Question for torque wrench owners...

Jamey

I need to buy a cassette lockring remover tool (Shimano HG) but I don't want to make the same mistake I did with my bottom bracket tool (cartridge, square taper).

With the bottom bracket tool I bought an adapter that attached directly to my torque wrench (3/4" drive) and I found that because of the very high torque needed when tightening BBs the tool wasn't stable enough and kept slipping because it didn't have a central pin to hold it in place. And I couldn't use a QR skewer to hold it tight because the adapter had a square hole to attach straight onto the wrench. So I ended up forgetting the torque wrench and using an all-in-one tool to tighten the BB because it was far easier due to the central pin which gave it more stability.

Now I need to change a cassette and I'm faced with a similar choice. I know an all-in-one tool will be stable and work well but since I've bought a torque wrench I want to make sure I use it otherwise I've wasted my money.

So it seems there are basically three different 'styles' of cassette adapter and all of them have pros and cons, so I'd like to get opinions from those of you who (a) have done this job more often than me and (b) use a torque wrench to do it.

Here are the three styles. please tell me which one you think would be best:

---

Style One:



Link to product page

Pros: Fits directly onto wrench, keeping head of wrench as close as possible to lockring.
Cons: No central pin for stability. Cannot use QR skewer to hold it in place.

---

Style Two:



Link to product page

Pros: Large central pin for stability.
Cons: Does not fit directly onto wrench so need to use a large socket attachment which moves head of wrench further away from lockring. Cannot use QR skewer to hold in place although debatable whether you'd need to with it having a central pin.

---

Style Three:



Link to product page

Pros: Can use QR skewer to hold it in place.
Cons: Does not fit directly onto wrench so again would need to use a large socket attachment which would need to fit over the protruding end of the QR skewer in addition to the normal bolt-head type bit of the adapter.

---

So there you go, those are the three styles I've found. Which would you use and why?

Also, do all chain whips fit all cassettes? The Park whip only comes in one size but other brands seem to have separate models for nine-speed and ten-speed cassettes. Do I need to worry about this? My bike is nine-speed at the rear. Will this Park whip fit?

Gav2000

I don't use my torque wrench for my cassette. The advice I have read is to tighten it until you hear/feel 3 or 4 clicks as the lockring tightens. I give it a few more clicks for safety and that's it. I think I have tool number 3.

I wasn't aware that chain whips came in different sizes. My unbranded one works for 9 speed chains.

Gav.

mostly harmless

What you need is one like this

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SHIMANO-CASSETTE- ... 286.c0.m14

which has a connection for a socket drive in the back. I can't remember if it's 3/4 or 1/2 but adaptors are cheap and plentiful.

Although, if we're being brutally honest here, I can never be arsed to use a torque wrench to put a cassette on and just do it up until it's tight. This hasn't failed me yet in 10+ years.

Hope this helps

alfablue

I use type 1 with a torque wrench - it works fine, admittedly it takes care to stop it slipping when undoing the cassette because both hands are occupied - in this case I can use the QR skewer and an adjustable wrench on the flats if necessary (no torque wrench needed for undoing). For doing it up I have one hand over the head of the torque wrench to hold it steady, do it up to 40 lb/ft (that's quite tight), no problems. I have had issues with the lockrings coming loose so I now use medium threadlock and a torque wrench - I think I used to under-tighten them, being rather cautious.

Jamey

alfablue wrote:

For doing it up I have one hand over the head of the torque wrench to hold it steady...

What about holding the chain whip? Do you get someone else to hold that so you can use two hands on the wrench (one on the head, one applying the leverage)?

Jamey

alfablue wrote:

For doing it up I have one hand over the head of the torque wrench to hold it steady...

What about holding the chain whip? Do you get someone else to hold that so you can use two hands on the wrench (one on the head, one applying the leverage)?

maddog 2

you don't need a torque wrench for the cassette IMO. The lockring has 'teeth' which stop it coming undone.

1 or 3 will be fine.

alfablue

Jamey wrote:

alfablue wrote:

For doing it up I have one hand over the head of the torque wrench to hold it steady...

What about holding the chain whip? Do you get someone else to hold that so you can use two hands on the wrench (one on the head, one applying the leverage)?

No, I have always managed alone and without problems. But my point is, the chainwhip is only required for undoing, and in that case no torque wrench is needed so a skewer plus adjustable wrench can be used, avoiding the issue of slippage - for re-assembly no chain whip is needed, so I have two hands and can use the torque wrench.

Got no friends anyway

Jamey

D'oh, yes, of course... I forgot you didn't need a chain whip for installation.

If I'm not going to use the torque wrench (and it sounds like I'm not) then I might just get an all-in-one tool like this:
http://www.wiggle.co.uk/p/Cycle/7/LifeL ... 360026442/

Or this:
http://www.sjscycles.co.uk/src/froogle/ ... -14154.htm

Only prob with the second one is that it only seems to come as a set with that chain whip and I'd rather get the Park whip as it looks better.

alfablue

Yes, except you CAN use the torque wrench successfully for installation - though as Maddog 2 suggests it may not really be needed (however, I use one because my lockrings have tended to come loose).

chriskempton

Like others, I don't use torque wrench for cassette. If you want to get your money's worth, use it for:
crank bolts
brake bolts
seat bolts
stem bolts
aheadset bolts
pedals
It's a tool that gives you the ability to tighten things the right amount, and the cassette lockring doesn't need to be accurately tightened - the first time you ride the bike, the chain torque will tighten it anyway.

chriskempton

ignore the last statement of my previous post :oops:

Jamey

I guess... On the one hand it seems a shame to have paid for a torque wrench and then not bother using it, but on the other hand I don't want to complicate the job unnecessarily in some misguided quest to obtain value for money out of stuff I've bought previously.

Oh, quick question to alfablue - how do you stop the wheel from turning when you're using both hands on the wrench while installing the lockring?

alfablue

just by holding the wheel against my body and leaning over to do the business - seems to work.

Jamey

Cool, cheers.

shazzz

Type 2 for me, plus adjustable spanner. Works a treat!

Also use the same whip for 9spd and 10spd.

Jamey

Alfablue - one more question (sorry) you said you had the first style of adapter, that fits directly onto the wrench. You also said you could use a QR skewer if necessary for undoing the lockring. Does that mean the skewer works fine with the square hole in the adapter or do you need to put something between the square hole and the end of the skewer? If so, what do you use?

alfablue

Yes, my Lifu tool and Shimano QR work fine, no washer required. The QR is slightly larger than the 1/2" square drive socket on the tool.

Jamey

Cheers.

Is your torque wrench 1/2" drive then? Or do you use an adapter? I only ask because mine's 3/8" drive although that would probably work in my favour here (presuming I get a lockring adapter with a 3/8" socket) as the smaller square hole will probably work even better with a skewer.

God... I haven't even bought the tool yet and I'm already sick of the sight of it

alfablue

My large wrench is 1/2 inch, my smaller one is 3/8, the lockring tool is 1/2" (I think most are). Adapters are easy to get though for a couple or 3 quid. I use a 3/8 to 1/4" adapter for the small one as I use hex bits that came with my drill, but I mean to get some dedicated 3/8 hex bits - all works fine though.

Jamey

Gah... I've just spotted that the first style of adapter won't actually fit directly onto my wrench after all... It says it fits 3/4" drive wrenches and mine is 3/8" drive. I think I'm going blind.

Don't suppose anyone knows what size spanner/socket the second type of adapter would require? It doesn't say anywhere. I'm guessing either 21mm or 24mm (I think the expensive Pedros cassette removal tools use 24mm).

Will see what my socket set goes up to when I get home later.

scherrit

chain whips..... you can use a wide chain whip on cassettes which have big steps between cogs, for example I use my track (1/8th chain) on most road cassettes by wrapping the biggest cog. If you come across a particularly closely spaced cassette, then you may need a regular 3/32 chain whip, not sure you'd ever need to faf about with 9, 10 or spinal tap chains.

Good luck,
Scherrit.
www.thebikewhisperer.co.uk

Jamey

Cheers all.

Right, I'm getting quite tempted to buy the following:

Pedro's Cog Wrench
Pedro's Socket Handle
Pedro's HG Socket with Pin

The only problem is that those three are £45 and I could buy something like this instead for £13, which is an awful lot cheaper. But I've heard a lot of people on these forums say it's worth spending money on good tools so what do you reckon? Thirteen-pounds on the cheap set or forty-five on the Pedro's stuff?

With the Pedro's I guess there is one advantage in that the handle and socket are as good as an all-in-one tool but I can still remove the socket piece and use it with a torque wrench (provided I can find a 24mm socket) if I want to.

alfablue

I am usually one for quality tools, but for something you rarely use the Pedros seems a bit over the top (I paid £2 for my chain whip and £5 for the socket, for example). The SJS one looks good.

Rockhopper

Just a quick point, never use a torque wrench for undoing things, you'll wreck it fairly quickly.

Jamey

Rockhopper wrote:

Just a quick point, never use a torque wrench for undoing things, you'll wreck it fairly quickly.

Cheers, I'm pleased to say that's one thing I worked out when I bought it but you're right to mention it because that's exactly the sort of thing I'd normally end up doing

giant_man

It's always worth - in the long run - forking out for tools of good quality. Pedros make great quality tools imo.