South Africa rape survey

2»

Comments

  • Smokin Joe
    Smokin Joe Posts: 2,706
    Interesting programme on the subject of race and rape coming up Monday night -

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/cr ... 11381.html
  • Aggieboy
    Aggieboy Posts: 3,996
    edited March 2011
    teagar wrote:
    Hence, anarchic areas (such as areas caught up in warfare), tend to have lots more.


    Nobody is disputing they have more, are they? The fact they have lots more doesn't mean all men in anarchic areas all become rapists though does it? That's my point, some of them clearly have the morality not to rape.

    Then you might have some ideas beyond you own, little tiny personal experience.

    Now that statement really is a schoolboy error which confirms by earlier post, you are an idiot.!! Oh,I forgot you are still at school aren't you. :lol: Making a statement like that about someone you don't know really is silly isn't it? In fact, as a coincidental example of my 'tiny little personal experience', I once lived in Bophuthatswana (you'll probably have to Goggle that won't you :roll: ) for 4 months. Yours??

    PS. Good luck getting a job when you've passed your history exams!
    "There's a shortage of perfect breasts in this world, t'would be a pity to damage yours."
  • teagar
    teagar Posts: 2,100
    Aggieboy wrote:
    teagar wrote:
    Hence, anarchic areas (such as areas caught up in warfare), tend to have lots more.


    Nobody is disputing they have more, are they? The fact they have lots more doesn't mean all men in anarchic areas all become rapists though does it? That's my point, some of them clearly have the morality not to rape.

    Then you might have some ideas beyond you own, little tiny personal experience.

    Now that statement really is a schoolboy error which confirms by earlier post, you are an idiot.!! Oh,I forgot you are still at school aren't you. :lol: Making a statement like that about someone you don't know really is silly isn't it? In fact, as a coincidental example of my 'tiny little personal experience', I once lived in Bophuthatswana (you'll probably have to Goggle that won't you :roll: ) for 4 years. Yours??

    PS. Good luck getting a job when you've passed your history exams!

    Just graduated, straight into a graduate job...

    :roll:

    Given that my my dissertaion was on Johston, and my special subject, European perception and encounters in Africa, I think I have some authority when discussing a European author on Africa, don't you?

    You're quite happy to call me an idiot, despite not knowing me either. Honestly.

    Edit: Having looked through your other posts, given your bully-like picking on Bhima, I should have expected a nasty little response like that one.
    Note: the above post is an opinion and not fact. It might be a lie.
  • hammerite
    hammerite Posts: 3,408
    teagar wrote:
    Aggieboy wrote:
    teagar wrote:
    He's spot on. There's a rapist lurking inside everyone. Just there is a powerful authority to prevent such occurances...

    We all know what happens in war, when that authority disappears.

    No. A powerful morality that all decent people have. Do you really need authority to tell right from wrong? You're an idiot.

    Sorry, I think you've all missed the point somewhat.

    By saying that it's all down to the individual and self restraint, you're implying that people in South Africa have a higher natural propensity to rape.... :?

    Clearly bollocks.

    When I talk about rape in war, I wasn't particularly refering to soldiers, but, I guess everyone enjoys being offended.


    There are plenty of academic articles on the subject of rape, and of those I've read for my second year compulsary early modern module, the number of rapes that occur were more or less directly linked to the level of authority there was in a given area.

    Hence, anarchic areas (such as areas caught up in warfare), tend to have lots more.

    Given South Africa's weak government and weak policing force, this all makes sense.

    My point was that everyone is equal. It's very easy to draw a conclusion from that article that it a south african problem, but it is not. It's a global problem, since it's human, not a geographical or national, phenomenon.

    Anyway, havn't you heard of a moral authority?

    The authority is ingrained, it is present for your entire experience as a human, it is the discourse. That's why you instinctively, like myself by the way (cheers for accusing me of being a rapist!), don't like it.

    Everyone's equal, so you need to look at reasons beyond nationality or race.

    Perhaps I should apologise for not trying to label south africans as rapists or that they have a higher natural propensity to rape than others. Oh wait, you know what, I won't!

    Why not educate yourself and read some Foucault before you call me an idiot. Then you might have some ideas beyond you own, little tiny personal experience.

    I bet you're a bundle of laughs on a night out, or the club run.
  • Aggieboy
    Aggieboy Posts: 3,996
    teagar wrote:


    Edit: Having looked through your other posts, given your bully-like picking on Bhima, I should have expected a nasty little response like that one.


    That will be posts that are not, in fact, bullying then will they?
    "There's a shortage of perfect breasts in this world, t'would be a pity to damage yours."
  • teagar
    teagar Posts: 2,100
    Aggieboy wrote:
    teagar wrote:


    Edit: Having looked through your other posts, given your bully-like picking on Bhima, I should have expected a nasty little response like that one.


    That will be posts that are not, in fact, bullying then will they?


    Wriggling out on semantics? Should try being a professional cyclist. :roll:
    Note: the above post is an opinion and not fact. It might be a lie.
  • OffTheBackAdam
    OffTheBackAdam Posts: 1,869
    Just read a snippet in Today's Telegraph, gang-rape is on the up in certain inner cities, fueled by gang mentality.
    Remember that you are an Englishman and thus have won first prize in the lottery of life.
  • spen666
    spen666 Posts: 17,709
    GavH wrote:
    redddraggon wrote:
    But what about the allegations about the British soldiers in Kenya?

    A fair comment but these allegations, levied against amongst others the uber-disciplined Gurkhas have since been proven to be unfounded. They were instigated by a British solicitor called Martyn Day who brought the allegations, promising those involved about £10,000,000 of British taxpayers (our!) money that he reckoned the MoD would pay out in compensation. Every one of the claims made were proven to be fake and the actual police documentation fake also. When this approach didn't work, they turned to injuries apparantly caused by unexploded ordnance. More live ordnance is fired in Wales, Otterburn and numerous other places in the UK, not to mention other training areas around the world. Funny how the claims in Kenya were somehow a tad excessive in their number in this particular respect. In short, it was all about defrauding the UK taxpayer. I cannot comment on how many Kenyan women have since been elected to the UK parliament as I haven't got that data to hand... :wink:


    Tell you what Gavin, this article in today's Times newspaper seems to show the only FAKE claims are the ones you are making

    The court case regarding the claims is only beginning today. So unless you are alleging the whole legal system is a sham and this case has already been decided before evidence is heard, then your claims cannot be true.

    It may be the allegations will be dismissed by the courts, but they have not yet been dismissed

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/africa/article6557668.ece
    Five elderly Kenyans will sue the British Government today for a lost decade of alleged torture, suppression and humiliation under Britain’s colonial rule of Kenya more than half a century ago.

    If successful, the case could cost Britain millions of pounds by paving the way for thousands of other surviving members and sympathisers of the Mau Mau uprising to file similar claims.

    A leading expert warned, though, that the veterans faced difficulties in holding Britain responsible for the alleged atrocities, which include rape and castration. Professor David Anderson said that he feared the case was being “driven by politics and money”. He said that the Government will argue that legal responsibility was passed to the Kenyan authorities after independence in 1963.

    Wambugu Nyingi, 84, is one of the three men and two women who left Kenya for the first time last Friday to travel to London to open their lawsuit at the High Court. For him and the others the action is about more than compensation — they also want an apology from the Government for the alleged human rights violations.

    “I lost a great deal during my time in detention,” said Mr Nyingi, who alleges he was hit and whipped during nine years of captivity in camps run by British officers. “I was completely destroyed when I came out and couldn’t get a job.”

    Jane Muthoni Mara was a teenager at the height of the Mau Mau rebellion in the 1950s. She said that nothing could fix her mental and physical scars, but that compensation and an apology would help. “At least there would be justice,” said Mrs Mara, who claims she was held at a screening camp, where she was sexually assaulted by an African Home Guard.

    The Mau Mau began as a grassroots movement among the majority Kikuyu tribe to recover farmland taken by British settlers. By 1952 it had evolved into a rebellion calling for an independent Kenya. According to official estimates 11,000 Kenyans and about 100 Europeans died during the struggle, but human rights activists believe that the casualties on the Kenyan side were much higher. George Morara, of the Kenyan Human Rights Commission, says he has evidence that proves Britain pursued a policy of torture to suppress the uprising. “Some of these things were sanctioned at the highest levels of the British Government. There is no way these were random acts,” he told The Times.

    Mr Anderson, a professor of African politics at the University of Oxford, said he believed the legal action would fail because it targeted the state, rather than individuals who might have carried out the abuse. “There can be no doubt that torture was used by British Forces . . . but the question remains ‘who is responsible?’,” he said.

    Leigh Day & Co, the London-based law firm representing the Mau Mau veterans, denied that the case was driven by money. Dan Leader, a lawyer, said: “It’s about having their story told and having a voice.”

    The other veterans suing the Government are Susan Ciongombe, who alleges that she was sexually assaulted, and Paul Nzili and Ndiku Mutwiwa, who allege they were castrated while in detention
    Want to know the Spen666 behind the posts?
    Then read MY BLOG @ http://www.pebennett.com

    Twittering @spen_666
  • teagar
    teagar Posts: 2,100
    From what I gleaned off my ex-tutors, the historical consensus was that British response to the Mau Mau uprising was a human atrocity. Havn't looked into it myself though.

    It's not South Africa though...

    Check out Zulu if you want a comic example of British atrocities there. Colonialism is a bit like me walking into your house, sitting down in your living room and watching the programmes I want to on TV. If you don't agree with what I'm watching, I punch you in the face. Not cool.

    There seems to be a notion that all the problems, and they are many and serious, in Africa, are caused by African themselves, as part of the African's nature, which surely can't be right? (and indeed, is racist!). The conclusions some people have made here about some people having the moral conviction not to do terrible things sounds like they are implicitly suggesting that those in south africa must have less moral conviction, or less morals more generally, since why else would such terrible things happen so often and frequently. Again, that surely can't be right?
    Note: the above post is an opinion and not fact. It might be a lie.
  • nolf
    nolf Posts: 1,287
    hammerite wrote:
    teagar wrote:
    Aggieboy wrote:
    teagar wrote:

    I bet you're a bundle of laughs on a night out, or the club run.

    Yes you're right, I think all educated people are boring and have no sense of fun.
    God forbid someone to bring FACTS into a discussion. Just ruins it completely.

    And we all know how rubbish students are at partys...
    "I hold it true, what'er befall;
    I feel it, when I sorrow most;
    'Tis better to have loved and lost;
    Than never to have loved at all."

    Alfred Tennyson
  • nolf
    nolf Posts: 1,287
    teagar wrote:
    From what I gleaned off my ex-tutors, the historical consensus was that British response to the Mau Mau uprising was a human atrocity. Havn't looked into it myself though.

    It's not South Africa though...

    Check out Zulu if you want a comic example of British atrocities there. Colonialism is a bit like me walking into your house, sitting down in your living room and watching the programmes I want to on TV. If you don't agree with what I'm watching, I punch you in the face. Not cool.

    Yes Zulu, an accurate historical source. Did you know it's real archive footage?

    Also I don't think South Africa has been a British colony in a while and therefore not really our responsibility.
    "I hold it true, what'er befall;
    I feel it, when I sorrow most;
    'Tis better to have loved and lost;
    Than never to have loved at all."

    Alfred Tennyson
  • teagar
    teagar Posts: 2,100
    nolf wrote:
    *snip*

    Also I don't think South Africa has been a British colony in a while and therefore not really our responsibility.

    That's where we'll have to disagree...
    Note: the above post is an opinion and not fact. It might be a lie.
  • nolf
    nolf Posts: 1,287
    teagar wrote:
    nolf wrote:
    *snip*

    Also I don't think South Africa has been a British colony in a while and therefore not really our responsibility.

    That's where we'll have to disagree...


    Maybe we should police the world?

    I wasn't aware that the South African government was requesting aid...
    "I hold it true, what'er befall;
    I feel it, when I sorrow most;
    'Tis better to have loved and lost;
    Than never to have loved at all."

    Alfred Tennyson
  • teagar
    teagar Posts: 2,100
    nolf wrote:
    teagar wrote:
    nolf wrote:
    *snip*

    Also I don't think South Africa has been a British colony in a while and therefore not really our responsibility.

    That's where we'll have to disagree...


    Maybe we should police the world?

    I wasn't aware that the South African government was requesting aid...

    I don't think aid is the solution..

    It's more i think the colonial legacy is more than a few buildings, and national geographical boundries. It's shaped the way Africa behaves, and has allowed for its continued exploitation, so it's the responsibility of those who still have the power to exploit, i.e. the imperial nations, to stop it.

    They're not responsible for what the South Africans do, but the imperial powers are responsible for what they do in and with South Africa, (and indeed, other ex-colonies).

    I think the attitude and the conceptualisation of what Africa actually is needs to change. But I'm not sure that is possible in reality...*sigh*
    Note: the above post is an opinion and not fact. It might be a lie.

Categories