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Do you believe Lance? He won't try to win this TDF?

donrhummydonrhummy Posts: 2,329
edited July 2009 in Pro race
Who here believes Lance when he says he can't win this tour and won't try anymore; he'll just try to help Contador?

Do you believe Lance that he won't try to win? 0 votes

Yes, he's going to be the perfect domestique.
0% 0 votes
Yes, but if he finds he's riding away (like Sastre vs Frank.Schleck last year) he'll go for it
0% 0 votes
No, he's going to keep trying until the last day
0% 0 votes
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Posts

  • RichN95.RichN95. Posts: 25,883
    I'm sure he'd keep going for it if he thought he could beat Contador, but he clearly can't and he's realised this.
    Twitter: @RichN95
  • Robmanic1Robmanic1 Posts: 2,150
    We're all familier with the "Armstrong bluff"? I dunno, he looked cooked yesterday but you just can't ever write him off, Bertie looks unstoppable but I reckon if he shows any weakness at all LA will step up a gear (I'm not a fanboy BTW).
    Pictures are better than words because some words are big and hard to understand.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/3336802663/
  • connackersconnackers Posts: 11
    edited July 2009
    He's going to have plenty of fans still expecting a victory... That pressure may be tough to ignore...

    http://www.livestrong.com/lance-armstro ... -stage-15/

    [see the comments from the ticker]
  • iainf72iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    He finished behind all the other favourites yesterday. Not just Contador, but even Evans who was on his "worst day ever"

    He knows he can't do it and it's better to just support Contador, because if he fades further he's got an excuse.

    Being a good team mate would be the best thing he could do now.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • Robmanic1Robmanic1 Posts: 2,150
    iainf72 wrote:
    Being a good team mate would be the best thing he could do now.

    Totally agree, thought he was (unusually) grascious after the stage yesterday, I really think he could do his image a great deal of good by supporting Bertie, but I'm just not sure his famed ego will allow it.
    Pictures are better than words because some words are big and hard to understand.

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/3336802663/
  • iainf72iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    He's also made statements about people being more positive towards him since he appears weaker and he likes it.

    He's many things, but he's not an idiot.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • alex16zxalex16zx Posts: 153
    I hope he keeps going cos I need the gap on bertie to come down a little bit one day so i can even up by bets :lol: then i hope contador goes on to win comfortably
  • dennisndennisn Posts: 10,584
    Never say never. It may, in fact, be working as planned. AC and LA pressuring each other until ONE of them wins it. Could be the plan. It's not the "conventional team wisdom" but............
  • drenkromdrenkrom Posts: 1,062
    If he follows any form of logic, he'll slide into the super-domestique role. I was surprised to hear him admit what everyone had already concluded: that there is no way he'll beat Contador in a straight fight. And, as Iain said, he lost time to everyone, not just Contador. The left brain should dictate he eat a little humble pie and become a teammate. Then again, Armstrong has a reputation for letting the brain he lost 50% of to cancer take the decisions sometimes. :roll:

    As for fans' expectations, they mean absolutely zero when the legs are on the limit. And they were yesterday. Certaintly.
  • Jez monJez mon Posts: 3,809
    For sure he's not an Idiot, but OTOH, he has a rather large ego, as one might expect, given he's a 7 time winner of this race. I don't feel he'll slide into the super-dom role, but rather do what he can to keep hold of second place and hope that Contador slips up.

    Of course, whether he can hold onto second is not clear, I don't think he can but I do expect him to at least try.
    You live and learn. At any rate, you live
  • chriskemptonchriskempton Posts: 1,245
    I think his team should now be worried that any continued support of LA might lead to them losing the win. Yesterday's extraordinary pacing of some of their rivals by Kloden in a vain attempt to bring back the supposed team leader AC was a bad tactical error when LA apparently doesn't have what it takes. Imagine if Contador has a bad day or a crash and they end up giving the race to Wiggins (i know, assuming BW doesn't have a bad day).

    Lance looks like he knows his number's up, and he'll surely want to keep some dignity and go out as the loyal teammate.
  • SunWuKongSunWuKong Posts: 364
    He knows there are a few stronger than him this year however if the chance arose then he'll go for it and I don't see any reason why he shouldn't. I just hope Wiggins continues to ride well in the mountains and hammers the TT and bumps himself up to second place. I also think if Kloden no longer has to mind LA he could take a podium place ahead of him. Interesting to see what the Schlecks do.
  • Stuey01Stuey01 Posts: 1,273
    Astana may well be riding for 1,2,3 in which case it is in their interest to keep Kloden and Armstrong up there pushing hard so they don't lose much time to their rivals.

    It is feasible that they know AC is so far ahead of everyone else that he will win it whatever.

    Also, at the moment if AC goes down hard and gets hurt then they'd still have Lance in yellow and Kloden up there in third, looks like insurance on an Astana GC win to me.

    Maybe they are just so damn strong they can break with the conventional wisdom of one leader and all others sacrificing themselves.
    Not climber, not sprinter, not rouleur
  • Le CommentateurLe Commentateur Posts: 4,099
    I wonder if Astana team tactics will be distorted by a desire to keep Lance in contention for a podium placing, which may to a degree leave Contador to fend for himself.

    Well, actually this is what has been happening for the past 2 weeks, so Saxo Bank really have to exploit this conflict of interests somehow. Make Armstrong (or Klöden?) cover an attack and see if he can be tempted to take time out of Contador ahead of the ITT.

    Wiggins and Armstrong seem to have a lot in common regarding strengths/weaknesses in the remaining stages. Would they cooperate to fend off Saxo Bank & others.
  • timoid.timoid. Posts: 3,133
    If Kloeden had been given his head, he'd be in second place now and Armstrong would have lost 3 minutes on that stage. He should be Astana's insurance policy in the event of a Bertie tumble.

    But Armstrong won't give up. He'll be goofed up and ready to go come Tuesday.
    It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.
  • donrhummydonrhummy Posts: 2,329
    Can I also ask a question: This year Armstrong has gotten a lot of flak for trying to win and beat his own teammate and attacking Contador on that flat stage (even though that's not what happened). Yet last year, Sastre was not widely criticized on this forum for taking yellow off Frank. Why?
  • timoid.timoid. Posts: 3,133
    donrhummy wrote:
    Can I also ask a question: This year Armstrong has gotten a lot of flak for trying to win and beat his own teammate and attacking Contador on that flat stage (even though that's not what happened). Yet last year, Sastre was not widely criticized on this forum for taking yellow off Frank. Why?


    Because he was team leader and the best hope of winning the overall once Andy had blown.
    It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.
  • mididoctorsmididoctors Posts: 11,067

    Wiggins and Armstrong seem to have a lot in common regarding strengths/weaknesses in the remaining stages. Would they cooperate to fend off Saxo Bank & others.

    I could see Astana working with garmin to contain andy...

    whether its kloden or lance?

    kloden actually struggled a bit on some of the stepper grades stage 15..

    I think Astana is vulnerable.. how juiced up (if at all) they are come tue? I don't know.. i suspect fatigue still counts

    both Kloden and lance are going to get stuck to the Romme. whether wiggo does as well??

    Lance on the ventoux is going to be excruciating to watch is my guess.....
    "If I was a 38 year old man, I definitely wouldn't be riding a bright yellow bike with Hello Kitty disc wheels, put it that way. What we're witnessing here is the world's most high profile mid-life crisis" Afx237vi Mon Jul 20, 2009 2:43 pm
  • deejaydeejay Posts: 3,138
    donrhummy wrote:
    Can I also ask a question: This year Armstrong has gotten a lot of flak for trying to win and beat his own teammate and attacking Contador on that flat stage (even though that's not what happened). Yet last year, Sastre was not widely criticized on this forum for taking yellow off Frank. Why?

    Because Frank is not a TDF winner and last year all he worried about was one second to get the yellow jersey.
    He got his Yellow and was happy and his brother Andy appeared to be hurrying him on for greater glory.
    This year the brothers sorted something out and it was Andy that won at Liege. Sorted. !!
    The Saxo main man is Andy and if their dark horse suddenly go's up the Ventoux like we saw yesterday and then beats Contador the team won't mind another winner.
    It is possible you know in a one to one with Alberto, for Sastre to win again as I think he is the only other rider capable.
    A nice dream then of Alberto, Andy and Carlos fighting it out on the Ventoux.
    All this Rubbish about the Old Man winning is just Fanboys and Media Hype.
    He will not Win The Tour de France and I've been saying this since the beginning of the year when he took part in the California Preamble.
    He has never Won a Tour de France when he has had 6 months racing beforehand.
    He was just, never that good and nothing has improved for him to do it this year.
    You think he might be a voluntary domestique and I think he will need all his energy to get to Paris. That will be the achievement.
    Time to ride off into the Sunset then, bye, bye.
    It hasn't been nice knowing you.
    .
    Organiser, National Championship 50 mile Time Trial 1972
  • dennisndennisn Posts: 10,584
    deejay wrote:
    donrhummy wrote:
    Can I also ask a question: This year Armstrong has gotten a lot of flak for trying to win and beat his own teammate and attacking Contador on that flat stage (even though that's not what happened). Yet last year, Sastre was not widely criticized on this forum for taking yellow off Frank. Why?

    Because Frank is not a TDF winner and last year all he worried about was one second to get the yellow jersey.
    He got his Yellow and was happy and his brother Andy appeared to be hurrying him on for greater glory.
    This year the brothers sorted something out and it was Andy that won at Liege. Sorted. !!
    The Saxo main man is Andy and if their dark horse suddenly go's up the Ventoux like we saw yesterday and then beats Contador the team won't mind another winner.
    It is possible you know in a one to one with Alberto, for Sastre to win again as I think he is the only other rider capable.
    A nice dream then of Alberto, Andy and Carlos fighting it out on the Ventoux.

    You think he might be a voluntary domestique and I think he will need all his energy to get to Paris. That will be the achievement.
    .

    Are you trying to tell us that the 2nd. place rider in the tour has not much chance of reaching Paris? The very fact that he is in 2nd., after 15 stages, no matter who he is,
    ought to tell you something about just how capable he is of a podium finish. Maybe together they will both trash the rest of the field? Who can say what will happen?
  • girofangirofan Posts: 137
    It will be like Hinault and Lemond all over again! Armstrong's ego will be riding for him in the remaining stages.
    I say what I like and I like what I say!
  • MettanMettan Posts: 2,103
    He knows Bert's the stronger man - Lance, will keep going though, although he knows it would take a miricale to beat Bert.

    Will Lance come back next year?
  • dennisndennisn Posts: 10,584
    Mettan wrote:

    Will Lance come back next year?

    Maybe? It's got to be hard to quit racing when you've spent the better part of your life at it.
    Looks like he's having a good time at it to me. Seems to be always smiling(well, almost always), joking with other riders, etc. He's in his element. The big show and all that.
    I'd stay at it until I didn't want to "stay at it" anymore. Long as someone would hire me
    and I still enjoyed it, why not? Sort of like an old boxer who can't seem to stay out of the ring.
  • deejaydeejay Posts: 3,138
    dennisn wrote:
    Are you trying to tell us that the 2nd. place rider in the tour has not much chance of reaching Paris? The very fact that he is in 2nd., after 15 stages, no matter who he is,
    ought to tell you something about just how capable he is of a podium finish. Maybe together they will both trash the rest of the field? Who can say what will happen?

    Oh I'm sorry I didn't know you thought this has been a Race. ?????
    Yes for sure that's what I'm saying. and I know who the bum is and christ I've had to listen to him for 15 years when he first arrived here.

    My Impression was this has been a Neutralised Amble to the start of the 2nd "Dauphine Libre" this year and the Neutrali Flag was only dropped yesterday.
    I got this impression because of all unkown riders winning so many stages plus the usual crop of sprint wins and if it wasn't for the Time Trials then the Whole Peloton would be on the same Time after 15 stages. Not much of an endurance race this year then. (isn't he a lucky boy)
    They Finally start to race and then have a Rest Day and so the next couple of days are the only chance to have Back to Back Mountain Stages and Hopefully some Racing.

    Your post only go's to show what a Compost Heap this Tour has been for a Haggered old man to still be up there. (yes I know I'm an even worse haggered old man.

    As I said before.
    Armstrong is not a good enough rider to win a Tour de France after a 6 month season beforehand and he has never done it.
    So why do you expect the Impossible now. ?????
    Only the Greats can do that and some would ride the 6 day winter races also.
    Organiser, National Championship 50 mile Time Trial 1972
  • dennisndennisn Posts: 10,584
    deejay wrote:
    dennisn wrote:
    Are you trying to tell us that the 2nd. place rider in the tour has not much chance of reaching Paris? The very fact that he is in 2nd., after 15 stages, no matter who he is,
    ought to tell you something about just how capable he is of a podium finish. Maybe together they will both trash the rest of the field? Who can say what will happen?

    Oh I'm sorry I didn't know you thought this has been a Race. ?????
    Yes for sure that's what I'm saying. and I know who the bum is and christ I've had to listen to him for 15 years when he first arrived here.

    My Impression was this has been a Neutralised Amble to the start of the 2nd "Dauphine Libre" this year and the Neutrali Flag was only dropped yesterday.
    I got this impression because of all unkown riders winning so many stages plus the usual crop of sprint wins and if it wasn't for the Time Trials then the Whole Peloton would be on the same Time after 15 stages. Not much of an endurance race this year then. (isn't he a lucky boy)
    They Finally start to race and then have a Rest Day and so the next couple of days are the only chance to have Back to Back Mountain Stages and Hopefully some Racing.

    Your post only go's to show what a Compost Heap this Tour has been for a Haggered old man to still be up there. (yes I know I'm an even worse haggered old man.

    As I said before.
    Armstrong is not a good enough rider to win a Tour de France after a 6 month season beforehand and he has never done it.
    So why do you expect the Impossible now. ?????
    Only the Greats can do that and some would ride the 6 day winter races also.


    All righty then. Thanks for clearing that up. :wink::wink:
  • rockmountrockmount Posts: 761
    dennisn wrote:
    deejay wrote:
    dennisn wrote:
    Are you trying to tell us that the 2nd. place rider in the tour has not much chance of reaching Paris? The very fact that he is in 2nd., after 15 stages, no matter who he is,
    ought to tell you something about just how capable he is of a podium finish. Maybe together they will both trash the rest of the field? Who can say what will happen?

    Oh I'm sorry I didn't know you thought this has been a Race. ?????
    Yes for sure that's what I'm saying. and I know who the bum is and christ I've had to listen to him for 15 years when he first arrived here.

    My Impression was this has been a Neutralised Amble to the start of the 2nd "Dauphine Libre" this year and the Neutrali Flag was only dropped yesterday.
    I got this impression because of all unkown riders winning so many stages plus the usual crop of sprint wins and if it wasn't for the Time Trials then the Whole Peloton would be on the same Time after 15 stages. Not much of an endurance race this year then. (isn't he a lucky boy)
    They Finally start to race and then have a Rest Day and so the next couple of days are the only chance to have Back to Back Mountain Stages and Hopefully some Racing.

    Your post only go's to show what a Compost Heap this Tour has been for a Haggered old man to still be up there. (yes I know I'm an even worse haggered old man.

    As I said before.
    Armstrong is not a good enough rider to win a Tour de France after a 6 month season beforehand and he has never done it.
    So why do you expect the Impossible now. ?????
    Only the Greats can do that and some would ride the 6 day winter races also.


    All righty then. Thanks for clearing that up. :wink::wink:
    Yeah Dennis ... I'm surprised you didn't know, you should have entered, you would have been two or three hours ahead by now :wink::wink:

    I really don't know about all this stuff, seriously, are they suggesting no one is actually trying to win ?? :roll: :roll:
    .. who said that, internet forum people ?
  • brad68brad68 Posts: 883
    deejay wrote:
    dennisn wrote:
    Are you trying to tell us that the 2nd. place rider in the tour has not much chance of reaching Paris? The very fact that he is in 2nd., after 15 stages, no matter who he is,
    ought to tell you something about just how capable he is of a podium finish. Maybe together they will both trash the rest of the field? Who can say what will happen?

    Oh I'm sorry I didn't know you thought this has been a Race. ?????
    Yes for sure that's what I'm saying. and I know who the bum is and christ I've had to listen to him for 15 years when he first arrived here.

    My Impression was this has been a Neutralised Amble to the start of the 2nd "Dauphine Libre" this year and the Neutrali Flag was only dropped yesterday.
    I got this impression because of all unkown riders winning so many stages plus the usual crop of sprint wins and if it wasn't for the Time Trials then the Whole Peloton would be on the same Time after 15 stages. Not much of an endurance race this year then. (isn't he a lucky boy)
    They Finally start to race and then have a Rest Day and so the next couple of days are the only chance to have Back to Back Mountain Stages and Hopefully some Racing.

    Your post only go's to show what a Compost Heap this Tour has been for a Haggered old man to still be up there. (yes I know I'm an even worse haggered old man.

    As I said before.
    Armstrong is not a good enough rider to win a Tour de France after a 6 month season beforehand and he has never done it.
    So why do you expect the Impossible now. ?????
    Only the Greats can do that and some would ride the 6 day winter races also.


    Did Lance used to beat you up at school????.............................You really are a mug!
    Bc
  • deejaydeejay Posts: 3,138
    dennisn wrote:

    All righty then. Thanks for clearing that up. :wink::wink:

    Now the Show should begin and we find out who is who this year and we all cross our fingers about our thoughts and convictions. :arrow: :arrow: To Paris.
    Organiser, National Championship 50 mile Time Trial 1972
  • Jez monJez mon Posts: 3,809
    Lance'll have a tough time reaching Paris? What about the guys who clearly didn't get the memo saying that this was an easy race? Guys like Kenny Van Hummel who is already 3 hours behind. :roll:

    Yes, Lance is still reaping the benefits of being able to hitch a ride on Columbia's 9 man break all the way back in week one of this race, but he has kept up well in the mountains, and people need to realise that!

    At the end of the day, there has been proper racing, it's just been sporadic and too thin on the ground for my liking. The racing has shown what many suspected, Contador is the strongest climber, Lance has shown he knows where to stay in the peleton and the rest of the contenders have shown that they either suffer from weak teams (Sastre and Evans) or just generally seem to lack (Menchov Schleck et al)
    You live and learn. At any rate, you live
  • GeorgeShawGeorgeShaw Posts: 764
    Just remind me. Has Lance actually passed anybody of significance on a hill in either the Giro or Tour this year?
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