Decent double crankset, or triple for that matter.

daniel_b
daniel_b Posts: 11,770
edited December 2008 in Workshop
The carbon FSA I was considering is now no longer an option, and I was a smidge put off by peoples comments about it's durability.

I'm currently running a 53/42, so am either wanting to switch to a triple, or a compact I guess, or at least a 5X/39.

Are there any to avoid out there?

Is this Ritchey any good for example?
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=19513
19513.jpg

Dan
Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
Scott CR1 SL 12
Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
Scott Foil 18

Comments

  • maddog 2
    maddog 2 Posts: 8,114
    Facts are meaningless, you can use facts to prove anything that's remotely true! - Homer
  • Yep - pick up a 105. You can get the Hollowtech 2 version for £70 or so on eBay. Whilst many people run FSA without problems I have had a few and would steer clear...
  • YGM!
  • John C.
    John C. Posts: 2,113
    FSA seem to wear out the BB quickley and are not compatable with Shimano, so if you buy FSA I think you are stuck with their BBs. (Please don't shout at me if I'm wrong)
    http://www.ripon-loiterers.org.uk/

    Fail to prepare, prepare to fail
    Hills are just a matter of pace
  • maddog 2
    maddog 2 Posts: 8,114
    you are wrong. :wink:

    whether it's square taper, octalink or hT2 (road or mtb) then Shimano BBs will work with FSA chainsets. I've run a few FSA chainsets in the apst and they've been fine. Rings are good and they work/last well generally. But you have to go some to beat Shimano's offerings, especially the HT2 stuff.
    Facts are meaningless, you can use facts to prove anything that's remotely true! - Homer
  • Mettan
    Mettan Posts: 2,103
    Daniel B wrote:

    I'm currently running a 53/42, so am either wanting to switch to a triple, or a compact I guess

    Dan

    If you're thinking in terms of Compacts, Dan -

    Bare minimum - 4550 - HT 2 - £ 40

    http://www.parker-international.co.uk/5 ... inset.html

    Better - R600 - HT 2- £ 60

    http://www.parker-international.co.uk/5 ... inset.html

    Even Better - R700 - HT 2- £ 90

    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Mode ... elID=11793

    Not sure if you're 9 or 10 speed? I currently use the Shimano 4550 HT 2 - very pleased with it - well-made, reliable, stiff, bit weighty, good value for money on the whole.
  • daniel_b
    daniel_b Posts: 11,770
    Thanks for the replies chaps,

    the Felt is currently a 9 spd 105, but the kit on the Marin is 10spd 105, so I will be swapping them between bikes, making the felt a 10spd.

    Does the crankset have to be specifically 10spd compatible? (See further down)

    Is R700 105 effectively?

    I like the look of Maddogs first 105 offering, seems very good vaule, especially if I can get over it being silver!

    EDIT: Just found the 105 crankset for £34 at JE James, and in black!
    It is still Hollowtech is it, and presumably would just need to team it up with a 105 or ultegra Hollotech BB?

    And can anyone tell me what the difference is between these three please....?
    http://www.jejamescycles.co.uk/id24458.html
    http://www.jejamescycles.co.uk/id6341.html
    http://www.jejamescycles.co.uk/id11872.html

    And then they have this one too: http://www.jejamescycles.co.uk/id33499.html

    Or if I am running 10spd at the rear, will i definitely need a 10 spd chainset such as this:
    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?PartnerID=79&ModelID=11790

    The Marin I bought 2nd hand, and this had been converted from 9spd to 10spd, but they didn't bother changing the chainset, and it seems to ride fine, which is what made me wonder if you do need a specific 10spd crankset, or whether a9 would do fine?

    Dan
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • maddog 2
    maddog 2 Posts: 8,114
    don't worry about mixing 9 and 10spd chainsets. It'll make no difference.

    the first three chainsets are all basically the same. They are 105 and run on an octalink BB

    the fourth on is different. That's a HT2 design using separate BB cups, rather than a single BB unit lyou get with an octalink BB.

    R700 is Ultegra level. Hollow arms and decent rings.

    Basically, if you want a bargian, get an older octalink c/set. If you have a bit more cash then go HT2 as they're newer and stiffer.
    Facts are meaningless, you can use facts to prove anything that's remotely true! - Homer
  • daniel_b
    daniel_b Posts: 11,770
    Thanks for the reply MD< much appreciated.

    I think, as I always like to improve when I replace parts, that I will go for a HTII setup if at all possible, so will almost certiainly be aiming towards a 105 setup, just got to work out whether to go for a triple, 53/39 double, or a full compact setup.

    And I'm assuming my BB choice is limited to:
    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=11726
    Or:
    http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=11725

    The other things that I noticed are that they seem to be cheaper than the Octalink equivalents, is that because they are simpler?

    And I also noticed that the sizings are only given in one measurement, ie:
    Octalink: 105 -
    68-109mm
    68-108mm
    70-109.5mm Italian
    70-118mm Italian

    HTII: Ultegra
    Pair British 68mm
    Pair Italian 70mm

    To me this suggests that for the Hollowtech there is only one possible size i could buy, and that some how the width adjustment required for Octalink chainsets is no longer an issue for HTII setups?

    Also, sorry for all the Q's, but will I need a special HT tool to fit these puppies?

    EDIT: Sorry, just to add confusion, just looke don the winstanleys bike, and it has the following:http://www.winstanleysbikes.co.uk/product/12927/Shimano_105_Chainset_Triple_5603

    In the description is states: Bottom Bracket Included
    But then states: Please Note: You will also need to Shimano 105 Bottom Bracket Cups (5600) to use these Cranks

    Are the bottom bracket cups the 2 BB's I linked to from CRC, or is that more than I would need to buy, and I need something else?


    Cheers

    Dan
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • kilo
    kilo Posts: 174
    A hollowtech is not a traditional bottom bracket being just two sets of bearing cups that screw onto either side of your bottom bracket shell on your bike therfoe they work over a variety of lenghts. The actual axle on a hollowtech is on the chainset. Hope that makes some sense! There is a special tool for fitting hollowtechs, it coss about a tenner and is also needed for tightening the hollowtech cranks so is worth getting
    The listing you refer to is a bit slppy but it looks like you would have to buy the hollowtech cups seperately, I've bought 3 shimano hollowtech chainsets from various shops and none came with the cups.
  • daniel_b
    daniel_b Posts: 11,770
    Thanks Kilo, I just checked my tookit, and it would appear it already has the relevant HT tool in it, which is a bonus :D

    I am assuming the BB's listed on CRC are therefore the BB cups referred to in the other listing.

    So my next Q is whether to go for a 5603 Triple for £60, or a 5600 Double for £70 - I feel a poll coming on.......

    Dan
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • daniel_b
    daniel_b Posts: 11,770
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • John.T
    John.T Posts: 3,698
    Either will fit. Ultegra is slightly better quality.
    As for the double, triple, compact question it depends a lot on what you want it for and want to do.
    53/39 double will give a bit lower bottomgear than you have at the moment. All your present kit will work with it.
    Triple 52/42/30 or similar will give the same high gears but considerably lower bottom ones. You will need a long cage rear mech for this and also a triple front one.
    Compact 50/34 will give a bit lower high gear (aprox 1 cog lower) and will give a bottom gear a little higher than the triple. All your present kit will work with this.
    All this assumes you use the same cassette with all options. To work out these and other gearing options use Sheldon's gear calculator. I would recomend setting it to 'gear inches'.
    http://sheldonbrown.com/gears/
  • willbevan
    willbevan Posts: 1,241
    after switching to a tripple recently from a compact double I dont think I will have a compact again, a double or a triple, but not a compact double.

    Reason being i find i need to change more regularly between the large and small ring on the compact, enough that it is anoying.

    With a triples middle ring (42 in my case), i cycled a 30mi route saturday without really coming off it except for one steep hill (okay have a go at me if you liuke for not going onto the 53), plenty of hills, and even on the down hill doing almost 30 mphj

    Would of beeen switching on and off if i was still on a compact.

    That way as well, its a double with just a granny ring if you need it after a long ride, or prefer spinning up hills :)
    Road - BTwin Sport 2 16s
    MTB - Trek Fuel 80
    TT - Echelon

    http://www.rossonwye.cyclists.co.uk/
  • maddog 2
    maddog 2 Posts: 8,114
    depends on how hilly your local scenery is, and whether you like triples or not.
    Facts are meaningless, you can use facts to prove anything that's remotely true! - Homer
  • daniel_b
    daniel_b Posts: 11,770
    Well it is fairly hilly round here in Berkshire, and I have had triples on all my bikes so far, apart from the Felt and the SS I just bought, so I am not anti triple by any means.

    Dan
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • John.T
    John.T Posts: 3,698
    It all depends on how you ride. I can do a 60 mile ride and never come off the 34 if I am going up into the Dales. Average speed is usually 15/16 mph. If I go the other way into the Vale of York I will use the 50 almost all the time. I never have any trouble changing rings anyway.
    When I ran standard double and also a triple I just wore the 39 out all the time unless I was racing. I now race on a compact and have them on all 3 bikes. I do not think I will be changing.
  • daniel_b
    daniel_b Posts: 11,770
    Thanks for all the replies chaps.

    After much head scratching and web searching, I have come up with the following:

    My Current setup is a 53/42 with a 12/23 on the back (Just double checked)
    This gives me a smallest gear of 47.48, and a biggest gear of 114.83

    I think I have decided to go for a 52 or 53/39, and the new rear cassette (12-25) will give me a new low of 40.56, with the high remaining the same.

    Do you reckon the 7" drop in the bottom gear will be sufficient for some fairly serious hills?? A 20% climb for example?

    Dan
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • redddraggon
    redddraggon Posts: 10,862
    If can climb a 20% hill, after you've already done 50 or so miles and are a bit tired, on a 39-25, you are pretty good.
    I like bikes...

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  • daniel_b
    daniel_b Posts: 11,770
    Hi RD, so your saying that it would be possible, but you would clearly have to be pretty fit?

    Not impossible then?

    I could of course at some point switch to a 12-27, which would take my bottom gear down to 37.56, a full 10" less than current - more likely?

    Dan
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • John.T
    John.T Posts: 3,698
    I would have gone for a 12/27 cassette. The 21,24,27 gives a better spread of gears than the 21,23,25 which I find too close.
    Your calculations are not quite right. Try Sheldon's Gear Calculator.
    http://sheldonbrown.com/gears/
    Your top gear is actualy 116.1" based on 700.23C tyres. 39/25 gives 41". 39/27 is 38".
    Must type faster.
  • 6288
    6288 Posts: 131
    if ur still second guessing if a double 52/39 is gonna be ok for ur needs then u need to think about a 50/36 compact or triple ...

    how heavy and how old are you (if u don't mind me asking) ... reason i ask is that if u r already pretty fit and slimish then likelihood is that if you are over 30 then u will find it harder to stay at same fitness levels and stay at same weight as the years go on (despite what lance tells you) ... at which point a compact or triple might be best for those 20% hills you'll be doing ...
  • John.T
    John.T Posts: 3,698
    Anything is possible Dan but may not be very comfortable. I prefer to be climbing on my 34/21 (42.5) knowing I have 2 gears to go should I need them. In this years Ryedale Rumble I was grovelling on Blakey Ridge on the 34/27 due to the hills already riden and the heat. It would have been a long walk on 39/25. A triple with a 30 ring would have only lowered the gear by 4" so would not have made much difference. I have used triple, standard and compact chainsets over the last 10 years and they are all a compromise in some respect. I have decided that for me the compact is the best one. Still not perfect. I would like 12/27 11sp to get the 18 cog in. That would be as good as it gets.
  • redddraggon
    redddraggon Posts: 10,862
    Daniel B wrote:
    Hi RD, so your saying that it would be possible, but you would clearly have to be pretty fit?

    Not impossible then?

    I could of course at some point switch to a 12-27, which would take my bottom gear down to 37.56, a full 10" less than current - more likely?

    Dan

    It's not impossible, I don't know your level of fitness - I probably couldn't do a long 20% stretch with that gearing.

    However 20% is pretty steep, and they aren't really that common are they? And quite often they are pretty short, so 39-25 is probably doable - but probably not for longer 20% stretches.
    I like bikes...

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  • daniel_b
    daniel_b Posts: 11,770
    John - thanks for that, I shall use Sheldon's calculator to get a proper set of figures :oops:

    I too would have gone for a 12-27, but I'm just making use of the 105 kit that is on my Marin, so as 'it's there' I'm going to use it, but of course it will be replaced someday.

    6288 - I'm 32, reasonably fit, ie I was cycling to work everyday, all be it only a couple of miles, and quite often will do a 30-40 miler at the weekends, my weight is around 10st 8, so probably 70ish KG I think that is.

    Redddraggon - Yes your right, they are not likely to be that common.

    Hmmm, I have some thinking to do, and earlier I had decided on a 53-39!

    Dan
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • daniel_b
    daniel_b Posts: 11,770
    Right, well thanks to the Sheldon Brown calulator I now have the following stats:

    Current 53/42 with a 12/23 setup: Gear range = 116.10 - 48.00

    If I buy a 53/39 Double combined with a 12/25: Gear range = 116.10 - 41.00 (-7")
    If I buy a 50/34 compact combined with a 12/25: Gear range = 109.5 - 35.70 (-12.3")
    If I buy a 50/39/30 triple combined with a 12/25: Gear range = 109.5 - 31.50 (-16.5")

    53/39 Double with a 12/27: Gear range = 116.10 - 38.00 (-10")

    Hmmmm.......
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • daniel_b
    daniel_b Posts: 11,770
    Hello again,

    so the Ultegra SL I had my eye on has now sold out :(

    Grrrr, anyway, I have decided to go back to basics, and as suggested earlier in the thread, to go for a Octalink 5502 105 setup, can anyone confirm for me that the correct BB for my Felt if I'm going for a double is a 5500 68-108: http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=906

    And for a triple it would be the 68-118?

    I'm hoping I don;t need to worry about the Italian sizing.......

    Still haven't decided on the ratio's yet, but am thinking it will probably be the 53/39 that wins out.

    Thanks in advance

    Dan
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18
  • John.T
    John.T Posts: 3,698
    It is actualy 68-109 but that is the one. 118 is for triple. Felt will be a 68mm English. Italian are 70mm.
  • daniel_b
    daniel_b Posts: 11,770
    Doh :oops:

    Cheers John, I shall be passing info on to my gf for my Christmas presents then :-)

    Dan
    Felt F70 05 (Turbo)
    Marin Palisades Trail 91 and 06
    Scott CR1 SL 12
    Cannondale Synapse Adventure 15 & 16 Di2
    Scott Foil 18