titanium forks, why not?

BigSpecs
BigSpecs Posts: 309
edited January 2009 in Workshop
This is something I have been wondering about for a while (and surely a post tailor made for Monty Dog?) Why is it that the major titanium bike manufacturers all spec carbon forks on their bikes? What makes titanium such a poor material for forks that no one will give it a go? (I understand that carbon is very good but it is also a very good as a frame material but titanium still gets a good look in for frames) Titanium is widely regarded as such a good material for frames, so why not forks?? Hmnnn.

Comments

  • markos1963
    markos1963 Posts: 3,724
    If titanium is such a good material why are some manufacturers using carbon rear ends?
    Norfolk, who nicked all the hills?

    http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3013/243 ... 8d.jpg?v=0
    http://img362.imageshack.us/my.php?imag ... 076tl5.jpg
    http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/3407 ... e001af.jpg
  • alfablue
    alfablue Posts: 8,497
    I am guessing that the costs of manufacturing tubes for forks, and their comparatively complex design would be high, given that Ti is hard to work with, whereas frames can use sets of standard tubes. There are some Ti forks available, I think XACD do them, for example. Now, I'll wait for Monty Dog for the proper answer...
  • prawny
    prawny Posts: 5,440
    I'm with alfablue on this one, you cant weld titanium with oxygen in the atmosphere can't remeber why but it cost's a fortune to make things from the stuff.

    The cost with carbon is mainly the raw material the fabrication is 'comparatively' easy, I still cant do it tho!
    Saracen Tenet 3 - 2015 - Dead - Replaced with a Hack Frame
    Voodoo Bizango - 2014 - Dead - Hit by a car
    Vitus Sentier VRS - 2017
  • de_sisti
    de_sisti Posts: 1,283
    alfablue wrote:
    There are some Ti forks available, I think XACD do them, for example.

    I had Ti forks supplied with the frame I bought from XACD. They're ok.


    maander.
  • cougie
    cougie Posts: 22,512
    http://www.backpackinglight.co.uk/product21.asp

    Bargain !
  • BigSpecs
    BigSpecs Posts: 309
    very good cougie, like your style :D
  • JonEdwards
    JonEdwards Posts: 452
    From memory, I think they end up being a bit too twangy, unless you put more material in them, atwhich point carbon is lighter.

    Certainly I remember the Kona Ti Project 2 forks being very sought after on MTBs because they were so comfortable.
  • cougie
    cougie Posts: 22,512
    Thank you !

    Yeah - I dont think they are stiff enough - forks are a bit different from a frame in shape.

    Raleigh did do Trimnell forks on their Ti MTBs. My wife has got one but its hard to compare it to a normal fork.
  • softlad
    softlad Posts: 3,513
    no experience of Ti forks myself, but I have often heard it said that the combination of a Ti fork AND a Ti frame results in ride & handling which is far too 'vague'..
  • de_sisti
    de_sisti Posts: 1,283
    softlad wrote:
    results in ride & handling which is far too 'vague'..

    Could you explain this? I've never understood the term.
  • cougie
    cougie Posts: 22,512
    Not as precise on corners? I've also heard 'noodly'.

    Does depend on the design though.
  • softlad
    softlad Posts: 3,513
    maander wrote:
    softlad wrote:
    results in ride & handling which is far too 'vague'..

    Could you explain this? I've never understood the term.

    I can't really explain it in any meaningful sense, because I am only repeating what I have heard others say. I suspect the Ti fork would offer a fair amount of flex, which would probably not give particularly good feedback in corners. But I really don't know....
  • Al_38
    Al_38 Posts: 277
    markos1963 wrote:
    If titanium is such a good material why are some manufacturers using carbon rear ends?

    Probably for a few reasons:

    1.) Marketing - people thing carbon-fibre is gods gift to cycling and so anything with carbon stays must be much better than the standard alloy ones

    2.) when you have 2 different metals in contact (i.e. the titanium aluminium joint or whatever - not elements in an alloy) then you set up a possible electrochemical reaction. In the presence of a liquid that conducts (water, salty water is better) then the metals will corrode much faster than they would if they were on there own. (it is for this reason you have to be careful with an aluminium seatpost in a steel frame they corrode and then get stuck together).

    3.) Joining them might be a complete pain in the bum. Carbon can be glued to metal but to join Ti and Al probably means they have to be welded and they will have different thermal expansion rates so the welds could quite easily crack as they cool.
  • Monty Dog
    Monty Dog Posts: 20,614
    Been away for a for few days - work sometimes gets in the way of things! I've got some to forks too on my Xacd ti bike and they are brilliant on that bike because they are resilient and tough - it takes a while to get used to seeing a fork flexing so much on the rough stuff. The downside is that they simply aren't stiff enough for a fast road bike - particularly now that carbon forks are so cheap. You could also buy some Russian ti forks a few years ago, but at over £200, they were pricey with little/no performance advantage - manipulating and fabricating titanium to get an effective shape is expensive and requires specialist tooling whereas carbon only requires cheap aluminium moulds. Re the above post - there is absolutely no reason why you'd want to fabricate titanium with aluminium and carbon and ti has less of an electrochemical issue that with aluminium and carbon - Mizuno used to make a carbon ti fork a few years ago but it was pricey. My ti / carbon Colnago remains firmly bonded after 8 years.
    Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..
  • BigSpecs
    BigSpecs Posts: 309
    Thanks chaps. That puts that one to bed then. I guess if I was buying a Ti bike the issue would be one of aesthetics - the black carbon fork on the lovely Ti frame - a good look?
    Having seen the Ti forks on offer from XACD I can see that they are not a winner on the looks front, especially if they have worse performance.
  • socrates
    socrates Posts: 453
    Moots do them and considering their reputation I would say that they are good
  • mclarent
    mclarent Posts: 784
    cougie wrote:
    http://www.backpackinglight.co.uk/product21.asp

    Bargain !

    hahahaha!
    "And the Lord said unto Cain, 'where is Abel thy brother?' And he said, 'I know not: I dropped him on the climb up to the motorway bridge'."
    - eccolafilosofiadelpedale
  • Monty Dog
    Monty Dog Posts: 20,614
    As I said, there's no doubt you could construct a decent fork in 6-4 ti - if you super-plastic-formed the legs and used an investment cast crown - but that would be helluva expensive when you can make a carbon fork for $30! The cost of tooling alone would be prohibitively expensive.
    Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..
  • wilwil
    wilwil Posts: 374
    BigSpecs wrote:
    Thanks chaps. That puts that one to bed then. I guess if I was buying a Ti bike the issue would be one of aesthetics - the black carbon fork on the lovely Ti frame - a good look?
    Having seen the Ti forks on offer from XACD I can see that they are not a winner on the looks front, especially if they have worse performance.

    They look good on a Sabbath once you've taken the horrible labels off the frame.
  • PHcp
    PHcp Posts: 2,748
    Enigma have started offering titainium Audax forks, still a bit ugly
    http://www.enigmabikes.com/components/e ... od_46.html

    Burls have been doing them for years, just as ugly
    http://burls.co.uk/titanium.htm

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