alloy threaded steering tubes.

bigflangesmallsprocket

I've just found myself a nice carbon fork ( I hope, if the chap hasn't sold it elsewhere while I've been faffing on here). It's 1" threadless, alloy steerer. So, in order to try to keep some of the character of the frame, would it be possible to get it threaded (I believe some older models of carbon forks were threaded), also, to stack it about 1/2 an inch or so higher. I'm assuming that this will be less strain on the front end than having a load of stem showing

Anybody any experience with threaded alloy steerers, or stacking? I've seen lots of pics of frames showing stacked steerers and I'm guessing they lend a little more strength to quill stems, which I've read can fatigue when used at full height limit.

balthazar

Well, I'm confused. Call me naive, but I've never heard of stacked headsets, of the old-fashioned kind. Do you have any pictures? I can't imagine how it all goes.

Threadless is the best in functional terms. If you're craving that graceful quill hidden clamp look, then I imagine a machine shop from the yellow pages would cut your threads. Quill stems are a bit more likely to seize in steerers, and the overall assembly is a bit more flexible, but it all works perfectly well, even at surprising extensions (check Rivendell). In any case, this is about appearances, isn't it?

John.T

Never cut threads in a steerer. They are not designed for that and could fail. Also a quill would probably not fit down it. Not sure what you mean by 'stacking' but if the steerer is not long enough fit a steerer extender. Parkers do one for about £10. You will still need spacers though.

bill57

You'll lose the "character" the minute you fit a carbon fork. What you propose is about the same as buying a nice car, then attaching a horse to retain the "character".

bigflangesmallsprocket

Mixed bag of replies there!

balthazar. What I'm talking about is a lot like using spacers on a threadless steerer. I've seen Frames with horizontal top-tubes, and quill fitting headsets, that have a slightly longer head-tube, or to get the same higher effect, fit spacers (ahead style, but actually IN the headset) into the top-race part of the headset, thus bringing about the same effect. Obviously this requires a slightly longer steerer as well. I assume this is done for a number of reasons: a preference for more traditional frame-shape, coupled with a desire to get some of the supposed advantages of longer seatposts; advancing age (and less flexible back, like myself!) but a wish to keep the same frame, and (again like myself) use of a quality frame, that you wish to keep, but without stem sticking out mega high (I have read that this can cause excess flex of stem). And yes, I admit it is about appearances, but if I don't spend a little dosh on threading, then I'll have to spend probably more getting a suitable aheadset and then an ahead stem as well.

John.T. thats exactly what I was trying to find out, if it can be done, though I had assumed the answer to be very probably yes as I thought they were exactly the same measurement. I think my answer to balthazar answers your question regarding what I mean by stacking. Regarding steerer length, it IS long enough but I was considering the stacking in order to reduce flex in my quill stem. By extender I'm assuming you mean an ahead item, which was exactly what I was trying to avoid. But seems from your reply that I've not much choice in the matter.

bill57. Shouldn't that be buying a nice horse, then attaching a car to it, regarding updating traditional transport? What I'm trying to do is to make the cosmetic change as minimal as possible . I do agree that carbon forks will look different, however, some are much more bulky looking than others, mine aren't of the boxy windtunnel aero variety.

By spraying both frame and forks, and keeping a quill stem, the idea was to minimise visual change, whilst improving ride and reducing the grief I get from my dodgy wrist. I can just about stuff 25c tyres and m/g in the back end, but the forks wont have it. It's a decent frame, and I can't afford to buy the one I really want, so 1/2 price carbon forks + respray should get me a good ride....oooooh missus! Never mind, if Johns right I'd better start saving for an aheadset and stem....bugger

bigflangesmallsprocket

This is along the lines of what I mean't by stacking. courtesy of Mr Brown

Bugly

you are going to put a lot of leverage on the steerer - also I would be concerned the wedge on the quill stem may damagethe steerer, Personally would not do it but if I was to, I would talk to a mech engineer rather then a cycle forum asked to provide an opinion sight unseen, before I trusted my life to it.

Good luck

balthazar

Bigfss

Thanks for posting that explanatory picture. I understand the principle now, but I still suggest that stacking is unnecessary - a solution to an imagined problem. Very long (tall) quill stems have been used for years and are quite satisfactory. The problems inherent in this interface would remain if stacked as in the picture, but are solved in any case by the superior threadless design.

I don't mean to play devil's advocate, but it strikes me that your best solution is to keep your existing forks, whatever they were, and fit a tall quill stem. If you would also like a more comfortable ride, then perhaps some larger tyres. Or, accept that with carbon forks comes more modernising, and change to a threadless system, perhaps with a discreet silver stem which has some kind of internal fixing. Hybrids of this sort, which seem simple, often end up being the most monumental headaches.

DavidBelcher

Another thing I'd add to the existing feedback - with alloy threaded forks, don't over-tighten your quill expander; it may cause a bulge in the steering column and possible failure as a result if the bulge eventually ruptures.

David

John.T

The first thing to check is the internal diameter of the steerer tube. It may not fit the quill stem so all bets would be off at the first hurdle. Your best and safest option would be to leave the steerer as long as you need it and fit an A-head set spacers and stem. It is by far the strongest setup and if you don't mind the look of a 'flipped' stem is even stiffer.

bigflangesmallsprocket

It does seem that the way to go is threadless, in which case there would be no probs regarding steering tube height, the issue being strictly aesthetic...well, almost strictly, I was also thinking: cost of cutting and threading the tube, against cost of new aheadset and reasonable quality stem.

I stated the problem of tire-fitting on my first post. The forks only take 23c with guards, but, I've not had a reply from an email I sent last night to this chap, so....am now thinking scroogewise....along the lines of fitting a 25c, but cutting the mudguard down ala raceblade, at the fork crown, which should allow it to fit...just. This might be look a tad odd, but actually still give a lot more dirt protection than raceblades. This bodge would save me oooh, £80+ I reckon, just about the price of a paint-job...decisions, decisions....also a big chunk towards a new pair of wheels.....

balthazar

bigflangesmallsprocket wrote:

I stated the problem of tire-fitting on my first post.

Apologies.

Perhaps also consider some sort of padding under your handlebar tape, I think there is something sold specially for it or ingenuity may come up with a freebie solution. I'd be interested to hear if you get anywhere with having the steerer threaded, by the way.

aracer

bigflangesmallsprocket wrote:

I stated the problem of tire-fitting on my first post. The forks only take 23c with guards, but, I've not had a reply from an email I sent last night to this chap, so....am now thinking scroogewise....along the lines of fitting a 25c, but cutting the mudguard down ala raceblade, at the fork crown, which should allow it to fit...just.

Sounds like your best option. If your only problem is clearance at the fork crown, then have you already tried removing the crown fitting and using zip ties - that should give a few mm without having to hack the guard?

bigflangesmallsprocket

aracer, I've come across a couple of little probs in this area. I fitted 25c's to the front wheel last night and clearance for a guard is VERY tight, on top of that, my old campag caliper brakes actually push the guard down slightly, so even attempting a flush-fitting with the crown head, the brake makes that a no-no. I think I'm just MAKING problems for myself here! Originally I was hoping to get this frame fitted with guard and pannier bosses and resprayed. It's a nice frame, but ultimately it seems that no matter what I do is going to be a compromise of one sort or another if I try to push on. So, really I've got to make a choice as to what I really want in this frame, what it's actually capable of, and what I'm prepared to put up with; money IS an issue, and most of my choices seem to involve spending more money...changing forks (and all the rest)/changing brake-set/ruining my m-g's or buying raceblades.

I think the long term solution is obvious....new frame, which is a shame as I'm growing fond of this one, but it's obviously not really suitable for my long term plans.

peanut

don't give up yet sprocket this is just starting to get interesting. There is always a way to achieve what we want if we just search long enough. If you are attached to your old frame as I am to one of mine I understand completly.

Your cheapest option is probably to source another fork on ebay with longer fork steerer tube and mudguard clearance . Solves both problems at once.If you are only looking to shim your steerer tube about 1" or so I can't see that being a problem with a quill stem. It will have the same insertion depth but with a small extension of the steerer above the frames head tube.
Measure the thickness of the plain steerer you have and see how it compares with a threaded fork if you want to cut a thread on yours. Any local engineering shop can thread it for you. I've got a 1" die but no holder
:roll:

bigflangesmallsprocket

I had considered that, peanut, theres a nice looking Bianchi fork (of indeterminate steel) thats been floating round for a while on ebay 'buy it now', with no takers. I do have an old 531 raleigh in a hell of a state, which actually takes 25's and gaurds, but again no eyelets, and the bottle bosses are knackered too. I've used p-clips on both of these frames, but I hate them (the clips,l not the frames!) as I find they tend to move about, and its easy to knock them out of line, a real pain. At one time I was considering renovating the Raleigh and getting full bosses put on that, but you can easily spend nearly as much money on a frame (and the chrome on those raleigh forks is dead) if you get carried away, as it would cost to buy a new one. I can't really afford to do either! I suppose I could drag that out and make do during the winter, but the plan, IF/WHEN I get round to it, is to declutter and sell some bits to help pay for the respray. Of course, in my dreams I'm riding a nice Bob |Jackson, but that I'd want rear brakes/toptube guides/pannier bosses if I was going to spend that kind of money, and those extras would then make it a custom, so even MORE expense.....and I'd guess, not having experienced 631, that my 653 would equal the ride and be as light/lighter(?), so, a big layout, just to get some mudguards for 25c's...and the track dropout pose of course!

I've never been good at making those decisions, and I'm a natural miser, but I also have taste beyond my means....not a good combination :?

Riding with my new 25c tyres, I've also found that the back end is VERY tight, though at a casual inspection it seems to just about accept it. I was just about ok with a half worn 25c continental gator on the rear, but fitting a new rubino pro seems have been just a tad too much. It spins ok if I just lift the frame up and spin the wheel, but on the road you can hear it complain over bumps and when I give it wellie, with the guard, and possibly frame, flexing.

I'll have to have another look at it, and see if I can tighten the guard into the ali bridge wotsit, and push it up further to get a little more clearance. If that works, then I could then simply massacre the front guard as suggested recently, 'raceblading' it. Not a perfect solution, but if it works.

bigflangesmallsprocket

by gum, that were a long post

peanut

bigflangesmallsprocket wrote:

by gum, that were a long post

breathhhhhheeeeeeeeeee and deep breath and holdddddddddd


653 is a beautifully light frame but you need to add a carbon fork to make it truly light or at least an alu fork. I have a lovely old 80's Ribble I use now as a hack.
Plenty still on ebay for shirt buttons ie 25.00 or so.