why do saracen get such a hard time???

rustybug69
rustybug69 Posts: 120
edited March 2009 in MTB general
can anyone explain the above? i'm currently riding a 2008 zen 3 with mavic xm719 rims full xt and revelation forks and get sick of seeing the brand slagged off on forums and the odd looks out on the trail cos i'm not on the usual spesh,trek,gt etc! I've compared and ridden my zen back to back against several other long forked hardtails and gotta say i think it equals if not exceeds anyting else in the same price range (circa £1000). opions welcome :wink:
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Comments

  • well i can remember someone telling me once that the reason saracen get a load sh!t is because they used to make realy cheap bikes for non-serious mountain bikers (and were talkin below 200 pounds at most here) but then when places like tesco started selling cheap bikes saracen couldnt keep up with the other low prices so recently they decided to start making decent mountain bikes for porper riders (there getting the hang of it :lol: ) so people who mouth off saracen are living in the past (or stuck up there arse with several 5 grand carbon fibre race machines)

    and personaly i think saracen do great beginners bikes and now do some good bikes for more experianced riders, i quiet like the zen range myself
  • ratty2k
    ratty2k Posts: 3,872
    Alex is right, unfortunately mud sticks.... I think if they carry on the way they are going things will improve for them.
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  • ratty2k wrote:
    Alex is right

    woo, its not often i hear that :lol:
  • Duffer
    Duffer Posts: 379
    i think it's good to see some more unusual brands out and about. i ride a Da Bomb, and i don't think i've seen another one.

    anyway, the Zen range have recieved consistently good reviews in the media, so it must be good. in many ways the Saracen brand is like the Skoda of the MTB world. people joke about what they used to make, but nowadays they turn out some genuinely quality products.
  • If you can find a photo of a 2001 Saracen Raw you would understand. You can only make so many bikes like that before people start to think you're just not trying...
  • jeem
    jeem Posts: 3
    An old mate of mine had a saracen circa 96 , It was a well built , high end shimano components ,,


    He bought it from a LBS, spent about a £700,
    at the same time Halfords were selling saracen's for £200 quid that were not much better than there apollo range.



    Jeem
    Its a poor heart that never rejoices .
  • mattyboy199
    mattyboy199 Posts: 627
    reminds me of the clothing brand Sonneti, not a strong brand, never appealed to me but there was always some wearing it.
    Show me your green bits i might buy them !
  • supersonic
    supersonic Posts: 82,708
    They have always produced a range of bikes from the really cheap to the really expensive.

    They stick out in my mind though for a couple of things - in the late 90s they brought out the first genuinely usable 500 quid full susser, and the first 300 quid Ht that had sus forks, V brakes and an alloy frame. Both were massive sellers and test winners.

    They also were the first to really get the long travel HT geo sorted with the Zen. This bike has always won tests.

    I've had two Saracens and both have been great value and good performers.

    The suib 200 quid ones are crap though, like most from any other manufacturer.
  • ratty2k
    ratty2k Posts: 3,872
    Yer, but the problem is an awful lot of people associate Saracen with the sub £200 bikes- more so than the "better" brands...
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    Whadda ya mean I dont believe in god?
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  • dave_hill
    dave_hill Posts: 3,877
    What a lot of people don't realise is that the Saracen brand has been going for almost 25 years. The used to produce some really good stuff in the mid to late 80s - who remembers the original Kili Flyer? That was a proper bike, every bit on a par with the Stumpjumpers and Muddy Fox Explorers of the time.

    Unfortunately, they really went downhill (no pun intended) in the 90s - Saracen full-bouncers were the ride of choice for the pre-Nova SRi age group.

    It seems that they are getting their act together again though and with some good results, though as someone has already said, mud sticks.

    It's good to see that Raleigh are coming to the fore again, perhaps we might see a resurgence of Muddy Fox?
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  • jamieh5463
    jamieh5463 Posts: 223
    they do make nice bikes look @ this, nobody can really say thats cheap can they?
    http://www.saracencycles.com/index.php? ... Itemid=452
  • passout
    passout Posts: 4,425
    I think the ownership of Saracen has changed and they may have gone under at some point. Thisd might be connected. - I'm a bit vague on this though. They've always made some decent bikes though.
    'Happiness serves hardly any other purpose than to make unhappiness possible' Marcel Proust.
  • Gwaredd
    Gwaredd Posts: 251
    I get the same reaction when I turn up on my Claud Butler Stone River. The bike itself was around £280 when new (I paid £100 2nd hand) & is pretty much a starter XC bike, but mine is now a bit like Triggers broom & only the frame is standard around upgraded parts. I often get comments like 'All you need now is a decent frame & you'll have a good bike' but the frame weighs 5lb, is built like an ox & (most importantly) fits me perfectly. why spend £300 - £500 on a 'brand' frame that'll weigh maybe at most a pound less & maybe not fit me as well :?

    The best bit is when you get to smoke Carbon Zaskars, GT's & Specialized bikes along the trails. I know the bike has still got a lot more in it before I even think about upgrading, so I will have to put up the the 'badge snobs' a while longer yet!
  • Who cares,If you like your bike and are having fun,thats all that counts
  • prawny
    prawny Posts: 5,440
    dave_hill wrote:
    What a lot of people don't realise is that the Saracen brand has been going for almost 25 years. The used to produce some really good stuff in the mid to late 80s - who remembers the original Kili Flyer? That was a proper bike, every bit on a par with the Stumpjumpers and Muddy Fox Explorers of the time.

    Oh yes, properly lovely! I think i've still got an old brochure at my parents from about '93.

    They did go under a few years back and got bought out I think by a chinese company. I've got a 2005(?) dirttrax disc and its not too bad, a bit stiff (my first alu frame) but i'm loathe to replace it because the spec is good, and it's got bosses for a crud catcher!

    The current range looks good, I wouldn't worry about the brand as long as it fits and you like it great (even better if you can destroy some brand snobs on the trails)
    Saracen Tenet 3 - 2015 - Dead - Replaced with a Hack Frame
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  • supersonic
    supersonic Posts: 82,708
    Gwaredd wrote:
    I get the same reaction when I turn up on my Claud Butler Stone River. The bike itself was around £280 when new (I paid £100 2nd hand) & is pretty much a starter XC bike, but mine is now a bit like Triggers broom & only the frame is standard around upgraded parts. I often get comments like 'All you need now is a decent frame & you'll have a good bike' but the frame weighs 5lb, is built like an ox & (most importantly) fits me perfectly. why spend £300 - £500 on a 'brand' frame that'll weigh maybe at most a pound less & maybe not fit me as well :?

    The best bit is when you get to smoke Carbon Zaskars, GT's & Specialized bikes along the trails. I know the bike has still got a lot more in it before I even think about upgrading, so I will have to put up the the 'badge snobs' a while longer yet!

    Of course, a good rider helps ;-)

    5lbs is quite heavy for an XC frame, but as you say, fit is most important and it will be tough.

    You can get frames less than 3lbs for 400 quid though ;-)

    Saracen have just been bought out and will produce a new range of bikes for 2010.

    Of, I forgot to mention the budget jump bikes they did - Xile, Xess. Sold bucket loads and opened up the DJ scene to many a rider.

    Saracen were always one step ahead of the market, and had aggressively priced bikes. However the others caught on and caught up.
  • I had an old xess!! was red and black with a big orange chain guide on it :lol:
    I'd still be riding that bike not if some fecker haddn't nicked it! took lots of abuse!!

    My bro still has his xile sat in the basement of his flat, all the components are shite and solidified, but the frame is perfect...only has minor stone chips and again he wasn't gentle with it!
  • supersonic
    supersonic Posts: 82,708
    They were great, 300 for the whole bike!

    if it said Orange on it, everyone would have been cooing at the big downtube and beefy weld, and paid 600 just for the frame...
  • ratty2k
    ratty2k Posts: 3,872
    Who cares,If you like your bike and are having fun,thats all that counts


    This may well be the bestest most sensibleist post ever in the history of bikeradar and whatever was around beforehand! :!: :!: :!: :!: :D
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    Whadda ya mean I dont believe in god?
    I talk to him everyday....
  • nicklouse
    nicklouse Posts: 50,675
    ratty2k wrote:
    Who cares,If you like your bike and are having fun,thats all that counts


    This may well be the bestest most sensibleist post ever in the history of bikeradar and whatever was around beforehand! :!: :!: :!: :!: :D

    Almost. anything with chemical wartet in it is better. :wink:
    "Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
    Parktools :?:SheldonBrown
  • ratty2k
    ratty2k Posts: 3,872
    :lol:

    For those that dont know what nick ios on about...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JD1KOXbrfw
    My Pics !


    Whadda ya mean I dont believe in god?
    I talk to him everyday....
  • I recently got a 2008 saracen zen 2 and its brilliant
    It's brought my riding on loads and was a bargain (£600)
  • nicklouse
    nicklouse Posts: 50,675
    ratty2k wrote:
    :lol:

    For those that dont know what nick ios on about...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JD1KOXbrfw

    or see here http://www.bikeradar.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=12609175
    "Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
    Parktools :?:SheldonBrown
  • k2rider
    k2rider Posts: 575
    i ride a 2002 saracen recoil xc, great bike, superb ride, pity they had to discontinue it.

    saracenrecoilxc.jpg

    i think the problem with saracen is that the bike snobs wont go into a halfords store, boardman bikes have been getting great reviews in every publication going yet people slag them off for being sold in halfords, if it keeps the prices down then i for one wont care, my next roadie will be a boardman.
    who cares?
  • Surf-Matt
    Surf-Matt Posts: 5,952
    Saracen and Claud Butler did go very downmarket for a while as did several other brands -chasing volume while killing their brand at the same time.


    The Kili Flyer is a proper classic though.

    I don't think it matters but it is irksome when something you own and know is very good gets pasted all the time by the press for no good reason.
  • I think I read in one of the mag's recently (last few months?) that the Saracen brand had been/was to be sold.
    I guess that if the Zen appears in a regular LBS, and not Halfords, all that misguided snobbery(?) will disappear.
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  • stevieboy
    stevieboy Posts: 704
    Don't worry, I get looked down on riding my Scale! Pisses me right off!

    It's these trailcentre pillocks that give proper mtber's a bad name, roll up in an X5, get on their £5k full susser and piss around at 3mph avoiding mud and puddles acting as mobile trail blocks for everybody.

    Just do what I do, smoke the tarts :lol:
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  • GTracer
    GTracer Posts: 123
    I used to ride a 1998? saracen havoc which i thought was great at the time - looking back it was a bit heavy, and now my mum still uses its. ill get some pics when im next round there
  • Firstly I love sonneti clothes am I just weird ? Secondly you know what I cannot stand people who look down there noses at other riders, ooh look at you with your 3 grand bike lucky you, yeah sure it would be nice if we could all afford the newest equipment but most people have to make do the best they can and I hate the snobbery you get with some people, who do they think they are to judge other people, you know I've been riding a long time but I still just wear my old nike tennis trainers (there so old the soles have turned into solid rubber making them ideal ha ha) and have made do with bits of inner tube instead of 8 quid chainstay protectors and stuff like that, without wanting to generalise too much, a lot of these "trick riders" wouldnt come out if they had to ride a cheap bike, so who loves mountain biking more, someone whos prepared to be out on a £300 hardtail and maybe not all the kit he would like, or someone who looks like he's won a supermarket sweep in evans cycles ???? Keep the snobbyness to yourself coz us real mountain bikers dont care anyway we're having far too much fun riding !!!!!
  • Furbes
    Furbes Posts: 289
    Firstly I love sonneti clothes am I just weird ? Secondly you know what I cannot stand people who look down there noses at other riders, ooh look at you with your 3 grand bike lucky you, yeah sure it would be nice if we could all afford the newest equipment but most people have to make do the best they can and I hate the snobbery you get with some people, who do they think they are to judge other people, you know I've been riding a long time but I still just wear my old nike tennis trainers (there so old the soles have turned into solid rubber making them ideal ha ha) and have made do with bits of inner tube instead of 8 quid chainstay protectors and stuff like that, without wanting to generalise too much, a lot of these "trick riders" wouldnt come out if they had to ride a cheap bike, so who loves mountain biking more, someone whos prepared to be out on a £300 hardtail and maybe not all the kit he would like, or someone who looks like he's won a supermarket sweep in evans cycles ???? Keep the snobbyness to yourself coz us real mountain bikers dont care anyway we're having far too much fun riding !!!!!

    I couldn't have put it better myself :) Leave them tossers to their sad lives & you just enjoy yourself :wink: