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Had rear wheel off now gears out...

ducksonduckson Posts: 961
edited October 2008 in Workshop
I had the rear wheel off yesterday to fix a puncture and when put back on the chain was jumping/clicking on the 4-5 inner sprockets but on the outer and inner 2 sprockets it was generally fine....wheel was spinning true though, braking ok etc.

Has the fact i might of put it back on slightly different in that the skewer/quick release ends could of been tightened differently to before done this?
If I cant solve it by re-fitting the wheel would i be best just re-indexing each sprocket again one by one?

Its a 9 speed Campagnolo Mirage cassette (4-5yrs old) and has 2 front chainrings.
Cheers, Stu

Posts

  • Taking the wheel out will not change the gear settings but it may be coincidental and your kit sounds quite old-especially for campag!
  • bicebice Posts: 772
    stiff chain link? Run the chain backwards through the derailleur and see where it is cluncking or sticking out. You might have squeezed a link somehow taking the wheel off.
  • Hugh AHugh A Posts: 1,189
    Try loosening the quick release while the bike is upright, apply weight to the rear end to check it is fully seated/centred in the drop-outs and re-tighten. It could make a difference. Otherwise just fettle until indexing properly.
    I\'m sure I had one of those here somewhere
  • NuggsNuggs Posts: 1,804
    Are you sure you put the chain back on the same cog it was on when you took the wheel off?
  • When removing and replacing wheels in the past I have from time to time caught the barrell adjuster on the rear mech by accident which has done exactly the same sort of thing that you are describing may just require a slight adjust to put everything right again
  • ducksonduckson Posts: 961
    Nuggs wrote:
    Are you sure you put the chain back on the same cog it was on when you took the wheel off?

    Erm dunno....but it would/should just change to the correct sprocket should it not?


    Thanks for all the replies, i'm going to change the inner tube anyway (i had to get a 60mm valve tube from Halfords in an emergency on the way home and the metal casing of the valve is leaking air....doh!) and i'll see what its like when i refit the wheel. If i can fix it using the suggestions above i'll just re-index it.

    Re: indexing, do i do this for each sprocket in turn, I assume yes as it sets the cable tention for each point on the shifters ratchet?
    Cheers, Stu
  • alfabluealfablue Posts: 8,497
    set up the indexing for the middle sprocket, look at the alignment of the jockey wheel from behind the mech to help get it spot on. In theory, if it is right for the middle one it will be for the rest, assuming the limit screws are set right. For a more detailed approach see this
  • bicebice Posts: 772
    I wouldn't mess around with limit screws. If they were alright before, leave them alone. If something is clunking you should be able to see where on the chain it is clunking. Start from there. All you have done is removed the wheel!
  • ducksonduckson Posts: 961
    Limit screws should be ok, they were before!
    I did tweak the high gear limit screw when i got the bike cus on the outside sprocket it was clicking quite a bit...this seemed to cure it and the gearing for the other sprockets was fine still (as they should be).

    Maybe i should of mentioned that the bike has been sat for approx 4yrs unused, not sure if the cable was kept in a low gear and hence stretched a touch?
    Also the rear drop stay (i think this is what you call it) on the derailluer side has been aluminium welded as it was broken when my Dad got the frame (2nd hand)....seems like a sound job, it was done at an Aerospace company were we both work so you can expect the job should be reasonable!
    Cheers, Stu
  • bicebice Posts: 772
    Sorry< I have re-read more carefully. How you tighten up the wheel can affect its position as I discovered this morning on my 30 yr old Claude Butler, as I had some brake drag. I tipped it upside down and shifted it over to left a bit. Got brake drag on that side. Had another go, and it moved freely.

    Why not put it in one of the problem gears tip upside down and see what the chain is actually doing. Then try loosening and retightening the wheel to get its former alignment?

    This is assuming it is not a tired spring in the derailleur, which can also cause clunking.
  • alfabluealfablue Posts: 8,497
    I would tighten the wheel with it resting on the ground, it should fit in one positive place in the dropouts, doing it with the weight off the wheel allows it to be tightened off centre. Then adjust the brakes to clear the wheel (rather than adjusting the wheel to clear the brakes). As the OP's bike had some welding it could be that a dropout is not totally accurately aligned. It could also be that the indexing was set up with the wheel slightly askew. So it may now simply need re-indexing on the assumption that the wheel is now located properly. Also, due to the welding, the mech could be slightly out of alignment.
  • ducksonduckson Posts: 961
    Cheers, i'll have a play tonight. :)
    Cheers, Stu
  • ducksonduckson Posts: 961
    Well i had a play and reseated the wheel a few times, with the bike on the ground as well.
    The welding was basically the little portion of frame the derailleur sits on.
    I noticed that when i tightened the wheel up the flex moved the derailleur slightly, maybe 4-5mm.
    Anyway messed about with indexing for a good hour, got it looking good when going from small to large sprocket but as soon as i went the other way it was out again, clicking etc.
    So i started again and unclipped the cable from the clamp on the derailleur, it was at this point i recalled reading about how the cable should be clamped.....underneath the clamp rather than over the top and as mine was running over the top i made sure it was underneath now as per Parktools website:- http://www.parktool.com/images_inc/repa ... der101.jpg
    As soon as i'd done this i tested the gears out with a view to tweaking the indexing again hoping it would "stick" when going down as well as up the sprockets.
    Luckily it worked fine right away, no tweaking needed! 8)
    So god knows if the clamping arrangement was the problem or not but it seems to be ok now so could well of been, took it for a ride just up and down the drive changing sprockets either way as well (ie bit of load on the system)....no probs at all.
    Cheers, Stu
  • alfabluealfablue Posts: 8,497
    Hey - fab! Sorted.

    I forgot to mention, if you have an old / worn / gunky cable this will impair up-shifting (to the smaller sprockets) as this relies on the mech spring rather than your shifting effort - there can be quite a lot of resistance built up in an old or well used and weathered cable. Sounds like you are sorted, just for future reference. (By the way, I have been using fully sealed "Mudlover" gear cables for 2 years in all weathers and they stay fine with zero maintenance).
  • Meds1962Meds1962 Posts: 391
    I'd go with Hugh A's suggestion before you tinker with the gears, you could end up getting nowhere trying to fix a problem that does not exist.
    O na bawn i fel LA
  • ducksonduckson Posts: 961
    Meds1962 wrote:
    I'd go with Hugh A's suggestion before you tinker with the gears, you could end up getting nowhere trying to fix a problem that does not exist.

    Hey see my post from last night! (1st Oct)
    Cheers, Stu
  • ducksonduckson Posts: 961
    Well the gear indexing seems to have "gone" again....slipping and clicking this morning like mad. I've done about 30 miles since it was indexing right the other day.
    This was on the inner chainring which is use 99% of the time so i put it on the larger outer chainring and it seems alot better, not perfect but near as.

    What do you think would cause this effect?! :?
    Cheers, Stu
  • alfabluealfablue Posts: 8,497
    Is the cassette lockring tight? I have had these come loose (fixed with threadlock) and it leads to indexing problems.
  • ducksonduckson Posts: 961
    Dunno mate, where is this lockring exactly and could i check it if i have no tools specific for the job?

    Is it more likely there is a fault with the derailleur or the cable should be replaced (bike hasnt had much use but had been sat unused for 4-5yrs)?
    Cheers, Stu
  • alfabluealfablue Posts: 8,497
    duckson wrote:
    Dunno mate, where is this lockring exactly and could i check it if i have no tools specific for the job?

    Is it more likely there is a fault with the derailleur or the cable should be replaced (bike hasnt had much use but had been sat unused for 4-5yrs)?
    Oh sorry, I thought you had already done the cable - that is my number one suspect, check the cable. If you undo the mech end of the cable you will be able to tell if there is much friction, but after several years of no use I would expect it to be claggy.

    The lockring is a long shot - you can easily see if it is loose if the smallest 2 sprockets move laterally at all.

    This pictire shows the lock ring on a Shimano cassette and the tool to tighten it (as I say, lock ring is a long shot but easy to see if it is loose, you don't even need to remove the wheel, the sprockets will be loose).

    FR5_with_cste.jpg
  • ducksonduckson Posts: 961
    cheers mate, will check it later and report back.
    On the way home tonight even on the largest chainring it was playing up so went back to the smaller on the front and fought with it for 14 miles! not fun. :(

    You think its worth changing the cable then? any recommendations, i dont want to spend a fortune on what is a temporary bike until the company i work for get the cyclescheme setup (this side of xmas apparently).

    btw all i'd done last time is re-fasten the cable at the derailleur end and it was fine...maybe its slipping and not tight enough?
    Cheers, Stu
  • ducksonduckson Posts: 961
    Checked the 2 outer sprockets and all seems nice and tight, no movement.

    Thought i'd try starting from scratch and double check even the limit screws before doing any indexing again. Remembered i'd left the B-screw further out than what it was originally when i got the bike so i put that back (nearly fully screwed in).
    Then checked the limit screws and they needed some adjustment, particularly the larger sprocket end.
    Checked the indexing and it seemed fine with the bike upside down so took it for a spin down the driveway and down the road a few hundred yards and back....seemed sweet as again. :?
    Wierd but its seems ok again....see how long it lasts this time!! :lol:
    Cheers, Stu
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