Phonetic Wales

landranger
landranger Posts: 220
edited January 2009 in MTB general
Right, first off I'm not taking the pi*s.
I'd like to go to a few trail centres this year in Wales but don't want to make a cock of myself pronouncing their names! :oops: So fo-net-ic-ally (spelling the word how it would sound) how would I pronounce popular centres like:

Coed Llandegla
Nant yr Arian
Cwmcarn etc, etc.

Cheers :D
Sink the eight ball. Buy the lady a drink. And nobody knows my name.

Comments

  • Banned!
    Banned! Posts: 34
    Coed Llandegla = who's that english poofter?



    Nant yr Arian = shoot him boyo!


    Cwmcarn = yaki da!
  • Alex-nutsaboutbiking
    Alex-nutsaboutbiking Posts: 235
    its sorta hard to spell welsh fonetically as 'Ll' is hard to explain the noise you make and 'nh' is also a wierd one but im sure no one will mind if you say them wrong. when i moved to wales when i was 7 i had great difficulty learning welsh but people didnt mind when i made a mistake.

    also just to let you know cwm carn is just the same as saying cum carn (well close enough)
  • P-Jay
    P-Jay Posts: 1,478
    landranger wrote:
    Right, first off I'm not taking the pi*s.
    I'd like to go to a few trail centres this year in Wales but don't want to make a fool of myself pronouncing their names! :oops: So fo-net-ic-ally (spelling the word how it would sound) how would I pronounce popular centres like:

    Coed Llandegla
    Nant yr Arian
    Cwmcarn etc, etc.

    Cheers :D

    Coed is K-OI-ed.

    Ll is a sound that I don't know how to type in English and it's not used in English, kinda TH-lan and then deg-la.

    Nant-E-Arian (adrian without the D like it's typed)

    Cwmcarn is just cum-carn.

    This is incredibly hard to do in words, ha ha.
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  • supersonic
    supersonic Posts: 82,708
    Just as well they don't make Cwmcarn one of the Stanes - cwm stane haha
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  • landranger
    landranger Posts: 220
    I'm only asking cos I used to do alarms for the post office. You had to go to some really remote places to do resets, this was before sat navs took off. Some times when you asked directions, locals wouldn't speak to you if you got names wrong.

    I'm sure trail centres are used to it but it would be nice to pronounce it a bit right :P
    Sink the eight ball. Buy the lady a drink. And nobody knows my name.
  • Alex-nutsaboutbiking
    Alex-nutsaboutbiking Posts: 235
    lol just dont say that near a welsh rugby player as when they finaly work out what the joke is they wont be to pleased
  • Thewaylander
    Thewaylander Posts: 8,593
    MAte just say it how ever, and nice passer by like me will correct you if you say am i saying this roght :p
  • Thewaylander
    Thewaylander Posts: 8,593
    True, they are really proud of it, and protective as it has been lost in alot of places. so i find it doesn't hurt to be a bit respectful about trying to get it right
  • Belphegor
    Belphegor Posts: 154
    As I understand it, the double L like Llanelli is pronounced almost like a hard C, (like 'catch', not a soft C like 'cypher') but with a vague Scottish-esque clearing of the throat rasp to it. Imagine the hard C combined with the Scottish sounding "och" (as in Och Aye the Nooo, whatever that means).

    Llanelli become "Kccchlan-eth-li"... with those c's over emphasised for the example. If you just say Chlan-Deg-La pretty quickly I'm sure you'll get away with it :)
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  • supersonic
    supersonic Posts: 82,708
    It's Pwhelli I have difficulty pronouncing!

    We have some corking names oop here in Yorkshire too. Penistone, Wigtwizzle, Land of Nod...
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  • LordBanks
    LordBanks Posts: 358
    Just point at the map and talk LOUD and s.l.o.w.l.y.
  • GHill
    GHill Posts: 2,402
    Afan = A-Van (or close enough).

    TBH, most of the trail centres are pretty easy to get to and if you use the MBWales website you probably won't need to ask for directions.

    It might be worth noting that some places could be pronounced a little differently whether you're in north or south wales.
  • Stu 74
    Stu 74 Posts: 463
    I wouldn't worry about it too much, some of the locals don't even pronounce the names properly :? I would say that most of the people at North Wales trail centres are from England in any case!

    There is no easy way to describe how to pronounce 'Ll' or 'Ch' but you will not sound too bad if you just use L for 'Ll' and 'C' for Ch.

    So for Llandegla just say Landegla, for Penmachno jusy say Penmacno.

    Pronounce 'Coed' as 'Coyed' using one syllable (not 'Coy-ed'). Pronounce Y and Yr as 'Er'.

    For 'F' use 'V'. For 'Ff' use 'F'!

    In Welsh 'A' is always pronounced like the a in 'ha' and is never pronounced like the a in mate! Afan is not pronounced A-Van! :wink:


    Have fun!

    Stu
  • GHill
    GHill Posts: 2,402
    Stu 74 wrote:
    In Welsh 'A' is always pronounced like the a in 'ha' and is never pronounced like the a in mate! Afan is not pronounced A-Van! :wink:

    I think that's probably a difference in how we both pronounce A :wink: Sorry if I got it wrong phonetically for everyone else.

    I'm basing my pronunciation on what I heard on the local news in Cardiff, which I suppose has a high probability of being wrong! :lol:
  • stayhigh65
    stayhigh65 Posts: 611
    supersonic wrote:
    It's Pwhelli I have difficulty pronouncing!

    I went to Butlins there when I was 10 and 21 years later i still cant say it lol
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  • P-Jay
    P-Jay Posts: 1,478
    stayhigh65 wrote:
    supersonic wrote:
    It's Pwhelli I have difficulty pronouncing!

    I went to Butlins there when I was 10 and 21 years later i still cant say it lol


    Pilthwelly
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  • softlad
    softlad Posts: 3,513
    P-Jay wrote:
    stayhigh65 wrote:
    supersonic wrote:
    It's Pwhelli I have difficulty pronouncing!

    I went to Butlins there when I was 10 and 21 years later i still cant say it lol


    Pilthwelly

    you need to start by getting the Welsh spelling correct - Pwllheli. The closest 'english' pronunciation is going to be something like 'Puthelly' - with 'pu' pronounced as in 'push'...

    The easiest way to understand it is to hear it spoken. There are a few significant differences in how Welsh treats certain letters like 'w', 'f' or 'y' - plus there are combinations like 'Ff' or 'Ll'. 'Y' is possibly the hardest to grasp, because how it is pronounced depends a lot on whereabouts in a word it appears. At the start or in the middle of a word is is generally pronounced 'uh', while at the end of a word, it is generally pronounced 'ee' - which is the more conventional 'english' way...

    Lovely language though - wish I could speak it.. ;)
  • supersonic
    supersonic Posts: 82,708
    It was flattened by a storm the week after I went with school lol!
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  • s-worksenduro
    s-worksenduro Posts: 172
    Just as long as you don't end up in Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch, you should be alright!!
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  • P-Jay
    P-Jay Posts: 1,478
    softlad wrote:
    P-Jay wrote:
    stayhigh65 wrote:
    supersonic wrote:
    It's Pwhelli I have difficulty pronouncing!

    I went to Butlins there when I was 10 and 21 years later i still cant say it lol


    Pilthwelly

    you need to start by getting the Welsh spelling correct - Pwllheli. The closest 'english' pronunciation is going to be something like 'Puthelly' - with 'pu' pronounced as in 'push'...

    The easiest way to understand it is to hear it spoken. There are a few significant differences in how Welsh treats certain letters like 'w', 'f' or 'y' - plus there are combinations like 'Ff' or 'Ll'. 'Y' is possibly the hardest to grasp, because how it is pronounced depends a lot on whereabouts in a word it appears. At the start or in the middle of a word is is generally pronounced 'uh', while at the end of a word, it is generally pronounced 'ee' - which is the more conventional 'english' way...

    Lovely language though - wish I could speak it.. ;)

    That was my attempt at spelling it phonetically, ha ha. I'd say it Pillth-welly, but I'm from Cardiff and our Welsh is about as bad as it gets.
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  • softlad
    softlad Posts: 3,513
    P-Jay wrote:
    That was my attempt at spelling it phonetically, ha ha. I'd say it Pillth-welly, but I'm from Cardiff and our Welsh is about as bad as it gets.

    I thought Cardiff was in England.. ;)
  • Alex-nutsaboutbiking
    Alex-nutsaboutbiking Posts: 235
    Just as long as you don't end up in Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch, you should be alright!!

    oooh i can pronounce that (which sadly im proud of 8) )
  • ddraver
    ddraver Posts: 26,708
    Puth-ell-ee

    Playing Rugby there was...errm...interesting.... :wink:
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  • bluechair84
    bluechair84 Posts: 4,352
    Man and his wife are touring Wales and end up passing a sign for 'Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch', after much deliberation and argument they pull in at a gas station to ask how on Earth you pronounce where they are, so they pose the question to a waitress who roles her eyes and says slowly "Little Cheeef"

    Sorry...

    The translation for that name is fantastic, St Mary's church in the hollow of the white hazel near to the rapid whirlpool and the church of St Tysilio of the red cavet. It's as accurate as an OS map that name is...
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  • Belphegor
    Belphegor Posts: 154
    I read that Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch wasn't actually called that originally, it was just Llanfairpwllgwy (or something, it was a lot shorter anyway) but they renamed it specifically to revive a flagging tourism industry.
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