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Hardtail or Full-suss - which is better for going up hill?

EnwezorEnwezor Posts: 124
edited February 2009 in MTB general
There is a debate raging in the office as to which type of mtb is better for going uphill during xc style riding
I ride a hardtail but I have been told by many people that a full-suss is not only better at going downhill but also uphill.
I have only demoed a full-suss for 20 minutes so can't tell.
For those who have a modern full-suss, is it better at going uphill as well as downhill?
Also, why do xc-racers like Julien Absalon ride a hardtail?

Which type of mountain bike is better for going uphil? 0 votes

Hardtail generally better than full suss at uphill
0% 0 votes
Full Suss generally better than full suss at uphill
0% 0 votes

Posts

  • The Northern MonkeyThe Northern Monkey Posts: 19,174
    :lol: not again, i'm sitting it out this time :roll:
    Santa Cruz Butcher
  • pdidpdid Posts: 1,065
    For straightforward xc terrain hardtail (think light) is the way forward. When it becomes more technical then a full bouncer comes into it's own because the back end will track the ground offering more grip.
    Commie Meta 5
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  • llamafarmerllamafarmer Posts: 1,893
    Enwezor wrote:
    I ride a hardtail but I have been told by many people that a full-suss is not only better at going downhill but also uphill.

    Also, why do xc-racers like Julien Absalon ride a hardtail?

    That would suggest it's very much personal pereference, but probably also very dependant on the terrain.

    Generally hardtail is stiffer and lighter, full sus can keep the back wheel on the ground better through the rough stuff.

    This debate does tend to be pretty hotly debated :lol:
    Giant Anthem X
    Cube Ltd Race
  • EnwezorEnwezor Posts: 124
    Doh! Knew it wouldn't be a simple answer!!!! :?
  • EnwezorEnwezor Posts: 124
    If I went for a 3 hour-type duration xc ride in the South Downs on a fairly light hardtail and then again on a fairly light full-suss - would I finish quicker on the full suss or the hardtail?
    Or is it perhaps a case of, if I am very fit and strong and don't get tired from riding the hardtail and the downhills, then the hardtail will be faster or conversely, if I don't have that level of fitness, then the full-suss will get me round faster.?

    Thought I'd add that to the mix.
  • llamafarmerllamafarmer Posts: 1,893
    It's just not that black and white mate. How rough and technical is the route you're riding? It could be a complete rock garden, in which case the FS is going to really come into its own, or it could be mostly smooth singletrack, favouring the HT.

    But you also have to consider that if both bikes cost say £1k, then the hardtail is going to be pretty much fully kitted in high end components, while the full sus is pretty budget. If you have a limitless budget, things will start to get even closer.
    Giant Anthem X
    Cube Ltd Race
  • Daz555Daz555 Posts: 3,976
    It does not matter if it is HT or suss. What matters is that the rider is wearing a helmet......... :wink:
    You only need two tools: WD40 and Duck Tape.
    If it doesn't move and should, use the WD40.
    If it shouldn't move and does, use the tape.
  • .blitz.blitz Posts: 6,197
    Enwezor wrote:
    For those who have a modern full-suss, is it better at going uphill as well as downhill?
    Luckily I have a hardtail, a short travel FS and a long travel FS. On short climbs, the hardtail will bury the other two but the FS bikes win on long, relentless climbs.
  • zero303zero303 Posts: 1,162
    As all have said, depends on the terrain of the climb.

    CwmCarn is full-suss hands down will be quicker to the top as it's just so dam technical - something like Whites level is debatable (HT would be technically quicker but by the time I get up top might have appreciated the suss) while the other Afan trails (Penhydd and the Wall) will be much faster on a HT as they're mostly fireroad.
  • dave_hilldave_hill Posts: 3,877
    Enwezor wrote:
    There is a debate raging in the office as to which type of mtb is better for going uphill during xc style riding
    I ride a hardtail but I have been told by many people that a full-suss is not only better at going downhill but also uphill.
    I have only demoed a full-suss for 20 minutes so can't tell.
    For those who have a modern full-suss, is it better at going uphill as well as downhill?
    Also, why do xc-racers like Julien Absalon ride a hardtail?

    Neither is better. It all depends on the rider.

    As far as Absalon is concerned, it's quite likely that he isn't actually human, so it doesn't count :shock: !
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  • Steve_b77Steve_b77 Posts: 1,680
    As Dave says.

    A skilled rider on a HT will out climb a lesser skilled rider on a FS if they have the same fitness level.

    Bit of an open ended questions to be honest.

    I knwo that after riding a HT all winter (since September) I've become a much better rider, really thinking about what I'm doing and developing skills to get over stuff rather than bomb through it.

    Can't wait to ride the FS properly again as I know I'll be much faster, especially on the descents
  • supersonicsupersonic Posts: 82,708 Lives Here
    Depends on the rider, terrain, the bike, the gear you are in!

    Not all full sussers behave the same when climbing, with differing amounts of anti squat.
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  • FSR_XCFSR_XC Posts: 2,258
    Enwezor wrote:
    If I went for a 3 hour-type duration xc ride in the South Downs on a fairly light hardtail and then again on a fairly light full-suss - would I finish quicker on the full suss or the hardtail?

    Erm, it would take you 3 hours. :?
    Stumpjumper FSR 09/10 Pro Carbon, Genesis Vapour CX20 ('17)Carbon, Rose Xeon CW3000 '14, Raleigh R50

    http://www.visiontrack.com
  • EnwezorEnwezor Posts: 124
    FSR_XC wrote:
    Enwezor wrote:
    If I went for a 3 hour-type duration xc ride in the South Downs on a fairly light hardtail and then again on a fairly light full-suss - would I finish quicker on the full suss or the hardtail?

    Erm, it would take you 3 hours. :?

    Yes, cunningly I used the words "3 hour-type" meaning a pretty long-ride not tied to an exact time. Given a XC ride length of that type of duration, would I be back quicker on the full-suss or hardtail.
    yes, I should have been clearer - was pretty poor English!
  • supersonicsupersonic Posts: 82,708 Lives Here
    Depends on your skill and fitness. A good rider may well be faster on the HT. A slower novice may find the FS better.

    There is no definite answer.
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    VOODOO CANZO

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  • Daz555Daz555 Posts: 3,976
    I have a proposal.

    Lets all chip in to buy me 10 grands worth of HT and then chip in another 10 for a sweet full susser.

    I'll post back in a few days with my findings........... :D
    You only need two tools: WD40 and Duck Tape.
    If it doesn't move and should, use the WD40.
    If it shouldn't move and does, use the tape.
  • FSR_XCFSR_XC Posts: 2,258
    How much travel on the full sus?







    More seriously - until recently most 'pro' xc riders used HT. However stuff like the Spesh Epic have meant FS can be a quicker xc bike.

    If you are looking at spending £1k on a bike, the chances are the HT will be quicker. Spend £2k+ then it'll probably be the FS. Over 120mm travel and the HT will probably still have the advantage though.
    Stumpjumper FSR 09/10 Pro Carbon, Genesis Vapour CX20 ('17)Carbon, Rose Xeon CW3000 '14, Raleigh R50

    http://www.visiontrack.com
  • supersonicsupersonic Posts: 82,708 Lives Here
    can is the operative word there.

    Just a thought.... If FSR was so good, neutral, bob free and totally unaffected by chain forces, as they claim, why a lockout or Brain?!

    ;-)
    GT ZASKAR CARBON TEAM

    VOODOO CANZO

    Come and see me at https://www.facebook.com/biketyke/
  • NorthwindNorthwind Posts: 14,675
    I used to think climbing was all about weight, because the full sussers I'd ridden were all, well, s**t. :roll: Activator 2 ftw! But just lately I've had that totally turned around, on a nice surface with adquate grip I'd sooner be on my hardtail but for sketchier, slippier climbing my mate's full suss (a Santa Cruz of some sort) just digs in, it's got miles more traction. Impressive. Takes its toll on the old legs though...
    Uncompromising extremist
  • xtreemxtreem Posts: 2,965
    Title wrote:
    Hardtail or Full-suss - which is better for going up hill?
    Neither, ski lift.
    NS Bikes Eccentric Alu custom - 2016
  • RichMTBRichMTB Posts: 599
    Far to many variables to come up with a definitive answer.

    Look at two examples of bike with the same name.

    Stumpy hardtail vs Stumpy full sus up a fireroad - Hardtail wins

    Stumpy hardtail vs Stumpy full sus up a rough singletrack - Full-sus wins

    Or how about Giant anthem vs Orange Sub Zero (or smilar) Full-sus wins every time

    Now try Scott Scale vs Specialized Enduro, Hardtail would win every time
    Step in to my hut! - Stumpy Jumpy Pacey
  • Banned!Banned! Posts: 34
    Hardtail or Full-suss - which is better for going up hill?

    your mum.
  • WhytepeakWhytepeak Posts: 2,616
    If you keep your pedalling smooth and your legs loose, then the traction of a hardtail will be just as much as the full susser, your legs have more travel than any suspension you can buy - for xc at least.
    Now that we are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak and not to please ourselves. ROMANS 15:1
  • EnwezorEnwezor Posts: 124
    Well, nice to hear the varying views.
    One thing I can add is that a 2009 Scott Spark 20 is a hell of a lot faster than my 2003 Rockhopper.

    My local bike shop lent me a 2009 Scott Spark 20 and taking it on a usual ride around the South Downs (1hr30 normal), it was at least 15 minutes faster. Frankly, I couldn't believe how much faster it was. I describe as being able to pedal for most of it in the big-ring rather than the middle ring.

    Part of this I guess was down to it being a full-suss and part of it being down to it weighing about 11kg. I didn't think there would be such a big difference between it and my old bike (which I have spent money on - new forks, brakes, etc.)

    I am trying a Giant Anthem on Wednesday which is even lighter but for me, a light full-suss cross country is a big leap forward - it almost feels like cheating!
    :D
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