LBS being annoying or is it me?! Wheel trueing

Surf-Matt

Mentioned a week or so ago that my wheel had gone out of true by a decent amount and for some reason my tyre (a part worn and rather pricey Conti MK Protection!) warped.

Took the wheel in to be trued - they also sorted a graunchy hub (new cone, regrease, etc).
Picked it up on Saturday then got it home and although listed on the job "tab" they had forgotten to true it (still cost me £50 for a new tyre + labour for the hub!).

This meant no riding for me on Sunday (they are closed) - so went in rather irately yesterday and demanded they sort it telling them how I'd missed a big Sunday ride.

They told me it was hardly out of true and didn't really need doing! I told them to do it anyway (that's why I took it in - and they had it for over a week due to being "busy") and picked it up - they had another moan about it not really needing to be done as it was only a mil or two out.

Now am I being a demanding git or are they out of order? They had the wheel for over a week, charged me a lot (and forgot my usual 10% discount - I'm a very regular customer and spend a fortune there), forgot the main part of the work then forced me to miss some Sunday riding THEN basically told me I was being daft.

They have made a few other errors in the past and they are all starting to add up...

Hmmm....

Popeh

If you wanted a spoke painting green and they agreed a price for it, it should be done regardless of if they think it needed it or not.

During times like these you'd think they'd be making an exceptional effort to keep you happy, not promoting you to look elsewhere.

I'm not experienced enough to tell you if it makes a difference, but i've been in retail long enough.

Tempestas

You paid for it, asked for it and they didn't do it.....sounds like a crap shop

MrChuck

What Popeh and Tempestas said. Time to find another shop?

allthegearnoidea

osunds like they didnt want to do it matt, i'd make sure that they do it gratis and ideally refund you your discount! and then make sure any other work they do is done to the letter or as said other shop time, only trouble there is its redruth area (bikechain or bike barn) or liskeard (certini) as iirc there isnt another shop in the area??

stubs

It could be they couldnt get the wobble out. I am no expert but I have built and trued a few wheels and I have found it is very hard to get a small wobble out. I once spent a day chasing a wobble of a couple of mm round a rim bfore I gave up just before I got the lump hammer out and converted the wheel into scrap.

You might need to find a specialist wheel builder in your area.

Surf-Matt

Stubs - they did sort it in the end (it was one of their staff that said it needed trueing in the first place) - I just don't want a wobbly wheel, even if it's only slightly out!

Timmo - we are a bit thin on the ground and although Certini sounds excellent, it's a long wy to go! And I hate Bikechain too having had awful service there as well (totally blasted Spesh bikes - they don't stock them, generally miserable and patronising, stuffed up Shane's rear mech fitting, etc).

Sent them an email suggesting they pluck up their ideas. It's not all bad - they have been good too. Just adds up.

allthegearnoidea

yeah i have to admit bikechain isnt what it used to be thats for sure! used to be spot on but now its so hit and miss! hence why i like the bikebarn so much! top guys will do there best to help, order bits in etc, always have time for a chat etc.!
would like to have a nose at certini's but like you said, its a long way to go if your not passing,

dave_hill

Whilst you'll never ever get a wheel 100%, cock on, absolutey true, a couple of mm is quite an amount in anybody's book.

And if they've said they'd do it, they ought to do it.

Just playing Devil's advocate though and having the benefit of hindsight, what they should have told you was, we've tried and we can't get it any better than that.

Can you imagine taking your car to Kwik Fit and them telling you, you need new tyres, so you leave your car for an hour only to go back and have them tell you they haven't bothered, because they're not that worn really?

Not on, is it?

Surf-Matt

Dave - I think it's the fact that they had it so long, then missed out the main reason I went without my MTB for over a week! I used Mrs Matt's 2008 Rockhopper Disk which is actually pretty good but not the same.

They have made it a lot better at last but it was an expensive headache.

It's also not nice being made to look daft (sort of) when asking them to carry out a perfectly "normal" job for an LBS.

I think I'll get them back by making them fit pink spokey dokeys to it...

petercarm

I'm inclined to believe there is more to this story than is being presented. Considering that "bike experts" have been looking at the wheel in question and we are just internet conspiracy theorists...

... if faced with a wheel to true with loose graunchy bearings, I'd get the bearings sorted before assessing the need to true the wheel - bike shop did this right

... if the spoke tensions were good, a mm of out of true is naff all and not important. It is only important for rim brakes

... if the rim is out of true because the rim has taken a hit (pinch) that has damaged the rim, the wheel will never be perfect - you're into a compromise situation at this stage; it might have been the bike shops estimation that the best compromise was to leave the wheel as it was. Depending on the wheel, disturbing seized spoke nipples could cause more problems than it cures. Generally, well built wheels don't need truing unless they have rim damage.

I'm intrigued by the description of "for some reason my tyre warped". Usually this just means the bead isn't seated, but could be related to rim damage. All speculation without having the wheel and tyre in hand.

The description of the out of trueness is "a mil or two". Which is it? 2mm is double 1mm. Considering you're on an internet forum complaining I'm making the assumption that you are exaggerating aspects of the story that favour your point of view. If this is all you've got, the bike shop may well be in their rights to reserve the opinion that you are daft.

Favouring the view of reconciling this amicably I'm sure you could ask them to explain why they appeared so reluctant to true the wheel. If they can't explain it further than just being an opinion with no reasoning behind it then your complaint is entirely valid.

supersonic

Beaten to it!

I was going to say a good wheel is an evenly tesnioned wheel - quite often this is a perfectly true one, but quite often not. Rims rarely come perfectly round, often take small dings and warps, and can be noticable distortion at the join.

A wheel builder will trade off true and tension in some wheels, favouring true with a V brake set as Peter says.

Bearings must be adjusted first for this to be checked.

Surf-Matt

Peter - fair comments which is why I put it as a question rather than a straight rant.

Maybe they could have communicated a little better?
Telling me it needed trueing, taking the bike for over a week then forgetting to do the work (they did genuinely forget) is a bit off even in the hubs strip was a priority.

No idea what happened to the tyre but it had some sort of bulge in it - not handy in a near £40 tyre with plenty of wear left! But clearly not the LBS's fault.

I now know that a bit of wobble is okay on a disk braked wheel but didn't know that at the time - while I'm not bike expert, I know enough to not be looked at like some idiot. And I measured the amount it was out - right in the middle at 1.5mm.

Not sure how well the wheels were built TBH but AFAIK they are decentish DT Swiss rims and spoke tensions seems even.

They also:

Mis-sold us a bike (hub geared - told us the range was the same as a 21 speed MTB - it was not - but sorted it and refunded us)
Told me you can't get a QR seat clamp for a Stumpjumper - Hope do one and they stock Hope.
Tried to sort out problem brakes - made it worse and I ended it up sorting it much better myself.
When I needed a new chain, cables and cassette, I suggested that I must need a new chainset too (to keep the wear even) - they told me it would be fine. Half a mile into my ride it was slipping terribly. New chainset and BB needed. Fine but very inconvenient.
And a few other gripes.

petercarm

Glad you took my comments as intended.

It does sound like there is a communication issue. Obviously as you have described it the tyre issue is unconnected with the wheel issues.

Even in the industry, wheels are poorly understood by many. The distinction of "machine-built" vs. "hand built" is often cited, but I've been building my own wheels for 20 years (very successfully) with the best ones being those that I build in a systematic way that is almost "machine-like". Poorly handbuilt wheels are common too.

Just a few issues that can be lurking in a poorly built wheel:

... spoke nipples not lubricated (spokes wind-up, so accurate tensioning very difficult)
... spoke tension too low (leads to wheel moving out of true and spokes snapping)
... spoke line not corrected (leads to spokes snapping at the elbows)
... spoke tension uneven (leads to individual spokes loosening, wheel going out of true and spokes snapping).

If a wheel has been used in a poorly built state, any intervention with the wheel may result in broken spokes or spokes that fail shortly after the work has been done. It doesn't always happen, but it happens often enough that a bike shop will be a little bit wary of putting a spoke key on a spoke when it is not required. The customer will not appreciate that any emerging difficulties with the wheel were caused by the original build rather than the last person to touch them. I taught myself to build wheels because I'd had this sort of experience.

Like I said, we're just internet jockeys here, so all my comments are general and may not apply to your particular situation and your shop.

supersonic

Also not correctly stress relieving a new wheel.

Surf-Matt

Okay. I thought I knew a bit about bikes.
Actually I know sod all :oops:

allthegearnoidea

Matt, your nt the first one ot say bad of CM's communications and general staff, but as i have no experience of them apart from getting strange looks when i went in i cant comment,
troulbe is its a bit catch 22 for you, although the bike barn not being far out of porthtowan could combine it with some waves??

Surf-Matt

Timmo - I might give them a go next time something breaks. After all I've just spent, I hope that's a long way off!!

allthegearnoidea

haha! does get a bit like that hey! am thinking of a new cassette for mine. with the idea that current one is fine but would make a spot on spare for when i eventually get the second bike sorted, some of the shop prices are just plain silly!
sort oif think is it worth it!!

rog and darryl are good blokes, both into their sports big time and are really top peeps! will give you discount for cornwall mtb club too, always willing ot give advice too!
there slowly getting more gear in too as they have a good link with altura now and have a load of other bits and bobs!
worth a stop by and a natter one day though,

going to pop down next week and get the littlun a proper bike over her three wheel trike, last time we were there she jumped on one and rode around the shop on it, then took the price tag off and sat by the door on it as if i had bought it for her lol! very funny!

Surf-Matt

Just had a call and a rather humble apology (I emailed them on Monday) which does make things a lot better!

allthegearnoidea

glad its worked out in the end Matt!