What options are there if a 30 triple isn't low enough ?

sherer
sherer Posts: 2,460
edited July 2009 in Workshop
At the moment i'm riding a triple with a 30-39-53 on the front and a 11-27 at the back. On some climbs i'm finding I still can't keep spinning with the 30-27 and so wondering if there are any other options for me.

I have Shimano Ultegra on the bike and their website says I have the lowest gearing they do at the moment already.

I saw a few people on my last ride with highbrids and MTB gearing. I like gaving the 39-53 and want to keep that as that helps when I am going quicker but would love to be able to fit something like a 28-27 on the front instead of the 30. Is that possible ?
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Comments

  • Jamey
    Jamey Posts: 2,152
    Why not get a MTB rear mech and have an 11-32t cassette?

    That would basically replicate the set-up I've got on my Tricross:

    30-39-52 Triple at the front (Tiagra mech)
    11-32t Cassette at the back (Deore LX long-cage mech)

    Then you've got a granny ring and a dinner-plate cassette... Looking at a big hill? Granny's coming to dinner, baby. Wooh!

    ;)
    My photography // My helmet cam videos // My bike
  • alfablue
    alfablue Posts: 8,497
    Yep, thats what I did on my Audax/tourer. Ultegra 9 speed shifters and triple chainset, got an XT rear mech s/h for £10 and a SRAM 11-32 cassette (or could get 11-34 for the ultimate low). Total cost around £40. Can climb any hill even when loaded.
  • sherer
    sherer Posts: 2,460
    thanks for that. Will ask at the LBS and see if they can get this done for me.

    Need them to take a look as I think I have stretched my cables as it won't stay in gear when I am on the lower cogs at moment. Took bike apart to take put it in a bike box and when I got back to the UK not shifting as well now.

    Thanks again for the advice
  • will3
    will3 Posts: 2,173
    Maybe get off and push? In such a low gear you won't be going much faster than walking pace anyway.
  • Jamey
    Jamey Posts: 2,152
    Alfa - will my Deore LX long cage mech take an 11-34t cassette? I might be tempted in future, for the ultimate in lazyboy riding :)
    My photography // My helmet cam videos // My bike
  • sherer
    sherer Posts: 2,460
    will3 wrote:
    Maybe get off and push? In such a low gear you won't be going much faster than walking pace anyway.

    i've been doing a lot of walking already. I would much rather ride than walk but I find on some hills once I get down to about 5 mph I just can't keep going. I think with a lower gear and being able to keep spinning I could at least keep going even if it is slow.
  • Jamey
    Jamey Posts: 2,152
    Slight aside, looking at Shimano's site I can see the following info for Deore mechs:

    Maximum Sprocket 34T
    Minimum Sprocket 11T
    Front Difference 22T maximum
    Total Capacity 45T

    So does that mean the mech will take an 11-34t cassette simply because the minimum says 11t and the max says 34t or does the 22t difference mean you could only have an 11-33t or a 12-34t?

    And what does the 45t total capacity mean?
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  • alfablue
    alfablue Posts: 8,497
    I dunno what it means exactly, but my g/f has an 11-34 working fine with an XT mech (indeed this is often the standard setup on new mtb's) - I presume this would have the same capacities as Deore. (Shimano's specs are conservative, you can usually exceed what they say by a tooth or two, for example I have a Dura Ace rear mech, said to be limited to 27 and it runs fine on my 11-28 SRAM cassette). It seems quite easy to find good s/h XT mechs, I got two for £10 and £15 (classifieds on here and eBay). They are long-lasting bits of kit so they seem fairly low risk s/h purchases, may need jockey wheels, but mine were fine.
  • Jamey
    Jamey Posts: 2,152
    Cheers.

    All the pictures I see of XT rear mechs show it without a barrel adjuster, like this:

    20698.jpg

    Is that just how they come? Do you need to rely on the barrel adjuster on the downtube?
    My photography // My helmet cam videos // My bike
  • alfablue
    alfablue Posts: 8,497
    I'm pretty sure it would come with an ajuster. Is that an XT shadow? I have been using older XT mechs, like this one

    18811_062653.jpg, can be had for £30 new
  • Jamey
    Jamey Posts: 2,152
    That pic was from ChainReaction and was listed as normal XT, not Shadow.

    But will look at the ones in your pic from now on, ta.
    My photography // My helmet cam videos // My bike
  • chuckcork
    chuckcork Posts: 1,471
    will3 wrote:
    Maybe get off and push? In such a low gear you won't be going much faster than walking pace anyway.

    Last 2 steep hills I went up were 18% (White Down) and 21% (Horse Block Hollow), both in the Surrey Hills. I managed to get up them with a 39T/25 combination, and I'm not exactly a lightweight at near 80kg. I know others in the club who've done the 18%with a FGSS.

    Can I suggest the solution is that you need to increase you strength and ability to climb, which in the end will allow you to climb pretty much any hill you'll come across? Not easy but the strength gain will make it worth it.
    'Twas Mulga Bill, from Eaglehawk, that caught the cycling craze....
  • alfablue
    alfablue Posts: 8,497
    CRC have that long cage XT mech for £29.99 - I linked it above.
  • alfablue
    alfablue Posts: 8,497
    chuckcork wrote:
    will3 wrote:
    Maybe get off and push? In such a low gear you won't be going much faster than walking pace anyway.

    Last 2 steep hills I went up were 18% (White Down) and 21% (Horse Block Hollow), both in the Surrey Hills. I managed to get up them with a 39T/25 combination, and I'm not exactly a lightweight at near 80kg. I know others in the club who've done the 18%with a FGSS.

    Can I suggest the solution is that you need to increase you strength and ability to climb, which in the end will allow you to climb pretty much any hill you'll come across? Not easy but the strength gain will make it worth it.
    I can do any hill with a compact with 28 sprocket, but I am prone to achiles tendonitis (which is often a precursor to achiles rupture), so when touring I use the triple with 11-32, I just don't want to risk a rupture (months in plaster and/or surgery, and possible limitations afterwards). Trouble is my muscles are much stronger than my tendons (loss of elasticity in the tendons is an age thing, unfortunately). In my experience, riding even in a tiny gear is still better than walking, and of course it will still develop your strength. IMHO better to keep riding with the necessary low gears, then progress to higher gears as you get stronger. I have a mental block on this - I never walk up any hill! :? Maybe when I get really old I will have to readjust my mindset!

    CAse in point, my g/f, a new rider, was walking up so many hills on her 11-26 cassette, and was just miserable about it. Changed to 11-34, she rides up everything. Now she is starting to stay in the middle ring on hills she once walked up, so the low gears have allowed her to progress whereas walking would not have let her develop.
  • Jamey
    Jamey Posts: 2,152
    Nice one, cheers.

    My current mech is working fine so I can't justify it at the moment but when I next need to buy a new cassette I might go for an 11-34t and use it as an excuse :)

    Also, I've got my Transfil Mudlovers (thanks again for the recommendation) all set up and working nicely and I don't like disconnecting mech cables any more than is strictly necessary. Brakes I'm happy to mess about with but indexing I like to do as little as possible.
    My photography // My helmet cam videos // My bike
  • alfablue
    alfablue Posts: 8,497
    Jamey wrote:
    Nice one, cheers.

    My current mech is working fine so I can't justify it at the moment but when I next need to buy a new cassette I might go for an 11-34t and use it as an excuse :)

    Also, I've got my Transfil Mudlovers (thanks again for the recommendation) all set up and working nicely and I don't like disconnecting mech cables any more than is strictly necessary. Brakes I'm happy to mess about with but indexing I like to do as little as possible.

    Hey 8)

    Yep, I understand wanting to leave well alone! Your current mech will probably stay working fine for many years though! I don't think I have ever worn one out, seem to be very long lasting components (except jockey wheels or damage).
  • sherer
    sherer Posts: 2,460
    alfablue wrote:
    chuckcork wrote:
    will3 wrote:
    Maybe get off and push? In such a low gear you won't be going much faster than walking pace anyway.

    Last 2 steep hills I went up were 18% (White Down) and 21% (Horse Block Hollow), both in the Surrey Hills. I managed to get up them with a 39T/25 combination, and I'm not exactly a lightweight at near 80kg. I know others in the club who've done the 18%with a FGSS.

    Can I suggest the solution is that you need to increase you strength and ability to climb, which in the end will allow you to climb pretty much any hill you'll come across? Not easy but the strength gain will make it worth it.
    I can do any hill with a compact with 28 sprocket, but I am prone to achiles tendonitis (which is often a precursor to achiles rupture), so when touring I use the triple with 11-32, I just don't want to risk a rupture (months in plaster and/or surgery, and possible limitations afterwards). Trouble is my muscles are much stronger than my tendons (loss of elasticity in the tendons is an age thing, unfortunately). In my experience, riding even in a tiny gear is still better than walking, and of course it will still develop your strength. IMHO better to keep riding with the necessary low gears, then progress to higher gears as you get stronger. I have a mental block on this - I never walk up any hill! :? Maybe when I get really old I will have to readjust my mindset!

    CAse in point, my g/f, a new rider, was walking up so many hills on her 11-26 cassette, and was just miserable about it. Changed to 11-34, she rides up everything. Now she is starting to stay in the middle ring on hills she once walked up, so the low gears have allowed her to progress whereas walking would not have let her develop.

    that is the sort of thing I am looking for. If you have too high gears and walk it doesn't get you anywhere. I have a compact on my training bike and a triple on my sportive bike and I can see some progress. I am a very thin, weed of a bloke so it takes me a very long time to make any progress and build the muscle, it just isn't in my body type. There is some progress but by seeing climbs when my legs are dead and knowing I can't get up is a killer, plus with the current gearing I am pushing myself too hard at the start of events.

    I'd rather have a 11-34T on the back and then at least be able to get up the climbs which will all help to lay down base miles in the legs. Once I have that I can that I can start to progress and get better. if I keep the current cassette and rear mech I can get them put back on the bike once I improve again.
  • Jamey
    Jamey Posts: 2,152
    alfablue wrote:
    Yep, I understand wanting to leave well alone! Your current mech will probably stay working fine for many years though! I don't think I have ever worn one out, seem to be very long lasting components (except jockey wheels or damage).

    True. And the current one will probably take an 11-34t anyway... It certainly copes fine with the 11-32t.

    Actually, that's made me think of an entirely new problem... Chain length... Currently my 'correct' chain length is 116 links - determined by running the chain around the big-big combination outside of the mechs and then adding one link.

    However, most chains only come supplied with 114 links (except KMC which supply with 116) and it seems a waste to buy a whole extra chain just to use a few of the links to bump up new chains to the correct length.

    I know I can get away with 114 and not use the big/big combo as that's exactly what I'm currently doing but if I went to 11-34t on the cassette I suspect I might have to avoid the second biggest combination as well as the biggest, perhaps.

    It's not a huge problem but if I was to forget one day while putting the hammer down over a short climb it could have very nasty consequences.
    My photography // My helmet cam videos // My bike
  • alfablue
    alfablue Posts: 8,497
    116 is a lot of links, is it a huge frame? Long chainstays?

    I would get the right length personally, though it may not be catastrophic if you didn't. You could go for a 3 pack of KMC chains from Merlin (decent price) and butcher one, will probably make 58 x 118 link chains for you, so the extra cost (£15?) will work out at 25p per chain over the years. Or maybe, ask on classifieds to see if people are willing to post you the links they removed from their KMC chains when fitting...may work, we're a helpful bunch.
  • John.T
    John.T Posts: 3,698
    Jamey wrote:
    Slight aside, looking at Shimano's site I can see the following info for Deore mechs:

    Maximum Sprocket 34T
    Minimum Sprocket 11T
    Front Difference 22T maximum
    Total Capacity 45T

    So does that mean the mech will take an 11-34t cassette simply because the minimum says 11t and the max says 34t or does the 22t difference mean you could only have an 11-33t or a 12-34t?

    And what does the 45t total capacity mean?
    Max sprocket - self explanetory.
    Min sprocket - ditto.
    Front difference - max difference between big and small chainrings.
    Total capacity - Total of chainring difference and cassette difference.
    53/39/30 is 23 so just over the max. Add in the 11/34 at also 23 you would be 1 tooth over max. Probably not significant.
    My Fleet.
  • Jamey
    Jamey Posts: 2,152
    Thanks John. Very helpful.

    Alfa - yes, my frame is big, 61cm Tricross Sport. I'm 6'4'' tall so I need a large frame. Good idea on the three-pack, I might go for that next time although I might do it with SRAM chains as I think I prefer them. The KMC I've got on there at the moment is my first one and I think the SRAM I had previously was smoother and quieter.
    My photography // My helmet cam videos // My bike
  • chuckcork
    chuckcork Posts: 1,471
    alfablue wrote:
    I have a mental block on this - I never walk up any hill! :?

    Me too, though I did find the 21% gradient to be getting me close to walking. It was only later that I realised, having struggled up it and thinking "boy, that was hard" that I realised that the last time I'd done a hill like that it was on my other, 34T/25 equipped bike. Made me feel quite good that did. :D
    'Twas Mulga Bill, from Eaglehawk, that caught the cycling craze....
  • Mettan
    Mettan Posts: 2,103
    Watch out with the 11/34 - its got a huge jump - think its 26 to 34 last two sprockets ? - the 11/32 's better with a 24/28/32 last three sprockets.
  • sherer
    sherer Posts: 2,460
    Mettan wrote:
    Watch out with the 11/34 - its got a huge jump - think its 26 to 34 last two sprockets ? - the 11/32 's better with a 24/28/32 last three sprockets.

    thanks for that. Will pop into the LBS at the weekend and see what they suggest with this. Hopefully it's just a short term thing to build on the fitness levels and then I can go back to the 11-27 on the back. I guess the cassette won't be ideal for finding a good riding gear as there will be more space between each gear .

    I'm not building any fitness with walking up hills :D
  • will3
    will3 Posts: 2,173
    http://www.electricbikes.org.uk/
  • chuckcork
    chuckcork Posts: 1,471
    will3 wrote:
    http://www.electricbikes.org.uk/

    Why muck around with a sissy electric bike? Be a man!

    http://ww1.honda.co.uk/motorcycles/
    'Twas Mulga Bill, from Eaglehawk, that caught the cycling craze....
  • 2alexcoo
    2alexcoo Posts: 251
    sherer wrote:
    Mettan wrote:
    Watch out with the 11/34 - its got a huge jump - think its 26 to 34 last two sprockets ? - the 11/32 's better with a 24/28/32 last three sprockets.

    thanks for that. Will pop into the LBS at the weekend and see what they suggest with this. Hopefully it's just a short term thing to build on the fitness levels and then I can go back to the 11-27 on the back. I guess the cassette won't be ideal for finding a good riding gear as there will be more space between each gear .

    I'm not building any fitness with walking up hills :D

    Are you running 9 or 10 speed Ultegra? MTB cassette is only an option if you're on 9 speed
    Alex
  • sherer
    sherer Posts: 2,460
    i'm on the Ultegra 10 speed. Will see what they say at my LBS anyway, prefer the option of just changing the cassette at the back.

    What can I do with the 10 speed ?
  • shaw8670
    shaw8670 Posts: 264
    Do some more training!
    Greetings from the wet and windy North west
  • sherer
    sherer Posts: 2,460
    just spoke to a mechanic in cycling surgery. They reckon I can fit a SRAM rear mech and a long cage and then it will be fine.

    will check the SRAM website later today

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