Upgrade possibilities - Allez Triple

mikee_j

Firstly, hello all (first post)

secondly i have spent a few hours searching the forum posts for similar threads with some degree of luck, however, feel it deserves a fresh thread.

Right, this is now going to be my third season of using my allez triple and this is the season i plan to take things more seriously and aim to get out for a 50+ mile ride once a week with a few 3 lap challenges of richmond park thrown in for good measure after work. i also aim to do a couple of sportives and chairty cycles (london to brighton etc) with the aim of maybe joining a club for the surrey hill rides later in the year.

I dream of buying a new bike of £1000+ but in reality i'm not going to be able to afford this within the next few years and i certainly not even going to entertain the thought of buying on credit in these uncertain times! So the option open to me is upgrading the bike gradually with improvement here and there.

So my question really is what upgrades and improvments would you recommend making to the allez triple which will directly improve the performance of the bike? Would it be worth, say, upgrading to a 105 groupset? Upgrading the wheels to something at a £150 range? and how compatible will these upgrades be if i decide to buy a new frame in the future? will it be as simple as switching the componants from the allez frame to a new frame.

I would also like to hear your stories of how you started to upgrade your bikes especially those with allez's.

By the way, the only upgrade i've made so far is racing pedals and shoes and a toupe saddle. oh, and the new white handlebar tape!

all advice and recommendations appreciated.

Mike

robmanic1

Hi Mikee, welcome to the forum.

Wheels and tyres are alleged to be the best areas to upgrade, the beauty being that, should you wish to change bikes in the future, you can transfer them.
I've just bought a set of Racing 3's and had my first outing at the weekend, incredible difference, feels like a different bike.

Sounds like, with the mileage your planning on doing, you best upgrade will be in your fitness.

andy_wrx

Wheels and tyres, like he said.

Not worth a new groupset.



I have a 2004 Allez triple and have recently put back my original wheels and am amazed how horrible they feel !

I replaced them a couple of years ago for two reasons, one as upgrade but second because they were popping spokes like silly things - I think they have a certain lifetime and mine had got to it.

I replaced mine with Shimano R550's, which you'll not get any more, but they were less than £100 and I noticed a considerable improvement.
The stock tyres were great in the dry but pretty shocking in the wet, so again I noticed an improvement on swapping to Michelin ProRace.

I now have another bike as 'best', but still use the Allez as 'winter bike' and for commuting a couple of times a week, with mudguards and a rack.

The new wheels were feeling gritty in the hubs, so I've just dismantled them, regreased and rebuilt, but I didn't have the right size cone spanner to tighten them fully, so I put back the original wheels temporarily
- gawd they're awful, so slow to spin up to speed, dead and lifeless, damn hard work uphill.
I think the change back to these was more noticeable than the change the other way when I got the newer wheels !

I reckon spending £150 on wheels and tyres is worth it, you will notice a significant improvement.


But not a groupset.

I've also replaced the Sora shifters with some 2nd-hand Ultegra 9sp ones which a friend gave me, plus 105 9sp F&R mechs, kept the original chainset.

Other people complain that it's impossible to change gear using Sora on the drops, but I never had any problems, using the relatively shallow drops on the Allez I could reach up with my thumb no problem.
But I did find the shifter hoods very uncomfortable, plus it was a faff sometimes having the shifters in a different position (I'd forget which bike I was on and try to press the lever that wasn't there...) so when offered these 2nd-hand shifters for free I took them, and the rear mech, cassette and chain were wearing out anyway...

But as an upgrade, if I'd had to spend the full price of £100+ for new shifters, plus new cassette, mechs, chain, etc and it came to £200+, no that wouldn't have been worth it.

Sora works fine if you keep it adjusted and cleaned, what I have works a bit better, but not £200+ better


Since you already have clipless pedals, I'd simply improve the wheels and stick with what you've got.

Mettan

Yep, another vote for wheels and tyres, Mike:

Fulcrum Racing 5 Evo's
Shimano WH 5600's

either would make a good upgrade.

paired with either:

Pro Race 3's
GP 4000s
Open Corsa Evo CX's
Ultremo's

Perfect for the odd summer Sportive, Richmond park rides etc.

mikee_j

Thank you for the replies. Reading a lot of the posts in this forum the recomendation seems to be to upgrade the wheels and tyres and everyone who does really do notice a difference. I think i will be doing this. I've been looking at the Fulcrum 5 evo as an option and the Conti GP4000 tyres. I need some new tyres anyway as the mondo standard ones you get as standard are pretty worn now.

What is the difference between the GP4000 and the GP4000s?

In terms of wheels, is there really going to be much difference between the brands priced at about £150? I would imagine that anything at that price range is better than the standard wheels fitted on the allez, so perhaps its more about the ones that suit your bike better and are at a good price.

keep the advice coming...

alfablue

The Planet-X model B's are in that price bracket but are the weight f wheels costing twice as much - I am very pleased with mine.

kilo

As per the other replies get decent wheels and tyres and if you can do 50 miles in one hit don't bother waiting to join a club later in the year, get down to Kingston Wheelers on a Sunday and go on the easy pace club runs to start off, you'll find it a great way of increasing your fitness for your summer goals.

kilo

As per the other replies get decent wheels and tyres and if you can do 50 miles in one hit don't bother waiting to join a club later in the year, get down to Kingston Wheelers on a Sunday and go on the easy pace club runs to start off, you'll find it a great way of increasing your fitness for your summer goals.

Bhima

I just got some Mavic Cosmic Elite wheels which were heavier than my previous wheels but the difference in aerodynamics is incredible! I can actually go faster on heavier wheels! :shock:

So, weight saving is really something you should consider if there's a massive difference to be made - like on the frame. Paying £100s for tiny gram losses is silly, unless you can't do anything else and are at a really high level. In my opinion, aerodynamics will improve your performance more than weight savings. A time-trial aero helmet is supposed to be the next best thing after wheels and aerobars.

Bhima

If you want to see how much difference an aero wheel will make, you could always try this and see how it feels:

http://www.instructables.com/id/Aerodyn ... your-Bike/

It's a cheap way to get more aero! I tried it last year but didn't do a very good job of it and they fell apart after 20 minutes... :oops:

Lagavulin

Tyres and wheels would be my first choice.

The Spesh Mondo tyres that came with my Allez weren't good and the wheels (Alex AT400s rims on Spesh hubs laced with pasta) went constantly out of true.
If I'd of been a big lad then fair enough but I've rarely and barely nudged 11st in my 26 years.

Wheel-wise, well I initially went a bit silly and rather spoiled myself buying a set of DT Swiss RR1850's - which were great and now run on my best bike - but the Aksiums and Racing 7s I now run on the Allez are still way better wheels than those that came supplied.

I was advised that fairly significant weight savings could be gained from upgrading the Tiagra bottom bracket and chainset though I've done neither to date.

verloren

Aside from the obvious wheels/tyres, set up a search on eBay for ultegra and see what goes by. Every so often there's a genuine bargain (as opposed to just a very good price), and I suggest that you upgrade that component

dazzawazza

I upgraded my Allez triple (see commuter1) with new wheels (£200), some second hand Tiagra shifters (£20) and Ultegra 9 speed Octalink components that were on sale at Chainreactioncyles. Total cost was about £370, but very nice improvements to the bike.
I have yet to Ebay the Sora components.

mikee_j

Thanks again for the useful replies.

Seeing as i'm in for the 'long haul' with this bike i think i'll start by upgrading items as and when. Judging by everyones responses and talking to some friends who know a lot more about this than me, it seems that changing the tyres and wheels is a first and must.

I'm pretty set on the Michelin Pro 3 race tyres (not sure which colour yet!) as i've heard only good reviews and I can find them online for just shy of £50 for the pair. a worthwhile investment i think.

Now with regards to the wheels, this for me is a complete minefield! so many options and soo many prices. I've narrowed it down to not wanting to spend more than £150-£175 and going purely on reviews and recommendations i've found online i'm looking at the Fulcrum racing 5 evos, Fulcrum racing 7 and the Mavic Aksium. As i'm not in a position to be able to test ride any of these i think i'm just going to go for one of them and get on with it! Again, i've heard good things about each wheel so i'm not really leaning towards any yet. If anyone can convince me of why either one or an alternative please let me know.

For now that'll be all upgrading untill i find a bit more cash when i might start looking at some of the other things people have mentioned in this thread. I need to also learn and do a bit more reaserch into what part can be upgraded to what so i actually know what i'm looking for! For example, i would assume that a shim 105 triple chainset would be able replace my current sora triple set? but anything else, i'm just confused.

Again... keep all the excellent advice coming

alfablue

Mavic Aksium F 870g, R 985g, total 1855g - cost £145

Fulcrum 7 F 832g, R 1026g total 1858g - cost £135

Fulcrum Racing 5 Evo F 776g, R 980g, total 1756g - cost £175

Planet-X model B F 705g, R 948g, total 1653g - cost £154

I would go Planet-X, they seem really fast on my bike, accelerate very fast, climbs like a dream, stiff as you like but comfy, bladed spokes and aero rims, and the hubs are the smoothest running I have ever had. Just spin the wheel with the bike on the stand and they run on for an improbable time. With these wheels and a good choice of tyres I saved 600g on the wheel weight over my other bike equipped with hand built Open Pro's/Ultegra hubs. I was hesitant about durability after using handbuilts but they have been perfect in use.

Downside, no logo's or branding at all (not a problem to me).

dazzawazza

Just viewed your photos; wow the different size frame gives the bike a completely different look. It looks like you have the 2007 model like mine with 8 speed Sora.
I advise keeping an eye out for some second hand shifters (9 or 10 speed). Then when your current chainset and other components wear out you can upgrade without spending £150 on new shifters.
I was able to change on the drops on my sora shifters, but have found the Tiagra shifters much better for feel, changing and braking.
I made the stupid mistake of dismantling the left hand Tiagra shifter to clean it. It took me about 3 hours to get the spring back, with my wife helping (near divorce) and two sets of needle nose pliers (apparently there's a special tool). I should have just drenched it with GT85.
It looks like you could loose some spacers to get a more aero position. I have (since photo) and it has made a difference in speed without becoming uncomfortable. Don’t cut the steerer tube, just put a fancy carbon spacer on top (£3-£4).

Bhima

mikee_j wrote:

If anyone can convince me of why either one or an alternative please let me know.

In terms of wheels, it depends on what you want to do - light weight will only really help you on the hills and aerodynamic ones will help you everywhere else! Getting a wheel with both qualities will be expensive. So prioritise where you will like to see performance gains and go with that wheel.

Again, i'd recommend the Mavic Cosmic Elite. They don't make them anymore but you can pick up a pair on ebay for £80-£150. Originally, they were worth £350, I think.

andy_wrx

The Fulcrums (and Campag wheels generally) are a bit difficult to fit tyres onto.

Use the Search option and you'll find a couple of threads saying how hard it is to fit Continental tyres onto them.

I have the a pair of the original (pre-EVO) R5's as training wheels on my 'best' bike and fitting Conti GP4Season to them was just awful - and considering the number of p*nct*res I had with them, that wasn't good.

I find Michelin Pro Race are easier, but still difficult - not quite what you want out in the rain 50 miles from home, so well worth buying some decent tyre levers rather than the cheepo ones you get in a patch kit.

Also via the Search option and you'll find a couple of threads of people saying that the alu freehubs on Planet-X model B's chew-up easily if you're running 10sp : you're not, you're running 8sp so it'll be OK for you.
Other than that, they do seem a good buy - certainly very light for the money and, other than the 10sp-with-freehub issue, everyone seems happy with them.

Mavic Cosmic Elite are an aero-but-heavy wheelset, popular for doing flat timetrials or triathlons, but not at all a climbing wheel - RRP is about £300ish (crikey they've gone up, used to be only about £220 last year !) and they are still available
Ksyrium's and Aksium's are more general-riding wheels from Mavic - Ksyrium's are above Aksium's in the range, come in Equipe, then Elite, then SSL, etc but are outside your price bracket, unless you do buy 2nd-hand e.g. on eBay.

In magazine reviews, Fulcrum R7 do come out as bombproof, good even if you're heavy, but Aksium seem to come-out just above them.
...or Planet-X : I'd be tempted to go for them
...or maybe Shimano RS20...

mikee_j

Thanks again for the advice. Think i'm going to go for the Aksium 09's. Found them online for £125 whereas the Fulcrum 7 are £116 online. to be honest, i think i'll be happy with whatever wheel set i go for as anything will be better than the standard ones i have at the moment.

Dazzawazza: thanks for the tip on the spacers. Any ideas where i can get a carbon spacer online?

I think i'll get the wheels and new tyres and see how i get on with them. I'll think about the next upgrade on next pay day! :P

andy_wrx

I think he's saying you have a lot of spacers under your stem, so your bars are high.

Well, why not ?

You can remove those spacers, lower the bars, the bike will look more racy
- but your back might not thank you for it !

If you do want to experiment, undo your stem bolts, remove the stem, take a spacer or two out, put the stem back and then the spacers on the top of it.
- see here for how to adjust the bearings http://www.parktool.com/repair/readhowto.asp?id=65

If this is too low, you can easily put them back again.
If you took a hacksaw to your steerer tube and cut it down, you'd be stuck with it, so don't do this until you're happy : that's why Specialized gave you lots of spacers, so you can fiddle around until you're happy.

I can't see the need to replace the spacers with carbon ones...it'll save you 5g or something...

bikeboff

Mikee, let us know how you get on with the new wheels, and whether they make a huge difference. I'll be interested to hear - thanks.