Kurt Kinetic - Any things to watch out for

doyler78
doyler78 Posts: 1,951
edited January 2009 in Workshop
Just found out my Kurt Kinetic Pro has arrived so anybody anythings to watch out for setup or use wise or is it all pretty straightforward?

Comments

  • Hi, I've had one of these for over a year now and have found it to be very good. I bought one of their risers for the front wheel to go with it but have found that by adjusting the frame to the middle setting at the back, I don't need the riser. (I s'pose you might use it to replicate climbing but I don't feel the need to do that as I have plenty of hills where I live). I also had their computer to use ( I think there was a deal on at Planet X where I purchased it from). The computer is ok but the power readings were a bit awry. Anyway, it inspired me to get a Powertap instead!

    Hope all this helps.
  • doyler78
    doyler78 Posts: 1,951
    Thanks a lot. The pointing downards did seem a little strange so my immediate thoughts were riser needed. Will try your suggestion.

    Do you use your normal wheel on the trainer or do you swap it out because there only seems to be three contact point of the trainer with the bike and I can't see how any would cause any damage. There's the tire on the roller but does it get any more abuse than on the road. There's the quick release skewer lever and the locking nut at the other side so can't see any probs here either. That was one of things that had started to make wonder about getting a powertap down the line was that if I had to swap tyres over everytime I went to use the turbo I would either abandon the turbo session or abandon the power readings, neither of which I would want to do.

    Got a quick go on it last night. Easy to setup. Easy to use. Felt pretty smooth. Definitely think I will get my use out of this. If had been a pain to setup I would probably not have bothered so happy that I probably haven't wasted my money.
  • UncleFred
    UncleFred Posts: 227
    Get a cheap tire or even better a trainer specific tire.

    I destroyed a Michelin Pro 3 in 2 sessions!!!
  • doyler78
    doyler78 Posts: 1,951
    OK, have an old wheel so easier to swap that over than pull tyres on and off so I'll do that.
  • andyrr
    andyrr Posts: 1,822
    Found a TT specific tyre helped it run smoother.

    Tyre pressure around 100psi and roller pressure sufficient that I don't really suffer srom tyre slip then check the roll-down from 20mph, should be 13 - 14 seconds. Feels to me like the resistance unit takes maybe 10 mins or so to warm up then it's consistant.

    The way I have my KK setup seems to have the rear wheel so I just prop the front wheel
    up with whatever I have to hand that give a fairly level position.

    I got mine from P-X a couple of years ago as a deal with TT tyre and power computer, about 12 months ago the computer started failing so got it replaced. Been fine since and I reckon it's a pretty accurate device.
  • doyler78
    doyler78 Posts: 1,951
    I've just spent 2 hours faffing around changing cassettes over - missed one of the two spacers on the dura ace cassette which I was swapping onto my Scott as this was on my spare wheel. Too nice a cassette for a turbo rig so swapped it for the 105 cassette. So pulling cassettes off and on trying to find out why the chain wasn't move up the top part of the cassette properly - spotted the spacer - problem sorted. Went to try and put the whole cassette on carefully and of course slipped out my hands. Bits everywhere. The turbo session got dumped. I did get to have a good run through all the gears on both chainrings and I did notice there was a bit of tyre slip so kept tightening it up but still was getting a bit of slip but this was mainly when starting up again. Once I got going it seemed fine. Didn't know there was a roll-down test so that seems a great way of checking the consistency of the setup. Will try that one tomorrow. Will be looking for that computer if it comes back into to stock as I can't find it anywhere in the UK. Looks to me like these are maybe moving to CRC as I bought mine from there as P-X had no stock of any kk turbos and the computer is no longer even listed.

    Just running through the gears tonight - which took about 5 mins I was sweating like a pig so can't wait for my fan to arrive as I think I will need it. I stuck a book under the front wheel tonight as because the turbo is so stable it seemed to work fine so I'll probably use that rather than fiddle with position of the trainer or purchasing the riser block.

    Bit gutted that I made such a hash of getting the setup done this evening but at least everythings good to go for tomorrow.

    Will bear that turbo tyre in mind if I do notice any squealing or slippage that I just can't seem to sort.
  • andyrr
    andyrr Posts: 1,822
    Also, undo the roller pressure on the rear tyre by 2 turns to allow the wheel to be removed / refitted. Initially I was trying to maintain the roller's setting unchanged and this made removing the bike a nightmare.
  • I always seem to get an amount of tyre slip. There is a fine line between having a nice smooth action and some spin. the spin generally seems worse when the thing is cold, once warmed up, slipping seems less of a problem. I run Mich Krylion tyres and the back one is pretty squared off :lol: I have got one of those orange TT tyres by Conti. It was the biggest SoB to fit and I have just left it on an old wheel which is hanging up in the garage as I have not used it since getting the P/T.

    Take a little extra care when tightening the trainer on to the Q/R skewer, I have managed to pull the bike out of the trainer when going in to sprint mode (and Tom Boonen I'm not!).

    My trainer came with it's own skewer, however, I don't use it as I haven't found it any better than the ones from Mavic that I use with my ordinary wheels.

    Enjoy!
  • doyler78
    doyler78 Posts: 1,951
    Roll down test. Is the wheel supposed to come to a complete stop within those 13-14 secs as it takes about 25 secs for mine to come to a complete stop and that's with 3 full turns of the adjustment knob once the tyre just touches the roller?

    Done a session yesterday which was a nice easyish one as I was really using the workout as a means of testing Polar Power unit. Very consistent in reporting wattage when I used both set speeds and set cadences but then that only tells me that it reads the same not that it reads right however on crossover gears for the same speed and cadence it reported watts within 3 or 4 watts so it looks like I can use this as a means of doing my workouts. Will check it against a powertap next month.

    Having really only rolling terrain around me trying to do specific interval workouts on the road was a nightmare and the real reason I got the turbo and I've never seen my power curves with so little variability in them. It really does show just how much all those little change affect the power you need to produce. I wanted to a relatively hard session day just to test things out so I planned 15 minute warmup then 30 mins tempo followed by 10 mins threshold repeated twice then a cool down. It was an absolute nightmare. My energy started to fall after my first 10 min threshold and I stupidly only had water on the bike and I could have done with an energy drink on this session. Schoolboy error. Anyway managed to hang on to the end of the second 30 min tempo but had nothing for the final 10 min threshold so dumped that went straight to cool down. Sweated like a complete pig (I sweat bad anyway). Got an industrial fan coming. Should be here early next week and hopefully that will help things a bit here otherwise I have to say the turbo session is the first time I have ever understood perceived effort. With my rolling terrain I always found it impossible to judge effort just on feel but on the turbo it was pretty easy to tell how hard I was working.

    Loved today's session even if I didn't achieve what I wanted but it was a good effort so happy enough though wondering if my FTP is set a little high - maybe 10 points but I'll wait for the other fan to come to see what happens there and if I still feel my levels are too high I will do a turbo based FTP test.

    No probs with wheel slip once I get the first few turns of the cranks sorted. My bike slipped out of the turbo on my very first go however the solution was to have the skewer lever come over the top of the slot and the bolt to sit in it that way when you pull the close lever over there is no way that bike can slip out as the lever over the top means it can't fall out. I changed to the skewer that came with it as I didn't want to scuff my black skewers. Andy have to agree about removing the tyre resistance off again as it is too difficult to get the bike out of the turbo.

    The spinervals DVD that came with the turbo look good - its 23.0 Time savers 1. There's a 30 min Tempo/TT session which I will give a go. That power/sprint one looks really hard so I'll introduce that one in a few weeks as that's what I want to concentrate on in my middle training block.

    All in all I have to say that I am very happy with my purchase and only time will tell whether I see the benefits I want to see from the turbo sessions.
  • andyrr
    andyrr Posts: 1,822
    Yup, the spindown time is from 20Mph to totally stationary.
    I was on mine this AM and did my usual test and that's how it worked out.
    TBH as long as you have the resistance so that the tyre does not spin when pedalling and you have set the circumference correctly then you should be ok but 5 secs sounds awfulyl long - I just have the basic KK not the one with the extra heavy flywheel so maybe yours is a different model ?

    I'm sure that if you plan your sessions then you will see benefits - with your session of today it just sounded as if your initial level of effort was too high to maintain but that is something to aim at and if you have a consistant setup then you will see if you are improving.
  • doyler78
    doyler78 Posts: 1,951
    :oops: :oops: Just checked the KK site. Coast down time for the pro is 60-90 secs though curiously it doesn't say from what speed. Looks like I've been overtightening. Will experiment tomorrow.

    I was expecting too much today as I hadn't been on the bike (before last night) from 23 December as I took a week off at Christmas and then got flu over the New Year which still has me sniffling though my resting heart rate is nearly back to normal so that's why I went for it. On reflection I would have been better off just keeping it down.
  • andyrr
    andyrr Posts: 1,822
    See here :
    http://www.timetriallingforum.co.uk/ind ... opic=27324

    Std KK has a rundown of 60secs it seems but that's from 25Mph, 13 secs or so from 20Mph.
    Depends on the flywheel you have - mine is the Road Machine with std flywheel.
    I get a reading of 256W at 20.0Mph

    I can manage 20Mph or so for intervals but once I try to push it up to and over 21Mph it seems to get a lot harder to maintain that speed.
  • Marko1962
    Marko1962 Posts: 320
    The computer is ok but the power readings were a bit awry. Anyway, it inspired me to get a Powertap instead!

    Hope all this helps.

    Mr Flandrianfield I was just wondering - if you have a powertap could you possibly give me a readout of what watts you are getting at various speeds? I have KK and a graph of power at various speeds so would like to see how accurate it is.

    It would be greatly appreciated...
  • doyler78
    doyler78 Posts: 1,951
    Marko1962 wrote:
    The computer is ok but the power readings were a bit awry. Anyway, it inspired me to get a Powertap instead!

    Hope all this helps.

    Mr Flandrianfield I was just wondering - if you have a powertap could you possibly give me a readout of what watts you are getting at various speeds? I have KK and a graph of power at various speeds so would like to see how accurate it is.

    It would be greatly appreciated...

    Is rider & bike weight a consideration in such a comparison and I too would find that info helpful?
  • doyler78
    doyler78 Posts: 1,951
    I was enquiring with kk about their power computer as they don't seem to be available anywhere. Seems they are no longer producing the current model as per this email response of which I found this most interesting:

    "We will be introducing a new series of Power Computers in Spring of 2009".

    Its the word series that has me wondering - more than 1 type perhaps! Wonder what it is that they are looking at introducing/what new features they will offer. Worth the watching anyway and not too far off either.

    I've sent an email asking for coast down times so will update this if I get an answer back.