SRAM 10 Speed Gears

jayson

I was reading up about the new sram 10 speed setup they're sposed to be dropping in 09 and something struck me. Alot of the worries about such a setup come from the fact that the chain will need to be thinner along with cassette sprockets themselves leading to the worry of damage and bad changes etc especially in the typically grotty conditions we experience in the UK

Maybe im missing something but wouldnt it just be easier to make the rear hubs 150mm like some DH/FR bikes have? the extra width would mean that cassettes wouldnt need to be so closely spaced so the chain wouldnt need to be so thin therefore eliminating somewhat the worry of them breaking etc and the wheel itself wouldnt be dished as much as a 135mm hub. Im sure in a couple of years the 150mm spacing would become the norm on all mtb's just as the move from 130mm to 135mm.

What do people think, have i missed something here??

BlackSpur

From what I gather, the 10sp set up is aimed at elite XC racers - they aren't going to want the extra weight of a wider hub and won't mind the reduced drivetrain longevity.

Sir HC

Wider rear hubs result in having a wider bb. So you feet are now spaced further apart, as well as having a bike which has an even wider back end so more chance of mech's getting ripped off.

I really don't see why manufacturers are bothering to devlop the deraileur system any further. The way forward is gearboxes mounted in the frame.

Millyward has got the perfect setup, the back end is 130mm wide, no mechs to catch, internal chain, so less maintanence.

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/Millyard-r ... -2007.html

supersonic

We had all these hang ups when we went from 8 to 9. I don't see a need for 10, I think SRAM are doing it simply because it is one more than 9 and gives the groupset something to focus on as being 'better'.

Current derailer systems are about as good as they will ever be, perfect for most of us. Gear boxes are improving as above, but weight and cost still an issue.

LordBanks

Yeah, i think this 10 speed thing is a bit 'Spinal Tap' myself.

supersonic

SHould see Campagnolo's 11 speed roadie groupset!

Yukon Lad

it sounds a bit dim and may not even work but it may be good for elite XC racers but apart from that i can't see a use for it

Yukon Lad

jayson

Until the gearbox technology becomes light enough for normal everyday use derailleurs will always be used so the points stated are relevant until then.

The use of a wider spaced hub would help negate some of these problems surely? the same arguments were put forward when we switched to 7,8 and 9 speeds but they soon disappeared when people saw the advantage of the wider hub.

How was that any different to the problem we have with 10 speeds? we're far more able to engineer a workable solution today than we ever were all those years ago.

I do agree that it seems to be a case of one up manship on the part of sram but it can also be argued that it is simply an inescapable natural progression in terms of current technology.

supersonic

A 15mm jump is a big one, and XC riders don't like the increased Q factor.

I'd still happily run 8 speed, and am considering swithcing back on one bike.

Sarnian

I don't really see the point of 10 speed, I did have 10 speed on my tri bike but know granny ring so only 2 chainrings. But when It comes to a MTB I would not be surprised that If we hat to we could probably cope ok with going back to 7 speed, would not mind giving It a go, It's been that long since I have ridden with a 7 speed cassette.

Northwind

Yeah, I'm sure you could convince people to accept a new standard * if there was a big benefit... But 10-speed doesn't really bring that. Not enough carrot. I'm new to this 27 speed lark (21 speed was the stuff of wet dreams when I got my last bike, and the time before that I spend £100 extra to upgrade to the highly futuristic index shifting, on the rear mech at least) but tbh all it seems to give me is an extra 6 wrong gears for every situation, and exactly the same number of right ones. I can live without another 3 wrong gears thanks.

(* why is it that "standard" means a different thing in bikes than it does in literally everything else in the world? It literally translates into "Chaotic and completely incomprehensible variation")

Yukon Lad

same here, apart from blasting down fireroads i have never on my bike which is 8 speed used my 24th gear

Yukon Lad

supersonic

When I were a lad, everyone seemed to judge bikes on how many gears it had lol.

It would be good if they could make a front mech that could handle bigger jumps than say 14t - a double chainring of say 24/42 would be ideal for many with an 11-34 cassette.

redddraggon

jayson wrote:

Maybe im missing something but wouldnt it just be easier to make the rear hubs 150mm like some DH/FR bikes have? the extra width would mean that cassettes wouldnt need to be so closely spaced so the chain wouldnt need to be so thin therefore eliminating somewhat the worry of them breaking etc and the wheel itself wouldnt be dished as much as a 135mm hub. Im sure in a couple of years the 150mm spacing would become the norm on all mtb's just as the move from 130mm to 135mm.

There's already two types of 10 speed hub adding a third would be silly.

BlackSpur wrote:

From what I gather, the 10sp set up is aimed at elite XC racers - they aren't going to want the extra weight of a wider hub and won't mind the reduced drivetrain longevity.

10 speed hasn't really reduced the longevity of components on the road compared to 9 speed, so I wouldn't imagine it would be reduced that much on an MTB. I think reduced lifetime is a bit of an old wives tale, it's probably unnoticeable in reality.

I cringed when Campagnolo announced 11speed , and I'm sure MTBers will do the same with 10 speed, but eventually you'll get used to idea, and you might even see advantages.

Anonymous

even i wont be in a rush to "upgrade", but if it is invented, it will find its way onto bikes as oem kit.

i would imagine it will only be fitted to short travel xc bikes at first but eventually it will spread to other bikes too.

i dont think we need to be afraid of 10 speed coming, im sure there will be few real advantages to it for most folk but when its fitted to 2011's bikes, i doubt we will all be shunnning them in favour of "dated" technology

Northwind

supersonic wrote:

When I were a lad, everyone seemed to judge bikes on how many gears it had lol.

It would be good if they could make a front mech that could handle bigger jumps than say 14t - a double chainring of say 24/42 would be ideal for many with an 11-34 cassette.

Yup, when I got my Raleigh Marauder Index (not your run of the mill blue one, nooo, the sexy white one) it was the first bike in the playground with 18 gears. It was like being Russell Brand for the day Course, it didn't stop it weighing 14 kilos and going rusty overnight.

I could totally go for a 20-speed (or an 18, or a 16) over 27 or 30 speed, if it did it right... Give me a good range of low and mid gears and a couple of huge mashers for the downhills and I'm happy.

Anonymous

how do you reckon you will go from the low and mid range gears to the big mashers? thats right, more gears in between, just cause we have em it doesnt mean we have to use em but without them, we wouldnt be able to shift between the usefull gears we need.

supersonic

This is what Hammershmidt effictively does, though a slightly less ratio. I'd just like the option.

I often simultaneously change front and rear in one go and pre empt what I need before running out of gears. Shimano multishift either way is a nice advantage ;-)

Anonymous

i like the look of the hammerschmidt too, but ive heard it will be v pricey indeed, plus it needs iscg tabs (not a problem on the enduro which is the bike i would want it for)

doesnt sram multishift?

supersonic

Only one way ;-)

salsarider79

Shimano do a 10speed flat bar shifter already, so team it up with a road rear mech and cassette and you can have that 'new' technology already. The only new thing will be wider range of ratios out back.....

Hate to sound complacent, but it's been done already.

jayson

I cant wait for a couple of years time when it does become standard on midrange bikes how many people talk about 10 speed and how great it is after hearing all the nay sayers today talking about how pointless it is.

If extra gears really are not that important why dont we all just switch back to 15 speed gears and be done with all this techno rubbish??

Its innevitable it will happen, im just surprised its taken aslong as it has done. Until the fangled gearbox solutions are light and reliable then the current trend of upping the physical number of gears using external sprockets will continue. The mtb we know today is knowhere near finished evolving and the new tech will continue.

Personally i cant wait to see whats around corner whether it be 10 speed or something else completely different.

Anonymous

supersonic wrote:

Only one way ;-)

aye but thats only with xtr isnt it? have you ridden it?

supersonic

I think you could feel 5 speed wasn't enough, gaps were too big in places. I don't feel that with 8 or 9, so on that basis, 10 is too many for me and would think the majority of riders.

Have to stop somewhere!

supersonic

sheepsteeth wrote:

supersonic wrote:

Only one way ;-)

aye but thats only with xtr isnt it? have you ridden it?

Yep, and I am seriously considering a set, as they are so smooth!

Anonymous

you might be able to buy mine!

supersonic

Really?! Swap you for my X9 ;-)

Anonymous

im still wondering what to do, dont get me wrong, it is very very good, but i just prefer sram shifting, like we have discussed before, tis just a matter of taste.

need to look at second hand prices but i think i will change to x0 mech and new style x9 shifters or maybe twisters again (it wont feel any better than "lower" spec sram i know but the tart in me wouldnt have it any other way)

supersonic

If you sell them, PM me ;-)

I do like SRAM twisters, nothing is as fast.

Mattmanic

jayson wrote:

Personally i cant wait to see whats around corner whether it be 10 speed or something else completely different.

I want a variomatic bike!

No gear changes and it makes a noise like a jet turbine.