Benefits of LAs visit to Australia

dave_1

Aussie PM there at TDU, some specific budget commitments given by govt from what I read for cancer...let us know from down under if you post here as it is interesting to see what the benefits -if any- there are of LAs comebac

Kléber

Governments can have a habit of announcing intended ideas at PR events to look good. If they are new budget commitments, then that's good, great news. This is why I think "Lance Armstrong The Myth" is a very powerful story and it can do plenty of good, even my view is that it's a fairy tale built on a heap of you-know-what and he did just what every other rider did.

Still, cancer care is pretty reasonable in Australia, I would have preferred to see him do the Amissa Bongo last week and then get ready for Langkawi, where people suffer a lot more and can't get such access to healthcare.

dave_1

Kléber wrote:

Governments can have a habit of announcing intended ideas at PR events to look good. If they are new budget commitments, then that's good, great news. This is why I think "Lance Armstrong The Myth" is a very powerful story and it can do plenty of good, even my view is that it's a fairy tale built on a heap of you-know-what and he did just what every other rider did.

Still, cancer care is pretty reasonable in Australia, I would have preferred to see him do the Amissa Bongo last week and then get ready for Langkawi, where people suffer a lot more and can't get such access to healthcare.

true...the developing world is where he should be spreading the message not Oz...

Martin Van Nostrand

I see the following benefits:

1. Increased sales of SRAM, part owned by Armstrong.
2. The establishment of the concept that he is a "clean" rider.
3. One more appearance before LA announces his entry into US politics, funded by livestrong, which requires money from 1, and data from 2.

It's hard to imagine in 2009, that even in the developing world, no one has heard, or understands the importance of cancer.

According to charitywatch.org, livestrong has an unusually high overhead costs on its fundraising. A lot of money raised is used to promote livestrong, more than most charities.

rockmount

You guys should get out more ... ride your bike ... if you have one !!

Kléber

rockmount wrote:

You guys should get out more ... ride your bike ... if you have one !!

3 hours this afternoon. And you?

dennisn

rockmount wrote:

You guys should get out more ... ride your bike ... if you have one !!

I said I wasn't going to post on these "Lance" threads, but I'm with you, "......ride your bike....if you have one." Way too much hate, anger, and envy with most of these guys.

Dennis Noward

iainf72

dennisn wrote:

I said I wasn't going to post on these "Lance" threads, but I'm with you, "......ride your bike....if you have one." Way too much hate, anger, and envy with most of these guys.

Who exhibits those 3 then?

moray_gub

iainf72 wrote:

dennisn wrote:

I said I wasn't going to post on these "Lance" threads, but I'm with you, "......ride your bike....if you have one." Way too much hate, anger, and envy with most of these guys.

Who exhibits those 3 then?

You would be better saying who doesnt exhibit those three traits when it comes to Lance i will start with one person

ME

MG

dennisn

Moray Gub wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

dennisn wrote:

I said I wasn't going to post on these "Lance" threads, but I'm with you, "......ride your bike....if you have one." Way too much hate, anger, and envy with most of these guys.

Who exhibits those 3 then?

You would be better saying who doesnt exhibit those three traits when it comes to Lance i will start with one person

ME

MG

Good point. Put me down as one who doesn't. Anyone else?

Dennis Noward

rockmount

dennisn wrote:

Moray Gub wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

dennisn wrote:

I said I wasn't going to post on these "Lance" threads, but I'm with you, "......ride your bike....if you have one." Way too much hate, anger, and envy with most of these guys.

Who exhibits those 3 then?

You would be better saying who doesnt exhibit those three traits when it comes to Lance i will start with one person

ME

MG

Good point. Put me down as one who doesn't. Anyone else?

Dennis Noward

Me too !

Kléber

No anger or hate, just a bit of annoyance that he's slipped through the next. But I have to admit a touch of envy, my palmares would be enhanced by 7 Tour wins and a framed rainbow jersey.

iainf72

Moray Gub wrote:

You would be better saying who doesnt exhibit those three traits when it comes to Lance i will start with one person

ME

Bully for you.

I don't hate the man, nor am I envious (I reserve envy for David Lynch, William S Boroughs and Aphex Twin). I get slightly angry but not so much it keeps me up at night.

Disclaimer : You can't take me seriously as I don't really cycle anymore. All my attempts amount to nothing and I might do 30 minutes now and then.

rockmount

My credentials ....

I was born in 1960. I grew up with tales of Eddy Merckx, Freddy Maertens et al. My mate and I used to go to the LBS and ask when they expected the new Super Record gear in (right rascals we were-taking the p*ss). I came to own a Gios Torino replica a la Roger de Vlaemink, just prior to finding a new interest altogether (not hard to work that one out). In the last few years I wanted to start trying to get a bit fitter, bought a mountain bike and started commuting to work (16 mile round trip, I try to do every day, rain hail or shine). I missed the LA years, due to lack of interest at the time, but some time ago discovered his books, and since watched the videos etc. etc. I have to admit to being totally inspired by his story, so much so, that I now own a Dura Ace equipped carbon fibre framed machine in addition to an entry level trek, and a couple of mountain bikes. I find it rather disappointing to read the anti Lance rhetoric perpetuated by a small number of posters on this, and other sites. I don't believe that anything LA, or anyone else for that matter could say or do would satisfy the detractors .. and quite frankly, that's a shame.

PS
The suggestion that LA's charity work is in the interest of self promotion is quite scandalous !

iainf72

rockmount wrote:

I don't believe that anything LA, or anyone else for that matter could say or do would satisfy the detractors .. and quite frankly, that's a shame.

But what about when what he says doesn't match what he does?

Anyway, I'm an equal opportunity guy - Wait til Columbia or Bob Stapleton get me started

iainf72

rockmount wrote:

The suggestion that LA's charity work is in the interest of self promotion is quite scandalous !

From Charitywatch

The Lance Armstrong Foundation (LAF), founded by the champion bicyclist and cancer survivor of the same name, is celebrating its 10-year anniversary this year. Wouldn’t you think a charity that receives massive publicity for having one of the most popular causes and most admired celebrities as the face of the organization would be able to easily raise lots of money? Unfortunately this is not the case. LAF spent as much as $45 to raise each $100, exceeding AIP’s 35% recommended fundraising ceiling by a significant margin. While LAF had difficulty raising contributions efficiently, it did prove to be a savvy merchandise marketer. LAF sold over $24 million in merchandise, including the ubiquitous yellow “LIVESTRONG” wristband, as well as clothing, sports gear and even dog leashes. Yet after spending $10 million in solicitation costs, the group brought in only $22 million in contributions, according to AIP’s analysis of LAF’s 2005 financial statements.

Perhaps they've improved in recent years, I don't know? I do know some people in the US have had very good help from them.

It would be interesting to know where the big rumoured start fee is going. If it's going to charity, which one?

DaveyL

dennisn wrote:

rockmount wrote:

You guys should get out more ... ride your bike ... if you have one !!

I said I wasn't going to post on these "Lance" threads, but I'm with you, "......ride your bike....if you have one." Way too much hate, anger, and envy with most of these guys.

Dennis Noward

I'm filled with anger, hate and envy. But not towards Lance, just in general.

dennisn

rockmount wrote:

My credentials ....

I was born in 1960. I grew up with tales of Eddy Merckx, Freddy Maertens et al. My mate and I used to go to the LBS and ask when they expected the new Super Record gear in (right rascals we were-taking the p*ss). I came to own a Gios Torino replica a la Roger de Vlaemink, just prior to finding a new interest altogether (not hard to work that one out). In the last few years I wanted to start trying to get a bit fitter, bought a mountain bike and started commuting to work (16 mile round trip, I try to do every day, rain hail or shine). I missed the LA years, due to lack of interest at the time, but some time ago discovered his books, and since watched the videos etc. etc. I have to admit to being totally inspired by his story, so much so, that I now own a Dura Ace equipped carbon fibre framed machine in addition to an entry level trek, and a couple of mountain bikes. I find it rather disappointing to read the anti Lance rhetoric perpetuated by a small number of posters on this, and other sites. I don't believe that anything LA, or anyone else for that matter could say or do would satisfy the detractors .. and quite frankly, that's a shame.

PS
The suggestion that LA's charity work is in the interest of self promotion is quite scandalous !

+1, but trust me you can't win this. These guys see nothing but the negative and / or their version of it. They are obsessed with Lance and know everything about him or at least
think they do. I agree that "... quite frankly that's a shame". Too bad for them but you still won't win this argument or hate mongering or whatever it is. Signing off again. Hopefully never to return, but I seem to have a bad record of breaking my promises.

Dennis Noward

innocenti

I think the best that can be said of LA and his treatment of those who cross him whether in the media or the peleton, is that he is not a sportsman or a gentleman. He thinks he is bigger than any event he enters (and he is probably right) and that is not good for cycling.

Kléber

iainf72 wrote:

Anyway, I'm an equal opportunity guy - Wait til Columbia or Bob Stapleton get me started

Quite. I've nothing against Armstrong in particular, I'll frown anyone who hires Michele Ferrari. Sorry if that's mean but I don't like doping in sport, it corrupts the results and damages people's health.

richard wants a baum

Why is it that the posters that ask questions about Lance are haters? Most of the defenders of Lance ( i wont say fanboys cos thats unfair name calling) seem to fall back on the well his never tested positive why dont you just leave it at that line which is fine, but its hardly surprising that some of us do question his 7 tour wins when you see the podiums for those 7 wins. Alot of those riders never tested positive either put we know they were cheaters. Im not 100% convinced either way but i do think that having a debate about him and doping is a good thing. comments like

You guys should get out more ... ride your bike ... if you have one !!

Way too much hate, anger, and envy with most of these guys.

are unwarranted and unfair as Dennis has sprouted time and again none of you know any of the posters on this forum and would have no idea as to the regularity of their rides or if they are indeed filled with Hate Anger and envy. Just because some has a difference of opion to you doesnt mean the have to be silent if you dont like the debate dont read it pretty simple.

DavMartinR

richard wants a baum wrote:

Why is it that the posters that ask questions about Lance are haters? Most of the defenders of Lance ( i wont say fanboys cos thats unfair name calling) seem to fall back on the well his never tested positive why dont you just leave it at that line which is fine, but its hardly surprising that some of us do question his 7 tour wins when you see the podiums for those 7 wins. Alot of those riders never tested positive either put we know they were cheaters. Im not 100% convinced either way but i do think that having a debate about him and doping is a good thing. comments like

You guys should get out more ... ride your bike ... if you have one !!

Way too much hate, anger, and envy with most of these guys.

are unwarranted and unfair as Dennis has sprouted time and again none of you know any of the posters on this forum and would have no idea as to the regularity of their rides or if they are indeed filled with Hate Anger and envy. Just because some has a difference of opion to you doesnt mean the have to be silent if you dont like the debate dont read it pretty simple.

+1

What is it with this "you should get on you bike more? And get a life?" As if it's the untimate slap down. As if everybody else on the forum is a sad puppy!! And they wouldn't waste there time on a forum :?: :?:

micron

I don't envy cheats, that is a fact - and another +1 on the above couple of posts. The debate on the 'myth' is an important one - since it's based on a lie can we accept that good deeds can be done by ugly people? After all (sticks head above parapet) Hitler was an animal lover and a vegetarian (ducks and retires swiftly and hopes one and all appreciate sarcasm)

moray_gub

richard wants a baum wrote:

Why is it that the posters that ask questions about Lance are haters? Most of the defenders of Lance ( i wont say fanboys cos thats unfair name calling) seem to fall back on the well his never tested positive why dont you just leave it at that line which is fine, but its hardly surprising that some of us do question his 7 tour wins when you see the podiums for those 7 wins. Alot of those riders never tested positive either put we know they were cheaters. Im not 100% convinced either way but i do think that having a debate about him and doping is a good thing. comments like

You guys should get out more ... ride your bike ... if you have one !!

Way too much hate, anger, and envy with most of these guys.

are unwarranted and unfair as Dennis has sprouted time and again none of you know any of the posters on this forum and would have no idea as to the regularity of their rides or if they are indeed filled with Hate Anger and envy. Just because some has a difference of opion to you doesnt mean the have to be silent if you dont like the debate dont read it pretty simple.

I think its the "i know best" arrogant kinda attitude that is displayed by a lot LA detractors thats the main problem. The i know best attitude is very prevalent amongst a few posters in this thread in fact one even went as far as implying that posters with a high post count were somehow more knowledgebale !

MG

afx237vi

micron wrote:

I don't envy cheats, that is a fact - and another +1 on the above couple of posts. The debate on the 'myth' is an important one - since it's based on a lie can we accept that good deeds can be done by ugly people? After all (sticks head above parapet) Hitler was an animal lover and a vegetarian (ducks and retires swiftly and hopes one and all appreciate sarcasm)

Thank god, someone has Godwinned the thread.

*makes mental note to mention Hitler every time a LA thread crops up*

richard wants a baum

Moray Gub

I think its the "i know best" arrogant kinda attitude that is displayed by a lot LA detractors thats the main problem. The i know best attitude is very prevalent amongst a few posters in this thread in fact one even went as far as implying that posters with a high post count were somehow more knowledgebale !

MG

While i agree a few may have this attitude i dont think its prevelant i think alot of the LA defenders just get there back up when they are bombarded with links and quotes. But ive noticed that every time someone actually puts a question mark over LA that they are automatically considered to be a fat/lazy bloke that sits on the computer all day.

Answering Daves question its been great for LA, tonns of publicity and some of its even been about cancer :shock: Kevin Rudd (our PM) is a great one for making statements when theres a croud of friendly media and a celebrity, i wouldnt read a hell of alot into it. The Local media have fawned all over Lance to the extent that a Local ex Sports star come Radio commentator slash Columinist it the local rag has written an article tell Adelaide to "Grow up" and stop the Lance Lovefest.

Trev36

iainf72 wrote:

It would be interesting to know where the big rumoured start fee is going. If it's going to charity, which one?

According to Armstrong it goes into his own pocket.
(quoted from http://au.sports.yahoo.com/news/article/-/5267086/relaxed-armstrong-says-nervous

The Texan also confirmed he had received an appearance fee for his visit, but he stressed it was not to race.

He also said he would not donate the fee, rumoured to be $A1 million, to his Lance Armstrong Foundation, a cancer charity.

"This is not just me showing up to a bike race and racing," he said.

"There's other things involved, it's not simply showing up at a bike race and being paid to race a bike.

"I'm not being paid to race - is there a fee for other things? Yes - but that's not anything different for the last (few) years."

Armstrong said he had been on the public speaking circuit for the last few years and compared the fee to what he would receive for those engagements.

dave_1

iainf72 wrote:

Moray Gub wrote:

You would be better saying who doesnt exhibit those three traits when it comes to Lance i will start with one person

ME

Bully for you.

I don't hate the man, nor am I envious (I reserve envy for David Lynch, William S Boroughs and Aphex Twin). I get slightly angry but not so much it keeps me up at night.

Disclaimer : You can't take me seriously as I don't really cycle anymore. All my attempts amount to nothing and I might do 30 minutes now and then.

s

to be fair to you Iain, didn't you get forced into retirement from cycling due to Beloki style injury...or a car?..



re LA....time to at least be neutral ...he is doing everything he can..he can't get anymore people to test him than he has now...time to consider unfairness of him being forced to ride against guys who only pee for the testers once a week or even once every 2 week...they have more options than someone who is guaranteed a test within 3-4 days all year

Kléber

Moray Gub wrote:

in fact one even went as far as implying that posters with a high post count were somehow more knowledgebale !

This is me your referring to. I've twice tried to explain you misunderstood what I was trying to say. I was just making a light hearted point about a few newcomers on here at one moment who were big fans of Lance and contrasting it to the longer-term members on here. It's often the case that people find the Armstrong tale attractive but by the time they've been on this forum for a year or two they turn a bit more cynical. It sort of goes like this:

Worship of Lance ("USA! USA!") > denial ("he never tested positive", "a gust of wind blew him onto Simeoni's wheel") > gentle scepticism ("maybe he shouldn't have worked with Ferrari") > justification ("looks like every pro was at it") > cynicism ("damn, I got hoodwinked")!

iainf72

Trev36 wrote:

He also said he would not donate the fee, rumoured to be $A1 million, to his Lance Armstrong Foundation, a cancer charity.

"This is not just me showing up to a bike race and racing," he said.

"There's other things involved, it's not simply showing up at a bike race and being paid to race a bike.

"I'm not being paid to race - is there a fee for other things? Yes - but that's not anything different for the last (few) years."

Armstrong said he had been on the public speaking circuit for the last few years and compared the fee to what he would receive for those engagements.

I'm sorry but if the organisers are paying a fee, it' for him to turn up and race. There's nothing wrong with being paid a big start fee but don't a) pretend you're not doing this for monetary gain and b) pretend you're getting paid for something other than riding the race.

iainf72

This is worth a read

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/The ... 75526.html