but in terms of improvement it simply has to be Wiggins.
  • giant_mangiant_man Posts: 6,878
    Climbers win tours, not sprinters ........ Wiggo done so damn well. Fantastic stuff, best TdeF in years.
  • guv001guv001 Posts: 688
    Cav - sponsors need wins not 4th places. I will add that they have both done really really well and I'm not trying to put BW achievements down at all.
  • mhukmhuk Posts: 327
    Both did exceptionally well.

    If I had to choose then if I were either of them, in 20 years time I think I'd like to say "I won 6 stages in 2009" rather than "I came 4th". Of course 4th is a stunning result but that's my reasoning for voting Cav. And his stage wins were bloody exciting to watch especially the last two.
  • DoubleTopDoubleTop Posts: 48
    It's a great question - I did vote for Cav myself. I do ride a Scott and wear a HTC shirt - sorry.
  • neebneeb Posts: 4,448
    Impossible to compare. Cav's results are more significant internationally and show that he is dominant in his specialty, but Wiggo "did better" in terms of exceeding expectations and turning himself into a genuine British grand tour contender... I didn't vote!
  • LorneCLorneC Posts: 149
    Both excellent performances - far exceeding expectations.

    I imagine that both may get a mention as possible candidates for BBC's SPOTY this year... I would imagine Cav would have the better shot at landing the prize as to the general public, the six stage wins will mean more than coming 4th overall.
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  • DoubleTopDoubleTop Posts: 48
    AidanR wrote:
    I vote Cav.

    In terms of expectations, Wiggo came from nowhere so he wins that. But in terms of objective performance, 6 stage wins is a remarkable feat, bettered only by a handful of riders. Someone finishes 4th every tour, but rarely does someone win 6 stages.

    I totally agree with the statement - Someone finishes 4th every tour, but rarely does someone win 6 stages. I do agree that Bradley was a great effort and in the future could be a winner - maybe?. The problem with the tour you have to be 1 of 3 riders - 1) a sprinter - thats Cav, 2) a mountain climber - could be Brad in the future or 3) a break away rider - that could be Miller. The TT (Time Trials) both single & team don't effect enough the results, in the end if you can't go up a mountain quicker than the rest you will never win the race.

    For me the 2009 tour was one the greatest I have ever watched - Cav winning 6, Brad getting 4th, the return of Armstrong, ok no alp de huez but we did get Mont Ventoux on the Saturday. If you ask me then the quality of racing every day was very,very high - excitement around every corner. I only been following the tour via either Eurosport, ITV, Channel 4 (I think) for the past 20+ years. I remember watch Greg LeMond (86) winning, then the following year Stephen Roche (that was great), then the power of Miguel Indurain to take 5 in a row, the Pirate 'Pantani' he could climb and then the greatest ever Lance 7 Armstong. Thank the tour, some many happy memories and so many more to come I hope.

    I still remember as a 5 yr, my mother taking me to the local pub (not to drink) but to wait around for what seemed ages as a 5yr old to see a bunch of men on a bike go past in a flash. At least I had a flag & paper hat to put on and a small bottle of milk to watch what was then called the 'Milk Race' - tour of Britian. I have asked my mum some many times can se remember the year - I have even tried to find the route for the course to work out what year it was.but rarely does someone win 6 stages.[/quote]
  • sampras38sampras38 Posts: 1,917
    I know I'll get shot down in flames for this but I'm really not that impressed with Cav as a Tour rider. Yes he's fast, very fast, probably the fastest we've ever had, but I'm personally more impressed with the complete riders than someone who sits in the pack for the whole stage, only to come alive for the last 500 metres.

    I appreciate that the Tour riders tend to specialise these days, and to an extent you can't help how you are are made physically, but all the Cav hype just doesn't do it for me at all.

    I was in france for the last week of the tour, and was at the top of the Colombiere just before the riders came through. The top guys, Schlecks, Lance, Wiggins, Kloden, contador came through, then "CavMan comes through about 130th. I appreciate he's not a climber but to only be good at one discipline that doesn't even make a dent in the tour, just doesn't do it for me.

    Why can't he Time Trial?

    and I ride a Scott..;-)

    I know I'm in a minority but hey..
  • snigsnig Posts: 428
    a bit of a noob point but on the tour all riders are not going for a stage win,maybe only 20% the rest are happy just to finish the stage to keep their GC place,so I would say wiggo did better as it 's a race to the end not just a stage,if I was Cav I would always have in the back of my mind did I win that stage cos another rider wasn't going for the win that day.

    but cavs 1 day race wins are impressive,at least you know he's racing all the field not just a few.
  • AnonymousAnonymous Posts: 79,667
    I'm just happy that we are in a situation whereby we can revel in the performances of two British riders!

    Both brilliant results!
  • 18921892 Posts: 1,690
    Brad, Cav's was a great achivement but he saved himself & finished a long way down the gc
    Justice for the 96
  • GarzGarz Posts: 1,155
    My worthless opinion would be wiggins did better.

    Firstly cav's younger and will surely win more stages, he was helped enormously by his team.
    Secondly wiggins has converted over from track, done well consistently and only just pipped off the podium finish in a shorter space of time for the tour. Wiggins was hardly the main man in the team too until the latter stages.

    Was gutted for cav though when the officials pissed on him! :(
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