Downhills - Do they scare you?

Naveed

Had a great ride today around Dorking and Boxhill. My climbing's improved a touch after I paced myself better.

Only thing bugging me now is a fear I can't shake when it comes to tight techinical downhills. I know it sounds sad; but I find really steep downhills bloody scary, especially when they're full of roots and involve tight turns as well as low overhanging branches (my head still hurts)

When approaching a steep section I always pull the trigger on the brakes and feel like I'm going to go over the bars. Most people say leave off the brakes but then you're letting gravity take over and I need some control especially when I'm a tad scared.

Anyone got any good tips to tackling steepish downhills - the moderate DH is fine, just the really steep stuff where I feel like I'm losing control because I'm hurtling down too fast.

GHill

Make sure your weight is far back - butt behind the saddle time.

Other than that, not sure I'm qualified to give much advice

Chaz.Harding

Naveed, I'm no expert, but I can ride steep sections. Drop your seatpost right down (as far as it will go, pretty much). Like GHill said, extend your arms almost fully, and your legs, and get your weight as far back, and as LOW as possible, without your @rse rubbing on the tyre!!

Just remember you still need to bend your arms to steer, so don't lock your arms out. Don't lock you knees out too - if you allow your bike to 'float' underneath you, you'll be much much more in controll.

As for brakes, this is where you primarily use the back brake. You can use the front, but do so with caution!! As you say, too much, and it can pitch you over the bars with ease on the steep sections.

If I don't make any sense, let me know and I'll try to clarify.

Banned!

if you feel like your losing control braking isnt going to help. it will just make things worse.

the wheel, one of mans greatest achievments, will roll down a hill whether you are on it or not. let it do what it was designed for and try not to poo your pants too much.

Chaz.Harding

Ahh, yeah, J_C makes a point I forgot.

If you are just rolling, then a wheel can devote 100% of it's grip to keeping you rolling. If you steer, it has to divide the grip between steering and rolling. And may cause you to skid out. So if you brake (the biggest mistake!!!), it has to divide it's grip between rolling and braking. If you skid out on a steep section, unless you are a skilled rider, you will most likely fall off...

So less brakes, more balls!!!

8)

And yes, it is easier said than done!

Graydawg

Stay loose - if you tense up you're going over the bars!! or into a tree 8)

the faster you go (within reason of course!) the more stable you become as physics will dictate, so try not to brake too much!!

Relax and enjoy - especially the adrenaline at the bottom of the run!!

stevet1992

burn yourself a new arse hole from your rear wheel and use the back brake to avoid feeling like your lurching over the front although dont lock it as im guessing this wont do much for your handling

geordiefreerider

The front brake is only gonna send you over the bars if you use too much its all about getting a feel for your brakes and how much you can use them before they lock up but yeah a lot of the time you will be doing more harm than good by trying to brake - sometimes the only way is to grow some !!

Naveed

Thanks for the advice everyone - I think one major mistake I've been making is standing up on the peddles and being too vertical, I have a bad habit where I stand too upright (fully extending my knees - duh) I'm not getting far back enough as it doesn't always feel like a natural movement to crouch and bend the knees.

I'm speaking from experience really 'cos on Saturday I attacked a steep section and when it really got steeper I kind of bottled it - seem to have this phobia that the terrain is too steep for the mtb (looks near vertical sometimes) always worried that I'm going to let gravity do the work and send me flying over the top.

Most people have said braking is the most common mistake but we don't know what's going to meet us at the bottom of the DH - In my case it was a flight of stairs which absolutley left me bricking it - Surely going down a steep section needs some braking?

Otherwise you'd just hurtle down and when the bike's going too fast, that's when we lose control.

I do need to grow some so thanks Geordiefreerider - also cheers bighazard -great advice

Banned!

watch the footage of the fort bill DH from the other weekend. when the riders hit the steep drop near the end they just let the bike go and drop with it. that what you need to do. fight the bike and you will lose. badly.

stairs are just a knobbly hill as far as your bike is concerned. your wheels are bigger than the gap between the steps so you will jst roll over them

Naveed

Matti Leikonen had other ideas with that drop JC

Naveed

I know a sound like a big wuss but stairs scare the crap out of me as well - the only one's I like tackling are those with even spaces, however going over the bars phobia followed by a concrete kiss does play on my mind.

Time to grow some and learn to fall, get back up ... and fall again, and learn.

77ric

contrary to belief you don't have to burn yourself a new arsehole, when getting your weight back. It's really not that necessary to get that far back, and best not to.

shift your weight back behind but above the saddle (drop your saddle by an amount your comfortable with some peeps say 3" other 5") don't get to far back or low as you will lift all your weight of the front wheel which would not be good for traction and therefore very bad for steering.

the key to descending whether it's a steady shallow downhill or really fecking steep is...


... Commitment

stay loose and go for it, you can feather the rear brake on the straight bits to regulate your speed. Best to scrub your speed before the twisty bits. don't do anything too dramatic with your steering or braking.

Have faith in your bike it will roll through any obstacle short of trees and walls etc.

ultimately have faith in YOUR bike it's a bloody good bike that trance.

Chaz.Harding

I find what works best for me is braking in sections. IE, where it levels out a bit, brake. When it gets super steep, let it roll, or if I have to, drag the REAR brake lightly, just to keep me from hurtling down.

It's just about getting a feel or the terrain. Best way to do it, is keep on doing it!!

nicklouse

Naveed wrote:

Time to grow some and learn to fall, get back up ... and fall again, and learn.

just what i was about to say.

P-Jay

I could';t argue with anything above, if you're heavier rider like me you can end up piling on loads of speed, but I'd try to avoid dragging brakes to manage speed. I have hardly EVER crashed where I wasn't on the brakes at the time, they'll have you off more than anything else. My top tips:

Look ahead, not at what your front wheel is doing.

Plan a route, but try not to get freaked if you're pushed another way.

Brake like you're racing, IE choose your braking point before the bend/obsacale Then stay off the brakes until you get there, then hard on the brakes down to the speed you want and then off then around.

And at no point should any part of your body be rigid, if it's you arms or legs you'll never absorb anything. And if it's anything else you're not concentraiting on the job in hand :twisted:

dave_hill

Lay off the front brake as much as possible - just feather it to control your descent.

Use the back brake to scrub off the speed. If the wheel locks, momentarily let the brake off to get it rolling again. A rolling wheel is a gripping and steering wheel.

Look ahead at where you want to be going, don't fixate on a point 2 feet in front of the front wheel.

Until you get the feel for it, slow and steady is the approach. That way if you need to bail it's not going to hurt. Much.

bear baun

quicker you go........sooner your off it!!

Stu 74

Some of this may have already been mentioned above.........

Drop your saddle.
Relax and stay loose with your weight towards the back of the bike.
Point your heels towards the ground and your toes upwards - this will help you get your weight back.
Lift your brake levers up - again this will help you keep your weight back. You don't need your brakes when going up hill so it makes sense to set the levers up to a position where they feel comfortable when the bike is pointing downwards.
It's OK to brake but just do it before your reach the obstacles, not as you are riding through them otherwise you will lose momentum.
If your tyres are pinging off rocks and routes, try letting some air out of them.

Stu

dave_hill

Stu 74 wrote:

Lift your brake levers up - again this will help you keep your weight back. You don't need your brakes when going up hill so it makes sense to set the levers up to a position where they feel comfortable when the bike is pointing downwards.

I wouldn't agree with that. Even when you're hanging off the back your arms and hands are pointing forwards and down. Your brake levers don't need to be at an extreme angle, but they're certainly more comfortable if they're angled downwards slightly. Check out the magazine photos to see where the pros have their levers.

You might not need your brakes going uphill but you do need them on the "along" bits so bear that in mind too...

Raymondavalon

Naveed I know you have an adjustable seatpost (as do I) - to be honest this helped a lot with my confidence downhill.. getting that seat down and your weight over the back in seconds is a godsend

Other things that help with your "confidence" is padding up correctly, stuff like knee/elbow pads and some form body armour certainly takes the edge off.. often the mere thought of pain can erode one's confidence and have you reaching for the brakes

Once you realise you probably will not be hurt "if" you bail, then the speed and flow will improve, guaranteed
As lame as this may sound, the fact is do all you can to build confidence. From experience I assure you there will be a day when you have a big off and that padding will pay dividends and you will get back up and saddle up without the fall chipping too much confidence away.

Naveed

Cheers for that Raymond - update on my KS I900 cobra seatpost - the threads on the upper clamp have worn through and Leisure Lakes are sending me a replacement.

77ric

seconded on the padding, my 661 kyle strait knee pads made a massive difference to my confidence.

mtbikerboy

I agree with most of the stuff said above. Especially- look ahead and where you want to go. Braking at the right time, weight back etc

But also, watching someone else do the section before you ride it helps give you an idea of what line to take, what speeds and generally what to expect. I also find riding closely behind a better rider extremely helpful; i have often surprised myself by how much better i ride when following a better rider- you somehow just get into the flow.

Also about the saddle, my personal preference is not to have it completely low but somewhere around the level of my thighs- not sure why.

77ric

mtbikerboy wrote:

Also about the saddle, my personal preference is not to have it completely low but somewhere around the level of my thighs- not sure why.

yeah i drop the saddle by about 3 and a half inches, low enough to get it out of the way but still high enough to clamp the saddle between my thighs when i need extra control to manipulate the bike.

joshtp

bigchazrocks wrote:

Ahh, yeah, J_C makes a point I forgot.

If you are just rolling, then a wheel can devote 100% of it's grip to keeping you rolling. If you steer, it has to divide the grip between steering and rolling. And may cause you to skid out. So if you brake (the biggest mistake!!!), it has to divide it's grip between rolling and braking. If you skid out on a steep section, unless you are a skilled rider, you will most likely fall off...

So less brakes, more balls!!!

8)

And yes, it is easier said than done!

+1
it can be scarry on tech dh but just relax and go with the flow!

Surf-Matt

If there's mud and roots around, I'm flipping hopeless. A couple of bad crashes seemed to have spooked me for life. Oh well, luckily I can climb okay!

likewoah

It's pretty amazing what a decent MTB can roll down. Stay loose 8)