Where were Astana?

pottssteve
pottssteve Posts: 4,069
edited March 2009 in Pro race
Looking at the squad for Paris-Nice, they looked fairly strong. However, the only one who seemed to do anything was Contador. Little or no support most days, he rode a lot of it on his own, hence the result. Was he so much better that the rest couldn't keep up? Tactical errors? He was a man alone....
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Comments

  • DaveyL
    DaveyL Posts: 5,167
    To be fair, I do have a recollection of Popovych riding hard at the front for a bit on the stage Bertie won. I was paying more attention at the time to whether Popo was dropping Evans or not :-)
    Le Blaireau (1)
  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    I thought they looked weak on paper. Zubeldia and Popovych stood out as useful riders but seem to be a shadow of previous years.
  • FJS
    FJS Posts: 4,820
    Well, Paulinho and Noval are decent riders... but collectively underperforming.

    Popovych has been crap for some years now, at Lotto.
    You could see it even in a positive light: at least Popo has not suddenly 'magically' refound his old Disco/Landbouwkrediet/Italian amateur greatness at Astana.....
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,730
    Zubeldia may be a "name", but he's never been in any sort of nick in early March.
    Compare this team for the first major race of the year, with the fledgling Tour of California team.
    Remember, this is now a Kazakh squad, not a US one. Trek or not.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • OffTheBackAdam
    OffTheBackAdam Posts: 1,869
    This question passed through my mind, as I watched Contador go out the back door of every chasing group on the penultimate stage, not a sign of a team mate to help him.
    Even on yesterday's stage, Popo showed briefly, but appart from him. no one.
    I bet Armstrong isn't going to put up with this in the Giro!
    Remember that you are an Englishman and thus have won first prize in the lottery of life.
  • micron
    micron Posts: 1,843
    Yet Contador has had to put up with it just about every time he's ridden for Astana - his Giro team last year were pants and nowhere to be seen, not unlike this team. Of course, they're saving themselves for the Giro/Tour but to ride for Contador? I think not.

    It's psychological warfare - if he thinks he'll get the nod from Bruyneel ahead of Armstrong for the Tour he's a poor deluded fool. The whole situation reminds me of the 'I'll ride for you in the Vuelta' rubbish that Heras was always sold.
  • Kléber
    Kléber Posts: 6,842
    But Heras was a bit player, Contador is the best Grand Tour rider going.

    I think the whole Armstrong vs. Contador "war" is just a distraction. Contador's clocked several wins this year, Armstrong has yet to even race in Europe, yet alone place anywhere. Bruyneel would be crazy to annoy Contador otherwise the Spaniard will be off to another team, he would even buy himself out of his contract. Armstrong has everything to prove, Contador has nothing to prove.
  • secretsqirrel
    secretsqirrel Posts: 2,137
    micron wrote:
    Yet Contador has had to put up with it just about every time he's ridden for Astana - his Giro team last year were pants and nowhere to be seen, not unlike this team. Of course, they're saving themselves for the Giro/Tour but to ride for Contador? I think not

    I completely disagree, the Giro and Vuelta squads Astana put out did a good job escorting Contador to the victories, and he acknowledged this.

    However the Paris-Nice team did not seem to be supporting Contador at all which I find quite bizarre. At the finish only 4 of them (inc Bertie) completed the course.

    I look at the team selections this year and it is almost as if there is a split between Astana/Disco rider e.g. ToC all but one were a Disco re-union (no Kazakh riders either), Terrano-Adriatico is pretty much old school Astana. P-N squad looked like the scraps left over.

    It was hell of a toughener for Contador and he will learn a lot from the experience, he will get even stronger.
  • Cumulonimbus
    Cumulonimbus Posts: 1,730
    edited March 2009
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    Zubeldia may be a "name", but he's never been in any sort of nick in early March.

    He also had a bit of a non-event generally last year - 5th in the 2007 tour de france, then in 2008 with Contador and Leipheimer (1st and 3rd in 1007) both out of the picture he could only manage 45th.
  • FJS
    FJS Posts: 4,820
    I haven't seen it yet, but according to the always fast and reliable www.sporza.be reports in the Tirreno-Adriatico Kloden also missed attack and then 'hardly had any help from his team in the pursuit'.....
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,730
    Astana again undone, by having a very weak team.

    All I can say is, I hope the Tour of Californian, Lance/Levi bandwagon was worth it, because they have thrown away two MAJOR European Tour titles, to keep an emerging, New World one.

    Odd priorities for a Kazakh outfit. :roll:
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • calvjones
    calvjones Posts: 3,850
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    Astana again undone, by having a very weak team.

    All I can say is, I hope the Tour of Californian, Lance/Levi bandwagon was worth it, because they have thrown away two MAJOR European Tour titles, to keep an emerging, New World one.

    Odd priorities for a Kazakh outfit. :roll:

    Yes, but the USA is an economic powerhouse... oh, no, wait...
    ___________________

    Strava is not Zen.
  • moray_gub
    moray_gub Posts: 3,328
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    Astana again undone, by having a very weak team.

    :

    With the Paris Nice team unavailable and Lance and Levi god knows where how much stronger could it really have been ?



    MG
    Gasping - but somehow still alive !
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,730
    Moray Gub wrote:
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    Astana again undone, by having a very weak team. :

    With the Paris Nice team unavailable and Lance and Levi god knows where how much stronger could it really have been ?

    MG

    With Horner out and Brajkovic crashing out at T-A, not a lot. It's going to be a problem for teams that specialise in stage racing, having squads of 25.

    However, LL and LA got time off after Cali. The question is: Of the three Tours, so far this season, (boosting Cali's status) which, for a European team, should be the most important to win?
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • moray_gub
    moray_gub Posts: 3,328
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    Moray Gub wrote:
    Blazing Saddles wrote:
    Astana again undone, by having a very weak team. :

    With the Paris Nice team unavailable and Lance and Levi god knows where how much stronger could it really have been ?

    MG

    With Horner out and Brajkovic crashing out at T-A, not a lot. It's going to be a problem for teams that specialise in stage racing, having squads of 25.

    However, LL and LA got time off after Cali. The question is: Of the three Tours, so far this season, (boosting Cali's status) which, for a European team, should be the most important to win?

    PN then TA then Cali for me and i suspect most of us . But looking againg at their TA team it really wasnt all that bad so i think to say they had a very weak team isnt telling the whole story.

    MG
    Gasping - but somehow still alive !
  • stagehopper
    stagehopper Posts: 1,593
    Leipheimer was due to race P-N with Contador but fractured that bone at the base of his back in ToC so changed his schedule to rest up. Think Horner was also due to race but pulled out due to injury?

    If anything Astana's squad looks old and past its best.
    @stagehopper
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,730
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    Just a bit of satire to be laughed at Dennis. Don't take it too seriously!
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • micron
    micron Posts: 1,843
    I'm not aware that Contador had a strong team at the Giro - if he did they were nowhere to be seen as soon as the road went up.

    Bruyneel and Armstrong, with their scathing remarks about inexperience, are obviously playing the usual mindgames. I hope Contador buys himself out as surely he must be able to see the way the wind is blowing?
  • JonnyCash
    JonnyCash Posts: 37
    I just hope it turns into a Lemond - Hinault style head to head at the Tour.....

    Should be great viewing watching them attack each other in the mountains!!!
  • dave_1
    dave_1 Posts: 9,512
    JonnyCash wrote:
    I just hope it turns into a Lemond - Hinault style head to head at the Tour.....

    Should be great viewing watching them attack each other in the mountains!!!

    me too...it would be an awesome battle.If Bruyneel is serious about his job, and yates, they should ask LA to shut it for a while...Contador does not deserve or need criticism based on his palmares...very mouthy on twiiter is LA...come out of retirement to critique a guy who's given that team 3 grand tour wins...what cheek LA has
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKBacb2V ... ata_player
  • Bonus
    Bonus Posts: 316
    I must say, when Alberto cracked and fell backwards through the bunch I was amazed not to see any of his team mates pick him up and tow him back to the leading group. No other team mates, no team car - nothing.
  • secretsqirrel
    secretsqirrel Posts: 2,137
    micron wrote:
    I'm not aware that Contador had a strong team at the Giro - if he did they were nowhere to be seen as soon as the road went up

    21 Levi Leipheimer (USA)
    22 Alberto Contador Velasco (Spa)
    23 Vladimir Gusev (Rus)
    24 Antonio Colom Mas (Spa)
    25 Maxim Iglinsky (Kaz)
    26 Steve Morabito (Swi)
    27 Andrey Mizurov (Kaz)
    28 Andreas Klöden (Ger)
    29 Assan Bazayev (Kaz)

    Micron,
    This was the team cobbled together the week before before the Giro started. What on earth do you call a strong team?

    I agree Leipheimer was a no show, but (most notably) Kloden, Colom, Iglinsky and Bazayev were constant companions for Contador. I can only imagine that you saw the last couple of kms of the mountain stages after their work was done.
  • dave_1
    dave_1 Posts: 9,512
    some harsh words from Yatesy re Contador

    http://www.seanyates.co.uk/diary/new.htm
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKBacb2V ... ata_player
  • calvjones
    calvjones Posts: 3,850
    "I hear it made good TV, so that cannot be bad. But I think the general consensus is that Alberto by the way he rides compromises his chances sometimes"


    He was alone, watching 3 riders relatively close on GC, so he forgot to/couldn't eat, so he bonked. What an idiot, eh? None of these 3 Astana jackasses have the class to hold up their hands and say it was even in part their own fault.

    With friends like these...
    ___________________

    Strava is not Zen.
  • DaveyL
    DaveyL Posts: 5,167
    Jeez, you guys know sod all about the sport of professional bike racing. According to Alain Gallopin, it was all Saxo Bank's fault:

    http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id= ... /mar17news

    Astana, Saxo Bank at odds over Nice tactics

    Tactics to modify the overall classification or defend position on Paris-Nice's final stage has caused a stir between teams, namely Astana and Saxo Bank. During Eurosport's live commentary Astana's directeur sportif Alain Gallopin was critical over Saxo Bank's choice to chase hard alongside race leader Luis León Sánchez (Caisse d'Epargne) behind Alberto Contador's breakaway.

    The winner of three Grand Tours was the virtual race leader at one point on the final stage, with his three-man break taking a 2.30 minute advantage. The gap was eventually reduced to 17 seconds at the end on the Promenade des Anglais.

    "It's Saxo Bank's defeat today," Gallopin repeated after the race. "I went up to [Saxo Bank's directeur sportif] Kim Andersen and I told him that finishing second, third or fourth was the same thing. Had they waited for the gap to be bigger, they would have counter-attacked Sánchez and Fränk Schleck could have won Paris-Nice."

    Saxo Bank's defensive tactic earned Schleck second place overall behind Sanchez. Saxo Bank's second directeur sportif Bradley McGee found it easy to answer Gallopin's allegations.

    "I'm a fan of Gallopin as a directeur sportif," said McGee, who rode under Gallopin at Française des Jeux in the early part of his professional career. "But it seems they made a tactical error in attacking from so far out. He should have done it later at a more appropriate time where the other teams couldn't get organised to chase.

    "They have made mistakes during the whole week of Paris-Nice, so did everyone including ourselves. But one shouldn't blame others for their own mistakes, and ultimately the results of the race were correct."
    Le Blaireau (1)
  • blazing_saddles
    blazing_saddles Posts: 22,730
    What did they expect?
    They started this ball rolling, by buying in QS to chase Nibali and Schleck at Cali, when, once again, their domestiques had been imploded on the main climb, by young bro.

    A case of sour grapes from the biter, bit.
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • timoid.
    timoid. Posts: 3,133
    Dave_1 wrote:
    some harsh words from Yatesy re Contador

    http://www.seanyates.co.uk/diary/new.htm

    He's an idiot. He should keep his gurning mouth shut and show some loyalty.
    It's a little like wrestling a gorilla. You don't quit when you're tired. You quit when the gorilla is tired.
  • dave_1
    dave_1 Posts: 9,512
    Timoid. wrote:
    Dave_1 wrote:
    some harsh words from Yatesy re Contador

    http://www.seanyates.co.uk/diary/new.htm

    He's an idiot. He should keep his gurning mouth shut and show some loyalty.

    indeed...Yatesy should show a little more gratitude to the guy who keeps them in jobs...and has the potential to for far longer than yesterday's man LA
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKBacb2V ... ata_player
  • Cumulonimbus
    Cumulonimbus Posts: 1,730
    Am i the only one who read the title and found myself adding on 'and frankly, who cares?' :D (from the commentary on Great Britain's hockey win over Germany in the 1988 Olympics)

    Bruyneel wasnt there but i would have thought he would have told the whole team about riding in crosswinds, i thought Belgians were used to that sort of thing? One of the few Vuelta stages i have ever seen saw US Postal employ exactly the same tactic to drop Mancebo (who was 4th?) and get some of their guys higher on GC.
  • dave_1
    dave_1 Posts: 9,512
    well...I don't know who to agree with, someone claiming to be Robert Millar says something different to Yates

    http://twitter.com/RobertMillar
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKBacb2V ... ata_player

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