How much difference does a triple make

kingrollo
kingrollo Posts: 3,198
edited March 2009 in Workshop
ive always struggled up the hills - the other day some suggested it was (in part) due to the gearing on my bike - its a pinarello and came with race tyre gearing ratios , I love the way that the bike accerelates and woudn't want to alter that - so was wondering if a triple would help me .....and how much easier would a triple be to pedal ?

its a campag centaur 9 - what would i need to buy to go triple ?

Comments

  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    What ratio is your chainset and cassette?

    I used to be always moaning on my club runs saying I need a triple cause I sucked at hills, but I soon improved and I'd cringe at the thought of a triple now :p
  • kingrollo
    kingrollo Posts: 3,198
    how do I measure my gear ratio's ?
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    They have the ratios on each ring. For example on a compact chainset, it's 34 for the smaller ring, and 50 for the larger rings (amount of teeth), usually on each ring it'll show the numbers (34T, 50T)
  • meagain
    meagain Posts: 2,331
    kingrollo wrote:
    how do I measure my gear ratio's ?

    In simple approximate terms "No. of front teeth divided by no. of rear teeth times 27".

    This gives the most commonly used "measurement" in UK, altho' it is a pretty arbitrary figure, relating ratios back to the diamater of the front wheel on an ordinary (penny farthing)! There are others - check out Sheldon Brown.

    So e.g. your highest gear will be approx 130 (53/11x27).
    d.j.
    "Cancel my subscription to the resurrection."
  • kingrollo
    kingrollo Posts: 3,198
    ok - will check that out tomorrow - but as for my other two points

    - Leaving the rear sprocket alone - how much difference would a triple make ?

    - What would I need to buy ? - any idea of total cost ?
  • kingrollo
    kingrollo Posts: 3,198
    ok - will check that out tomorrow - but as for my other two points

    - Leaving the rear sprocket alone - how much difference would a triple make ?

    - What would I need to buy ? - any idea of total cost ?
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous Posts: 79,667
    kingrollo wrote:
    ok - will check that out tomorrow - but as for my other two points

    - Leaving the rear sprocket alone - how much difference would a triple make ?

    - What would I need to buy ? - any idea of total cost ?

    I don't know how much difference a tripple will make, I've never tried one, my guess is it'll make hills slightly easier as you can spin more.

    If your front chainset is a 53/39 then going to a 50/34 would probs help abit too.

    For converting to a tripple you'd need to make sure the following things (if I'm wrong I hope someone will correct me, I'm still learning)

    You need to make sure your rear mech is ok with it, I think a long cage hanger on the rear mech is needed for a tripple.

    You need to make sure your front mech and shifters are compatible with tripple.

    You'd need the chainset obviously, and a BB (Bottom Bracket), if you are using the Hollowtech 2 BB's (external bottom brackets that consist of a cup either side of the BB frame area, if you have one already it may be usable.
  • blorg
    blorg Posts: 1,169
    In order of ease/increasing cost, you should look at:

    - changing the cassette, Campagnolo go up to 29t on the back
    - changing the double at the front to a compact- this generally has a 34t small ring
    - getting a triple- road triples have a 30t granny ring

    Cassette change is really easy and the compact not too much more involved, I would only look at getting a triple after you have exhausted your options. Bigger cogs at the back will produce the same result for less money. I am not sure if you might need to change the rear derailleur going to 34 front 29 back on Campagnolo though.
  • Recommended combinations for Campag
    Double or CT (Compact) crankset + short cage rear derailleur; all campag sprockets sets except the 13-29
    Double or CT crankset + medium cage derailleur; all Campag sprocket sets
    Triple crankset + medium cage rear derailleur; all Campag sprocket sets except the 13-29 set
    Triple crankset + long cage rear Derailleur; all Campag sprocket sets

    Short cage 55 mm upper to lower pulley
    medium cage 72.5 mm - ditto -
    Long cage 89 mm - ditto -
  • dilemna
    dilemna Posts: 2,187
    Basically if you want a low gear solely for climbing stick a 27 or 32 teeth sprocket on the back, you may have to sacrifice some of your other sprockets by re-arranging the sprockets to achieve a suitable spread of ratios or you could just buy a whole new cassette sutiable for climbing. This might be the best option on reflection. Bear in mind though you may need a longer cage deraillieur as stated above and also a few more links in your chain. This will be the cheapest option rather than splashing out on a triple chain set which will need a new wider bottom bracket, long cage front mech, new STI shifter as well as possibly bar tape as you'll probably have to take part or all of that off. Also you might be able to fit a smaller ring on your current double chainset or alternatively fit a compact chainset as suggested above. But fitting a triple chainset would be rather expensive especially if you like nice kit. What sort of inclines and for how long are you climbing?
    Alex
    Life is like a roll of toilet paper; long and useful, but always ends at the wrong moment. Anon.
    Think how stupid the average person is.......
    half of them are even more stupid than you first thought.
  • Hell below zero !
    Hell below zero ! Posts: 59
    edited February 2009
    The max cassette sprocket for Campagnoly is 29, also you wouldn't need new Centaur Ergopower shifters as they work on double or triple chainsets / front derailleur. The need for a new bottom bracket actually depends on the diameter of your seat tube. You need a 111 mm axle length for double or triple chainset with 28.6 dia seat tube. You need a 115.5 mm axle length if you use a triple chainset with a 32 mm or 35 mm dia seat tube. I note you are still running 9 speed Centaur and so assume the bottom bracket is the old style cartridge bottom bracket with the tapered axle ! I have seen recently brand new older style Campag Record 10 speed triple chainsets which can used with 9 speed systems at very low prices, the same for the Compact style as well.
  • caw35slr
    caw35slr Posts: 439
    I ride with a Centaur triple (50/40/30T). The principal advantage is that you can get away with a cassette with closer spaced cogs. Having said that, I have a new build coming up and I'm going compact (50/34T) with a 13-26T cassette.

    You can bag a 2006 Chorus or Record (tapered axle) triple crankset from JE James. See Hell Below's post for BB details. The last thing you'll need is a pre-QS triple front mech that'll work with your existing shifters (I'm pretty sure that anything 2006 or earlier will fit the bill). You can find these on eBay.
  • kingrollo
    kingrollo Posts: 3,198
    ok folks original poster here.......its a 53/39 - and the largest cog on the cassette has 21 teeth ?

    what should I buy to get up the hills easier ?
  • h14turbo
    h14turbo Posts: 329
    i would go for the larger rear casette. Its by far the cheapest and easiest option.
  • Wappygixer
    Wappygixer Posts: 1,396
    A 21 tooth cassette is pretty small.
    I'd look at getting a 25 or 27 tooth cassette and save the 21 for the flats of for when your legs are stronger
    Cassette and chain will probably cost £50-60 as where a chainset and parts will cost nearly double that
  • John.T
    John.T Posts: 3,698
    Cheapest would be fit a Mirage 13/26 cassette. Next if you want a bit lower gear, Veloce 13/28.
    Scroll down here.
    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Categories.aspx?CategoryID=573
  • rickhotrod
    rickhotrod Posts: 181
    Your 39/21 bottom gear is too high for hills. Try a 9-speed 13-26. It's just like a 10-speed 13-29 except without the 29!
  • kingrollo
    kingrollo Posts: 3,198
    Is it a case of just taking the old cassette off & putting a new one on - or would I have to adjust the derailler ? - what tools would I need ?
  • kingrollo
    kingrollo Posts: 3,198
    Is it a case of just taking the old cassette off & putting a new one on - or would I have to adjust the derailler ? - what tools would I need ?
  • kingrollo
    kingrollo Posts: 3,198
    Is it a case of just taking the old cassette off & putting a new one on - or would I have to adjust the derailler ? - what tools would I need ?
  • kingrollo
    kingrollo Posts: 3,198
    Is it a case of just taking the old cassette off & putting a new one on - or would I have to adjust the derailler ? - what tools would I need ?
  • giant_man
    giant_man Posts: 6,878
    The tools you would need are a chain whip to hold the old cassette still, and a spline lockring tool and a wrench. The following is a good guide:

    http://bicycletutor.com/replace-cassette-cluster/

    When you are ready to put on your new chain, (which most people agree should be replaced when changing your cassette) this is a good guide for calculating chain length:

    http://bicycletutor.com/calculate-chain-length/

    You may have to adjust the rear derallieur, not a massive job, adjusting the B, H or L screws.

    This is a good thread re ratios, and the answers have been very good from posters.
  • John.T
    John.T Posts: 3,698
    Basicaly yes. You may need to lengthen the chain and if it has any age on it at all you should replace it and set it to the correct length.
    You can find all you need to know about doing the job here. Bookmark the site. It can save a lot of asking here.
    http://www.parktool.com/repair/
  • meagain
    meagain Posts: 2,331
    Going from 39x21 to 39x27 will, for example, reduce your lowest gear from c.50" to 40" - a 20% reduction. And won't achieve much of a reduction in any other front/rear combinations. It may be that only a triple (or to a lesser extent a compact double) will give you the lower gearing you need - especially across the range rather than just at the extreme.
    d.j.
    "Cancel my subscription to the resurrection."
  • John.T
    John.T Posts: 3,698
    Use Sheldon Brown's gear calculator to check your options. I still use 'gear inches' to compare as it is probably the most understood in the UK (by us old timers anyway). You can make direct comparisons between various rings and sprocket combinations. It also gives % difference between gear ratios.
    http://sheldonbrown.com/gears/
    13/26 or 13/28 will give a wider range of gears than you have at the moment but the gaps will be a bit wider. 53/13 is good for well over 30 mph and you should be able to get up 20% hills on 39/26 (this is rather dependent on how fit you are though). I managed Ventoux on 39/27 but it was tough. I now use 34/27 and to be honest anything lower would not be much help. I just seem to go slower and end up pushing just as hard. I stopped using a triple about 5 years ago.
  • akkers
    akkers Posts: 140
    If you can climb 20% hills using a 39/26, yo must be a very strong cyclist. I did the Burgess Hill Sportive on Sunday which had a 20% hilld, around 0.6km long and on a 39/26 I couldnt do it, and Im relatively fit. All other cyclist also had to get off and walk. The only ones who managed to get up there were those on compacts.

    Well done if you can do it using those gears - impressive :wink:
  • John.T
    John.T Posts: 3,698
    Back in the 60s most of us had 43/23 bottom gears. We still rode over Fleet Moss from both sides. From Hawes was a bit hard. Park Rash was a sod but it does have a short 30% and several 25% sections. Once you started you had to get up. Your feet were fixed to the pedals by straps and shoe plates. If you could not get too the strap QR you had 2 options, ride or fall.
    We was ard then. :twisted: I wish I had half the strength now.
  • kingrollo
    kingrollo Posts: 3,198
    I m going to go for the cheap option of a new rear sprocket & chain - compact chainset came out about £170 - by the time a shop had fitted it ? - this is to much to throw at a 8 year old bike !

    Anybody know where I can get a cheap veloce 26 or 27 sprocket ?
  • Mister W
    Mister W Posts: 791
    You need a chain whip, a cassette removal tool and a torque wrench .... although that's not essential. You should have to make no other adjustments. If your current cassette is quite old you should change your chain as well.
  • kingrollo
    kingrollo Posts: 3,198
    What difference would a mirage v a veloce cassette make ? - in terms of shifting quality -

    or if I went for a 28 rather than a 26 ?