There's no point us offering test rides because...

neonwarhead

"Because we use the bike fit system the bike will be a scientific perfect fit for you, and the human body is incapable of distinguishing between different carbon bikes as they're all so good."

Verbatim, as I was advised in a local road specialist shop this afternoon.

So I guess I'll just pick one I like the colour of then... :roll:

Kiwi Kranker

Please oh please name and shame!!

juankerr

Fantastic. Even better than my LBS who told me one Trek frame was better than the other because it was made of "special molecules".

giant_man

neonwarhead wrote:

"Because we use the bike fit system the bike will be a scientific perfect fit for you, and the human body is incapable of distinguishing between different carbon bikes as they're all so good."

Verbatim, as I was advised in a local road specialist shop this afternoon.

So I guess I'll just pick one I like the colour of then... :roll:

Yeah right

neonwarhead

Kiwi Kranker wrote:

Please oh please name and shame!!

Hmm, well they're in Berkshire and stock Wilier, Bianchi, Pinarello, Colnago, De Rosa and Giant to name a few. All a bit disappointing really, as I'd gone there hoping for a decent overview of what may be suitable for me given that they carry a decent range of bikes.

Jez mon

AW cycles!!???

Anonymous

How do they justify stocking expensive carbon frames over cheap unbranded ones then??

neonwarhead

Jez mon wrote:

AW cycles!!???

That is certainly a shop that fulfills the criteria, I however couldn't possibly comment!!

Jez mon

Well that certainly doesn't sound like anyone I know that works there!

dennisn

neonwarhead wrote:

"Because we use the bike fit system the bike will be a scientific perfect fit for you, and the human body is incapable of distinguishing between different carbon bikes as they're all so good."

Verbatim, as I was advised in a local road specialist shop this afternoon.

So I guess I'll just pick one I like the colour of then... :roll:

Well, I would have to say that the "perfect fit" is a load of crap but would agree that "the
human body is incapable of.........". Saying that you can tell the difference between a Colnago and a DeRosa simply by riding them is like saying you can tell the difference between American beers in a blindfolded taste test. If you think that you're going to get
some great benefit by buying top shelf carbon brand "A" over brand "B" I think you've fallen for the hype in advertising. I'd go for the blue one myself. Although you may prefer red.

Tom Butcher

I think you'll be lucky to find a shop that lets you test ride a range of top end bikes. If you went in and looked like you were dead set on buying one and just wanted a spin on it first they'd probably do it to clinch the deal.

A Load Of Bull

I would trust Trikki a million times over to fit me with the right bike...

... though I wouldn't necessarily be quite so sure about what he says about delivery times...

Hypothetically speaking, of course.

neonwarhead

Who's this Trikki then - not the 90s Bristol based rapper presumably..?

Infamous

neonwarhead wrote:

"Because we use the bike fit system the bike will be a scientific perfect fit for you, and the human body is incapable of distinguishing between different carbon bikes as they're all so good."

He's right.

Bike fit matters much more than the weave of the carbon.

Fireblade96

Strangely enough, I heard exactly the same phrase from a local bike shop employee.

Monty Dog

I'm with the shop - the vast majority of buyers generally don't have enough experience of bikes to be able to make an informed judgement from a ride around the block. The shop builds-up a new bike for a test ride, for the guy to take it around the block and say "nah, not for me" and he sods off to buy it online - the shop now has to stand a zero margin on the bike sale as it's now used. If you have a beef, it should be with the manufacturers / distributors to offer special deals on demo bikes. Put yourself in the shop-owners shoes - he's between a rock and a hard place.

giant_man

Thats all fine and I do agree with you Monty Dog, but what about the real enthusiast, the genuine buyer, which is some of us on here of course, what about us?

How are we going to judge something that we are genuinely interested in without trying it?
If you went to buy a car a test drive is mandatory. Why isn't it the same with top end cycles? Don't they want to sell the frames/bikes? It does beg the question.

softlad

giant mancp wrote:

If you went to buy a car a test drive is mandatory. Why isn't it the same with top end cycles? Don't they want to sell the frames/bikes? It does beg the question.

It's a question of cost. The same 'demo' car could be driven by almost anyone, irrespective of their size. The same cannot be said of 'demo' bicycles. The shop would need to keep a huge demo fleet just to cater for midgets, beanpoles and everyone in between.....

Difficult to argue with the shop really.....

giant_man

yeah I do see your point.

DomPro

I have noticed there is an incredible amount of bullshit when it comes to 'sales talk' for bicycles.

HonestAl

When I started reading this thread I thought "That's funny, that's similar to a line that I was spun by AW Cycles about 6 months ago". Then as I read on, it became apparent that it was indeed AW. I felt a right bloody fool when the guy explained to me that I wouldn't be able to tell the difference and their was no point my having a test ride.

So I went to another LBS and asked to ride a couple of specific bikes. They didn't feel the need to explain I'd not spot any difference. Their not having what I wanted in stock didn't seem to get in their way. A phone call and they'd secured a demo machine for me to try. Then a few days later they took a big stack of cash from me and I took home a lovely new TCR Advanced. I'd originally fully intended to buy a bike from AW.

I think AW have missed a trick here, it's not whether anyone can truly tell the difference between the frames, it's whether you believe you can feel the difference between the bikes, and what you end up feeling best about. If my real LBS, a shop about 1/3 the size of AW, can get a demo machine I'm sure AW can too so I'm not sure I buy the "demo fleet" argument.

At the end of the day us punters will go and spend our money where we feel is giving us the right deal. Right doesn't have to mean cheapest. Price comes into it for sure, but, for me at least, not feeling patronised is important too. You pays your money and takes your choice.

I won't be spending a lot of money with AWCycles in future but I'm sure there are lots of others who won't feel as put out as me.

seagulljez

makes me giggle...
why shouldn't you be able to test ride a bike you are going to spend some cash on.
how many people have bought a car without test driving it, and lets be fair, the amount spent on a new steed can be a major amount.
from my experience of plenty of southern bike shops, the test bikes around are few and far between, and some of the bullshite they come out to try and sell what they stock is quite amazing..!
and by the way, I sell things, and you really can't bullshite a bullshiter

alfablue

Yes, this "can't tell the difference" bit - makes me wonder why bike mags test bikes, surely the only difference is size, fit and components! #

Sounds to me that AW have made up (a rather patronising) justification for not wanting to let you try bikes out.

In contrast, my LBS encourages you to go out on the bikes (these are off the shelf, not demo ones), and even say that you can bring it back within a few days of purchase if you aren't happy and they will swap it! This sort of approach gets valuable customer loyalty.

(John's Bikes, Bath).

giant_man

I totally disagree about not being able to tell the difference between carbon frames. They are all different. I tested a De Rosa Idol last year straight after a Cervelo R3 and you couldn't get two different rides if you tried. A test on a Giant TCR Advanced at the weekend again gives a different ride.

Yes there a lot of carbon frames available, but they are all different. They are going to be. They are going to differ thanks to the alternative ways of construction. The type of carbon weave used, the tube thickness utilised, varying gluing methods and the way it is put together, that's apart from the monocoque vs lugs argument.

cee

The only thing I can think of that would make a difference to how a bike feels is the geometry.

Now I don't know a lot about road bikes...so bear with me here....

Mountain bikes can have very different geometry, so one top end carbon XC bike could potentially feel very different to another....depending on things like top tube length, fork toe angle, chainstay length etc.

But again, even riding them round the carpark might not necessarily give the rider the full picture of difference, so still not sure that a quick spin helps....demo days at trail centres are excellent for this...it means you can have a real go of different bikes from a variety of manufacturers, all in the right size...

Do road bikes share a more common geometry, or are they all very different....

neonwarhead

giant mancp wrote:

Yes there a lot of carbon frames available, but they are all different. They are going to be. They are going to differ thanks to the alternative ways of construction. The type of carbon weave used, the tube thickness utilised, varying gluing methods and the way it is put together, that's apart from the monocoque vs lugs argument.

That's exactly my thoughts. As for the 'scientific fit' blah - how does that work with different frame geometries? Would it be aiming to give you exactly the same riding position on a specialized s-works Tarmac as on a Roubaix?

My conversation in the LBS started off with "My current bike has me too low at the front for comfort on longer rides, I've tried a Tarmac and liked it, and wondered what you've got that would be similar?" The answer apparently was a Mortirolo, and only a Mortirolo, despite a full range of Bianchis all around us. My overriding impression was of someone who simply couldn't be arsed to help; possibly £1500-£2000 just wasn't enough to pique his interest?

Still, no harm done, tomorrow I'll find out all about the Mortirolo, and the Izoard, at the very helpfull Red Planet. Oh, and then Bianchis on the 18th!

http://www.redplanetmountainbikes.co.uk/wilier.htm

Any guesses as to where my money will be going?

giant_man

Yes it doesn't help with different geometries on every bike out there, and the compact vs trad geometry also.

Bit of a minefield if you don't know what you're looking for ride wise. For me it's ALL about the FIT and the RIDE. Period.

The colour schemes come after this imo, so a rider going for a bike cos it looks pretty and not even having a test ride is a foolhardy conquest imo. And even more when ordering 'blind' online. Good grief!

aberdeen_lune

It's a bit of a minefield. On the one hand you can insist on test riding a bike to see if its the right fit. Fine a quick spin around the car park or nearby roads. If the reach isnt quite right are you going to ask them to fit a longer/shorter stem? To get an idea of the ride quality you would then need a long test ride or a weekend on it. What do you do then take it back if its not quite right and ask to try another one? It would be great if I had a local bike shop that stocked a wide range of bikes and offered that kind of service. The bike shops in Aberdeen dont even stock a reasonable range of tyres never mind bikes so I can only dream about that kind of service.

bobtbuilder

Go the LBS Monkey!

That's a good one - ROFLMAO!!! :roll:

dennisn

giant mancp wrote:

Yes it doesn't help with different geometries on every bike out there, and the compact vs trad geometry also.

Bit of a minefield if you don't know what you're looking for ride wise. For me it's ALL about the FIT and the RIDE. Period.

The colour schemes come after this imo, so a rider going for a bike cos it looks pretty and not even having a test ride is a foolhardy conquest imo. And even more when ordering 'blind' online. Good grief!

I must be one of those people who are easy to fit. I buy shoes, clothing, bike stuff, all kinds of things online, with very few problems. Maybe I'm not sensitive to the "rides"
of different bikes. As for trying out bikes at shops. I don't see too many shops having that kind of capability or inventory. So I buy a frame, build it up, and ride it. It all seems to work for me, but maybe I'm just lucky. Guess MY first consideration would be "do you have it in blue?". Although I did see a really, really, red and chrome steel Cinnelli a while back that
could become my favorite "new" color.

ugo.santalucia

Obviously the man tried to justify the fact that they don't want to own a demo bike for each model, which is sensible, of course.

He's not completely wrong, we think we notice a difference, but suggestion plays a big role... do you think, once removed the logos, one would really be able to tell the difference between a top of the range Giant and an unbranded frame, probably half the price or less? The answer is clearly no... geometries are remarkably similar, materials are often the same, production is probably done in the same plant, how can anyone claim to be able to notice the difference...
I appreciate there might be a difference between a steel frame and a carbon one, but even so, I own an Alu-carbon frame and two steel ones... I am incapable of noticing any difference in the frame behaviour, only difference is steering, probably due to a different headset system as it is threaded for the steel bikes and integrated for the other...
Call me numb, but that's the truth