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Will Cav surpass Boardman's 41 pro stage wins this season?

edited February 2009 in Pro race
http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/The ... 53563.html

a list of the all time british stage winners on the continent. Cav currently has 28 wins, in third, just 3 behind Malcom Elliot, and 13 behind 13 behind arguably one of the best ever time trialists, Chirs Boardman. if last seasons form of 17 wins is anything to go on, will Cav surpass Boardman's record?

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  • finchyfinchy Posts: 6,889
    http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/The_alltime_list_of_British_pro_winners_article_253563.html

    a list of the all time british stage winners on the continent. Cav currently has 28 wins, in third, just 3 behind Malcom Elliot, and 13 behind 13 behind arguably one of the best ever time trialists, Chirs Boardman. if last seasons form of 17 wins is anything to go on, will Cav surpass Boardman's record?

    I don't think that he'll bother to go for some of the smaller races, having read a couple of interviews. So maybe he'll get more Giro/Tour stages and aim for his first classic, but not get quite as many victories.
  • Cav will win about 250 times in his career, if you count his espoir wins.

    Truly remarkable speed.

    Has more talent in his little finger than Mcewen. Lets hope Stapleton does not make him do media training, as his current persona for the media is killer. Just a simple kid who likes a curry on Friday night in Manx, dont take it out of him.
  • DaveyLDaveyL Posts: 5,167
    He also loves a game of speed chess apparently. I'd hate to see himwhen he loses. Probably a bit like this:

    http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=M9k5oBgaZGI
    Le Blaireau (1)
  • nick hansonnick hanson Posts: 1,655
    Cav will win about 250 times in his career, if you count his espoir wins.

    Truly remarkable speed.

    Has more talent in his little finger than Mcewen. Lets hope Stapleton does not make him do media training, as his current persona for the media is killer. Just a simple kid who likes a curry on Friday night in Manx, dont take it out of him.
    Fair comment,apart from being a simple kid,more like totally honest,& telling it like it is
    so many cols,so little time!
  • well, simple meant "unadorned by airs nor graces":. What you see is what you get.

    Simple = dumb or retarded. Nope. never inferred that. It was a compliment.

    Don't think he is "totally honest" in all facets. He still plays the game. But in terms of being great copy, 5 seconds after a sprint, he is brilliant copy. I hope he stops doing the unctuous "my team, my team, my team". One thanks will do, then cut into the braggadocio.

    He is best when he has lost and has some vitriol to throw, or even won. Like the day he won in either de Panne or Benelux or Belgium. He got stuck into Kenny Robert Van Hummel after winning. Funny stuff.

    They guy is no einstein, but he is a genius on the bike.
  • Dave_1Dave_1 Posts: 9,512
    it is not wins wins wins...but what they won...this is the crieria...quality not quantity.
  • no, its both.

    Both the number, and the quality.

    If you look at his record, it shows he may be able to win longer monument classics also.

    2006 Commonwealths as a 21 yo. Hangs with the group. Won the scratch.

    2006 Worlds on a bumpy parcours for u23, comes in behind Ciolek 5 man group.

    I think San Remo, Flanders, Roubaix, are not out of his reach in the next 10 years. I think he will win Gent in the next 3 years.
  • Dave_1Dave_1 Posts: 9,512
    no, its both.

    Both the number, and the quality.

    If you look at his record, it shows he may be able to win longer monument classics also.

    2006 Commonwealths as a 21 yo. Hangs with the group. Won the scratch.

    2006 Worlds on a bumpy parcours for u23, comes in behind Ciolek 5 man group.

    I think San Remo, Flanders, Roubaix, are not out of his reach in the next 10 years. I think he will win Gent in the next 3 years.

    draw the line somewhere then.GT GC placings, Mountain stages and long TTs at GTs,GC at GT prep stage races, placings in mounment classics, World RR champs, Olympic RR champs...that way people like Hammond and Yates don't get forgotten either...

    This cycling weekly wins league is not the only way to measure ...the all time league comparing riders from dfferent eras is more meaningful and respectful to Britain's best of past and present
  • stagehopperstagehopper Posts: 1,593
    Of course Nicole Cooke is probably past the half century by now ....
  • Tom ButcherTom Butcher Posts: 7,137
    Quality far outweighs quantity when it comes to judging who was the greatest - still an interesting table though.

    it's a hard life if you don't weaken.
  • I never made a comment on judgement.

    Someone said he was going to shift his focus.

    I beg to differ. Cav is greedy, and he will win all he can, and perhaps gift a victory to Renshaw or Greipel again.

    Cav is a sprinter. Most purist will not rate Cipollini or Petacchi, but they will rate Zabel ahead of them. Mcewen gets short shrift also.

    If Cav is to create a legacy, he will need to win atleast one of San Remo, Flanders, and Roubaix.

    As is, he is probably going to be the greatest road sprinter ever.
  • KléberKléber Posts: 6,842
    I agree Dave. Any list that places Robert Millar at the top is going to be correct. He's stood on the podium of the Tour de France on the Champs Elysees, nothing else compares.
  • DaveyLDaveyL Posts: 5,167
    It's my understanding from the Lance threads that being on the TdF podium isn't that big a deal :D
    Le Blaireau (1)
  • Its only taken 25 years to recognise Robert as our greatest cyclist.Still all good things come to they who wait.
    It won't be long before Cav. moves up the table.
    Makes for good debate :lol:
  • Pardon the pun but can we ever compare a sprinter with a climber on a level playing field?

    Cav's palmares is expanding rapidly. He is able to take successive stage wins in grand tours. Climbers can't have the same strike rate. Would you say that there is a climb to sprint victory ratio?
    @JaunePeril

    Winner of the Bike Radar Pro Race Wiggins Hour Prediction Competition
  • eheh Posts: 4,854
    On pure wins I expect Cav to be to UK rider by a long way when he decides to call it a day.

    I notice Wiggins is so far down the list I thought initally that they'd left him off!!!
  • i think cav can win the milan san remo this year.When was the last time a british rider won a spring classic.I watched Sean Kelly win a few,it would almost give me as much pleasure to see cav win a spring classic as i an Irish
  • eh wrote:
    On pure wins I expect Cav to be to UK rider by a long way when he decides to call it a day.

    I notice Wiggins is so far down the list I thought initally that they'd left him off!!!

    what has Wiggins won? Two l'Avenir stages. Pardon the French, but he ain't a roadie's left censored .

    Wiggins is a good trackie. But he made hay on Mcgee trying to be a GT classification rider, and losing all his power. Mcgee would have wipped Wiggins but if they were mano a mano with equivalent work put in on the boards.

    I don't think anyone is rating Cav over GT riders, and over classics men. Cav will always be paid the most for his wins, but, you gotta come to the line solo, and I don't mean just five lengths ahead in a bunch kick.

    Cav is, and probably will be, the best sprinter ever, when his career wraps up. He is prodigious.

    That said, there will be a test this year. The fastest guys in the peloton are now Chicchi, Ciolek, and Boonen.

    Last yeah, he only had to worry about Chicchi. I cannot even remember if Chicchi was at the Tour.

    Boonen and Ciolek could pose some problems in the bunch kicks for Cav. Mana a mano, from 200 metres, Cav is probably 2 lengths faster than them, but bunch kicks ain't drag races from 200 metres.
  • finchyfinchy Posts: 6,889

    what has Wiggins won? Two l'Avenir stages. Pardon the French, but he ain't a roadie's left censored .

    Wiggins is a good trackie. But he made hay on Mcgee trying to be a GT classification rider, and losing all his power. Mcgee would have wipped Wiggins but if they were mano a mano with equivalent work put in on the boards.

    Wiggins has also won the Dauphine Libere prologue against decent opposition. Two top 5 Tour TT places isn't bad either - especially when you consider that in one of them, he was beaten by Vino and another 2 Astana boys.

    What was McGee's best time in the 4k pursuit?
  • KléberKléber Posts: 6,842
    Wiggins is a very good rider on the road, it's just he's put a lot of his effort into track cycling. Had he changed focus a bit, he might have a bit more.

    We'll see about Cavendish, he seems exceptionally good but to the point where it's predictable, the others will work out plans to beat him, whether queuing for his wheel. But it's got to the point where if there is a bunch sprint, some will hold an inquisition if Cavendish doesn't come up trumps. But remember there are many other good riders, indeed Boonen is a great rider, he is capable of winning the best bunch sprints but can also shred the legs of others on the Kemmelberg or drop the hardest riders on the cobbled roads to Paris - Roubaix, he is much more than a sprinter.
  • finchyfinchy Posts: 6,889
    i think cav can win the milan san remo this year.When was the last time a british rider won a spring classic.I watched Sean Kelly win a few,it would almost give me as much pleasure to see cav win a spring classic as i an Irish

    Barry Hoban won Ghent Wevelgem (1974), Tom Simpson won Flanders (1961) and San Remo (1964)
  • Dave_1Dave_1 Posts: 9,512
    putting together all the sprinters stages at the grand tours..approx 40 stage opportunities for sprinters...out of near 60 stages only maybe 12 summit finishes-high presitge wins, 6 long TTs of high presitge...therefore...I rate a win on either summit stage, especially Luz, Alpe Du'Huez, a Ventoux, Cavodonga, Angliru, Mortirilo type stage as worth 3 , 4 flat stage wins...the presitge of summit finishes and TTs are the equal of classics like Liege to me, you ve to rate the winners that highly, they are so hard to win...sprinters have potential wins every week for 6 months of the year...the best 20 cyclists in the world have to produce it all on a small number of day...there are huge waits till the next grand tour...therefore much higher pressure and worthy of extra honour...whatsmore sprinters follow wheels till 200m...not do man to man battle over cols after col or on the final col...more of an individual win in the mountains or TTs
  • finchyfinchy Posts: 6,889
    Dave_1 wrote:
    putting together all the sprinters stages at the grand tours..approx 40 stage opportunities for sprinters...out of near 60 stages only maybe 12 summit finishes-high presitge wins, 6 long TTs of high presitge...therefore...I rate a win on either summit stage, especially Luz, Alpe Du'Huez, a Ventoux, Cavodonga, Angliru, Mortirilo type stage as worth 3 , 4 flat stage wins...the presitge of summit finishes and TTs are the equal of classics like Liege to me, you ve to rate the winners that highly, they are so hard to win...sprinters have potential wins every week for 6 months of the year...the best 20 cyclists in the world have to produce it all on a small number of day...there are huge waits till the next grand tour...therefore much higher pressure and worthy of extra honour...whatsmore sprinters follow wheels till 200m...not do man to man battle over cols after col or on the final col...more of an individual win in the mountains or TTs

    You are, of course, correct about the opportunities being more numerous for sprinters in grand tours, but I think that there are more opportunities for lesser climbers to go for a win when all of the big guns are calling a truce, and letting a break go - see for example Gerrans' win in the Tour last year.

    In Tour mass sprints on the other hand, every day is a battle, and it tends to be the very top sprinters who take the prizes.

    Mind you, none of this actually adds anything to the discussion, don't know why I bothered typing it all. :roll: I think I'll go and get on my bike and do some training instead.

    Speaking of which, I think that this cycling forum really could do with a "tired" emoticon.
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