Kohl test positive for CERA

moray_gub

John Stevenson wrote:

dennisn wrote:

I think you're wrong.

To be blunt, what you think is immaterial.

As a moderator of this site, I am asking you not to express your opinions in ways that amount to personal attacks on other users of this forum.

It's that simple.

When you are doing your moderating thingy..........do you check all the posts or just the ones that you want too ? Seems to me that certain posters get away with all sorts while others dont..........just an observation like.........

cheers
MG

drenkrom

When do we start "doping pundit"? Though work has prevented my daily visits to name my picks this season in PTP, I could make time for the "cheat of the week" pick.

ratherbeintobago

Moray Gub wrote:

When you are doing your moderating thingy..........do you check all the posts or just the ones that you want too ? Seems to me that certain posters get away with all sorts while others dont..........just an observation like.........

cheers
MG

Please don't start on the Mods. I've been a member of other fora where this has happened & it's not pleasant. Moderating is a thankless task, but if somebody didn't do it, the whole forum would descent into a flame war, everybody would get fed up & stop posting etc. etc - I don't think this is what any of us would want.

RBIT

moray_gub

ratherbeintobago wrote:

Moray Gub wrote:

When you are doing your moderating thingy..........do you check all the posts or just the ones that you want too ? Seems to me that certain posters get away with all sorts while others dont..........just an observation like.........

cheers
MG

Please don't start on the Mods. I've been a member of other fora where this has happened & it's not pleasant. Moderating is a thankless task, but if somebody didn't do it, the whole forum would descent into a flame war, everybody would get fed up & stop posting etc. etc - I don't think this is what any of us would want.

RBIT

The mods have to set standards of consistency though, and when they dont as is the case in this forum at times then thats when the problems start.

cheers
MG

itisaboutthebike

clunky steel frame and cr#p 9 speed

Hey there's nowt cr0p about 9 speed Den, or steel frames for that matter.

My training bike's got both so it must be cool.....

LA for president !

(not sure of what tho)

ratherbeintobago

Moray Gub wrote:

The mods have to set standards of consistency though, and when they dont as is the case in this forum at times then thats when the problems start.

I don't see that there is inconsistency on this thread.

(I appreciate that does not reflect what may or may not have gone on other threads)

RBIT

John Stevenson

We react to the stuff people complain about.

Mods can't be everywhere on a site this busy; that's what the exclamation mark button is for.

dennisn

John Stevenson wrote:

dennisn wrote:

I think you're wrong.

To be blunt, what you think is immaterial.

As a moderator of this site, I am asking you not to express your opinions in ways that amount to personal attacks on other users of this forum.

It's that simple.

I apologize. I do in fact realize that yours is a thankless task. Trying, as I think Pink Floyd
once said, "to keep the loonies on the path". Myself included. I'll sign off this one and try to keep it a bit less crazy in the future.

Dennis Noward

ajbell

The dopers are being caught.

GOOD.

Pity there wasn't as stringent tests earlier.

Athletics in the Olympics 1980 & 1984 come to mind.

There are a few that are now casting doubt ...would have been worried then.

Stones & Glass Houses come to mind.

portuguese mike

i'd just like to clarify, for Dennis at least, that i don't think most of those who are complaining about dopers are taking a 'holier than thou' attitude.

Since professional sport is essentially a form of entertainment then i think it's perfectly resonable to complain about those who spoil the spectacle. For me, discovering that an amazing athletic performance is not what it seems is akin to finding out that a great feat was achieved with smoke and mirrors and was a trick all along. It lessens the achievement don't you think? it certainly leaves me feeling disapointed and a bit cheated.

i can understand why some pros are driven to cheat but that doesn't mean that its acceptable.

John Stevenson

Dennis

Thanks for understanding.

You're making a good point, I think, you just need to play the ball not the man - and maybe in a separate thread?

DaveyL

Good to see the rules being enfocred. What about:

"A post will be defamatory if it contains a statement which is untrue and which might cause damage or prejudice to another person's reputation. Because it is published in writing it is called a "Libel".

For a statement to be considered as being true, it must have been accepted as true in a competent court or tribunal or admitted by the person who is the subject of the statement.

Defamatory statements about cyclists are particularly serious for Cycling Plus as the magazine and the forum are fairly prominent in the cycling world and are therefore likely to carry influence.

If you post material about doping or other cheating, please do not make allegations in your post. Please do not quote allegations from other sources. Every repetition of a libel is itself a fresh libel.

Posting a link to another source which might contain a defamatory statement is just about acceptable as long as you don't indicate an approval of the statement in your post.

A defamatory statement is only actionable if it is made about an identifiable individual or class of individual. This means that a statement made about a whole team could be actionable by each of the individual members of the team.

Defamatory statements about dead people are not actionable so where a cyclist has drugged himself to death then go ahead and say what you want.

Please understand that dealing with even the threat of a legal action is costly and disruptive. This means that you may feel that moderator action is sometimes over-cautious."

richard wants a baum

dennisn

Let me ask you something. You say "cars will try to run you off the road". How is it that
they fail to do this, if they are "trying"? If I wanted to run you off the road or worse, how
hard could it be? I simply swerve over, bash into you and you're gone. Seems easy enough. Why would anyone have to "try"? If all those people are "trying to kill you", you'd
be dead by now. In answer to your question, I don't really care one way or another whether pro riders dope or don't. I'm interested in the "why". Why would you care
what someone you don't even know does? Wjhy does it bother you? You're not doping?
Why get so upset? Is it because you took up cycling to be "cool" and now, with all the bad press, you don't look so "cool" to whomever you were trying to impress?

Dennis Noward

Dennis take a joke, and stop trying to sound smart. Why do i care if some one cheats, because i believe in sportsmanship. trust me a 6ft 115kg guy in lycra doesnt look cool.

Yellow Peril

So who will be the next to fall from grace?

It seems that riders such as Kohl, Schumacher, Ricco and Peopli stuck out like sore thumbs for there sudden rise in performance and consistent achievement.

Jens Voigt has always been a hero of mine. For some years now he has given his all for his team and ridden selflessly and agressively for the shirt on his back. If it transpired that he was a cheat then it would be a very sad day indeed.

jimmythecuckoo

flattythehurdler wrote:

method wrote:

Can we agree to ignore Dennis in the hope he'll go away?

+1

he is amusing... :?

Cumulonimbus

Yellow Peril wrote:

So who will be the next to fall from grace?

It seems that riders such as Kohl, Schumacher, Ricco and Peopli stuck out like sore thumbs for there sudden rise in performance and consistent achievement.

Jens Voigt has always been a hero of mine. For some years now he has given his all for his team and ridden selflessly and agressively for the shirt on his back. If it transpired that he was a cheat then it would be a very sad day indeed.

I am a bit surprised that Cobo has survived? His performance up Hautacam was very fast and Piepoli seemed quite chummy with him as Piepoli slowed down a few times so they could finish together.

DavMartinR

So who will be the next to fall from grace?

Think that would be Dennis???

RichN95.

Cumulonimbus wrote:

I am a bit surprised that Cobo has survived? His performance up Hautacam was very fast and Piepoli seemed quite chummy with him as Piepoli slowed down a few times so they could finish together.

Agreed - he was top of my list of likely failures.

jimmythecuckoo

DavMartinR wrote:

So who will be the next to fall from grace?

Think that would be Dennis???

Have I missed his dramatic resignation from the forum?

DavMartinR

jimmythecuckoo wrote:

DavMartinR wrote:

So who will be the next to fall from grace?

Think that would be Dennis???

Have I missed his dramatic resignation from the forum?

No,no resignation. Just from this thread. So we can talk about him now behind his back?? :evil:

steviedonut

squired wrote:

One of the biggest problems cycling has is the nature of the sport. A rider can disappear for a few months of "training" and bar the odd training camp he can do what he wants. At races he will spend most of his non-racing time in his hotel room. Thus its not easy for people in the team to know what he gets up to, if not impossible.

Lets compare to football. Now, I dislike football because I think the cheating that happens during games, in front of tv cameras, is actually far worse than doping. Nothing is done about it, so it just continues. Dive to get a penalty and an old pro will say it is the "professional" thing to do in the post match analysis. Anyway, I digress... The fact is that footballers all train together. They are constantly at the team training ground, or around team officials. They don't have time for trips off to see doctors in other countries during their long season and in the off season seem to be more worried about partying than fitness. This model makes it harder to dope in my opinion. Maybe Garmin have it right by having the majority of their riders based in the same town, training together, etc?

i am a fan of both cycling and football and while the recent revelations,culminating in Kohl getting caught doping(with more to come im sure) are terrible,it gives me a whole lot more optimism for cyclings future than i have for the future of top level football;cycling is at least addressing its problems and is taking a long hard look at itself despite really not liking what it is seeing.We entered the summer convinced that it was only the old guard doping,we leave it with the painful reality that many of the young guard are doing it too,confident that they were one step ahead of the antidoping authorities.For many of them it is now clear that that confidence was misplaced,both for those that were caught and those who now have very twitchy arses- loved the story from a previous poster about the mood on the Gerolsteiner bus after news came out about CERA being detectable,evryone was allegedly delighted apart from Schumacher who suddenly became quiet and withdrawn .I am convinced that the dopers are being backed further and further into a corner and we will soon be at a situation where,if there are the right penalties(a life ban if caught,a 2 year long ban if you 'fess up during a limited amnesty period)there will be little point in doping owing to the likelihood of being caught and the consequence of your career going down the drain.For this reason the authorities must also be very strict with those that play fast and loose with cyclings reputation,eg Vino and the Kazakh authorities.
In football however,the cheating is thoroughly institutionalised-as has been said,commentators approving of cheaters "professionalism",the chelsea manager who has been heard on camera at a previous job urging his players to foul the opposition,non stop diving and a world governing authority that says all the right things but enforces nothing(and is itself corrupt to the core)
As i say,im far more confident of cyclings future at the moment because its facing its demons and attempting to deal with them

Yellow Peril

I think you are right when you refer to the level of drug scrutiny in cycling is high. It is damn high, athletics is only just beginning to catch up.

However, the punishment should fit the crime. If you are a young rider like Ricco then there will always be a temptation to drug cheat because you know that in a worst case scenario you can sit out a two year ban and still be good enough to come back. David Millar did. Luckily he is a reformed character and anti drug campaigner but more cynical riders wil just see it as a two strikes safety net.

In view of this there is probably more temptation for young riders to cheat as they know they will be in a position to exploit their second chance.

Perhaps cycling needs to be tougher. Yes let's give riders a second chance but make the ban longer (4 years seems respectable) or a shorter ban exclude them for life from the high earning grand tours and some of the classics so that they have to really work for their keep in lesser road races.

Kléber

Kohl is going to give a press conference on Thursday morning. So far his lawyer and the Austrian anti-doping authorities are hearing that he's denying it all.

dennisn

DavMartinR wrote:

jimmythecuckoo wrote:

DavMartinR wrote:

So who will be the next to fall from grace?

Think that would be Dennis???

Have I missed his dramatic resignation from the forum?

No,no resignation. Just from this thread. So we can talk about him now behind his back?? :evil:

I can still read.

Dennis Noward

iainf72

Kohl has fessed up and admitted he used CERA.

So the test works, eh?

claudb

Read this and feel sorry for the poor lad ...

http://www.velonews.com/article/84319/kohl-admits-doping

iainf72

Hands up who believes he only doped once?

Anyone?

Anyone at all?

andyp

At least he admitted it.

LangerDan

So lets see - he crashes in mid-June and decides he needs assistance to do well in the Tour. In the 2-3 weeks between his crash and the Tour, he identifies the undetectable drug he requires, gets hold of it and administers it (or had it administered) in sufficient and correct doses to net a podium place in the Tour. Isn't he a wonder?

As Fr. Jack would say -" @rse biscuits"

Patrick1.0

He's just telling lies. He was taking the dope because he thought he could be more competitive on it it rather than not. Same reason all those who dope have.