Mavic Aksium wheels for poor quality roads ?
Im having hell on earth with my Shimano RS20 wheelset, the roads i ride on are really poor quality and im in broken rear spoke hell , a guy here suggested the aksium wheels for improved strength and durability over crummy roads.
Have others found the aksium wheels to be more durable and what makes them less prone to spoke breakage than my Rs20`s ?
Also, will Ribble sell me a rear wheel on its own rather than having me buy a set, i only need the rear ?
http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/productdetail.asp?productcatalogue=MAVIWHFR775
Have others found the aksium wheels to be more durable and what makes them less prone to spoke breakage than my Rs20`s ?
Also, will Ribble sell me a rear wheel on its own rather than having me buy a set, i only need the rear ?
http://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/productdetail.asp?productcatalogue=MAVIWHFR775
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I'm not familiar with Shimano wheels but I have seen a few mavics with broken hubs from where the straight pull spokes seat in the hub.
If the roads are that bad I'd probably save up and go for hand built wheels of a midrange quality.0 -
Your rear wheel that bad JimmyK? You've only just got them haven't you? It's only one broken spoke right?
And yes you can buy them in singles too.0 -
yeah, the coastal roads where i ride are woeful , some roads are bumpity bumpity and if you are hitting them at 20mph...........rear spokes find it tough, though no probs with front wheel.
I really need a rear wheel that can withstand the bumps.
Jimmy0 -
I've had a pair of Aksiums. I broke two rear spokes on two different occasions. Problem is it took ages for my LBS to get replacement spokes. And then after two years the rear hub collapsed.
So I would say don't bother. Unless you want to buy a pair every year. After all they are budget wheels.
If you are heavy on spokes then you would be better off getting some 32 spoke handbuilt wheels
I still ride a pair 8 year old Campag Record on Mavic CX33s. They're bombproof. But make sure they are built by a builder with a good reputation.0 -
does anybody here avoid certain roads deliberately because of risk of spoke damage to wheel(s) ?
JimmyK0 -
I've been running Aksiums for 18 months - been fine - just one small tweak of the spokes so far, shortly after purchase - no problems at all with them.
If you can, stretch to Ksyrium Equipe's - about £220-£240 - again another great set of wheels - I've ridden these very hard on my best bike - cobbled climbs, poor surfaced descents etc - not touched them once - running 100% true in 12 months so far !
Both are very tough, although handbuilts will be better - get a good hub / Ultegra or Chorus as a miuimum, and Mavic Open Pro's or CXP 33 if you want a bit more aero.
I've run Open 4's (like the Open Pro) for years and they've been great, although retired one set last year as the rims were pretty worn, sold another set with Mavic 501 hubs (screw on freewheel) on ebay a while ago.0 -
JimmyK wrote:Have others found the aksium wheels to be more durable and what makes them less prone to spoke breakage than my Rs20`s ?
Don't like them myself - the rear went rapidly out of true on the bumpy roads around here, and even though I managed to straighten it out myself it slowly drifts out of true again over time. The front was replaced a couple of months ago with a wheel I built myself, which is much tougher and lighter and stays round, and the rear will follow soon. If my first ever wheel is so much better than the Aksium then they can't be that good!
Phekdra0 -
No problems with Aksiums here, six months over poor quality roads and wheels still perfectly true and no broken spokes0
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Coming up on 12 months of abuse for my Aksiums and they've been bombproof. Would buy again for the winter bike.0
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what is it about the axsiums then that make them stronger on the rear wheel than a RS20 ?
Jimmy0 -
I don't know much about prebuilt wheels, but I know that well built ordinary wheels are more than capable of surviving all normal roads, and a lot worse, for a very long time, without anything breaking. For this reason, I'd recommend a pair of well built traditional handbuilt wheels, if there is really no way of making your existing wheels good and you must replace them.
Even with this advice comes a minefield, however: out of the pan into the fire, so to speak. Many wheel builders miss procedures which are critical to a durable wheel, leaving the customer with a troublesome wheel which is never truly reliable, as nobody ever properly diagnoses the problem. The only way I can think of to be sure of a good wheel is to build it yourself, following the instructions in "The Bicycle Wheel". Much as I enjoy an evening with a glass of wine, some spokes, and other bits and bobs, I accept that I may be a little peculiar in that respect, and wheel building just may not be your liquor.
In that - more likely - case, I suggest that you contact Pete Matthews or Paul Hewitt, both of whom are well known builders and I assume will be personally accountable if problems occur.
For reference, potholes and such don't break spokes: they are already broken. They are fatigue failures, invisible cracks accross the spoke, which finally gave in with the momentary higher load cycle. If you pulled a new - good - spoke to the point that it failed, it would fail dynamically, stretching, and necking down over an area before breaking.
The main important process, if you've made it this far, is stress-relieving: a critical but subtle procedure, properly explained here:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/stre ... eving.html
Perhaps your existing wheels can be stress-relieved, by somebody who understands the procedure?0 -
balthazar wrote:I don't know much about prebuilt wheels, but I know that well built ordinary wheels are more than capable of surviving all normal roads, and a lot worse, for a very long time, without anything breaking. For this reason, I'd recommend a pair of well built traditional handbuilt wheels, if there is really no way of making your existing wheels good and you must replace them.
Even with this advice comes a minefield, however: out of the pan into the fire, so to speak. Many wheel builders miss procedures which are critical to a durable wheel, leaving the customer with a troublesome wheel which is never truly reliable, as nobody ever properly diagnoses the problem. The only way I can think of to be sure of a good wheel is to build it yourself, following the instructions in "The Bicycle Wheel". Much as I enjoy an evening with a glass of wine, some spokes, and other bits and bobs, I accept that I may be a little peculiar in that respect, and wheel building just may not be your liquor.
In that - more likely - case, I suggest that you contact Pete Matthews or Paul Hewitt, both of whom are well known builders and I assume will be personally accountable if problems occur.
For reference, potholes and such don't break spokes: they are already broken. They are fatigue failures, invisible cracks accross the spoke, which finally gave in with the momentary higher load cycle. If you pulled a new - good - spoke to the point that it failed, it would fail dynamically, stretching, and necking down over an area before breaking.
The main important process, if you've made it this far, is stress-relieving: a critical but subtle procedure, properly explained here:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/stre ... eving.html
Perhaps your existing wheels can be stress-relieved, by somebody who understands the procedure?
This is a great post! Educational and not patronising at all, nice one!0 -
The thing is, that pothole isn't even a momentary higher load cycle - potholes will decrease the tension in the bottom spokes, rather than increase any spoke tension.balthazar wrote:For reference, potholes and such don't break spokes: they are already broken. They are fatigue failures, invisible cracks accross the spoke, which finally gave in with the momentary higher load cycle.0 -
aracer wrote:
The thing is, that pothole isn't even a momentary higher load cycle - potholes will decrease the tension in the bottom spokes, rather than increase any spoke tension.balthazar wrote:For reference, potholes and such don't break spokes: they are already broken. They are fatigue failures, invisible cracks accross the spoke, which finally gave in with the momentary higher load cycle.
Yes, of course. By "load cycle" I meant the entire spread of tension, from peak to trough; the lower trough results in a larger overall cycle. Not well written at all, in retrospect, but I thought 'good enough' for the purpose. Thanks for clarifying what really happens, in any case.0 -
I was told today by bike specialists that I should lower the tyre pressure that I normally ride at i.e 120 psi. down to the max rated for the tyres i use i.e continental ultragator skin being 100 psi.
guy at lbs said using 100psi should alleviate any spoke breakage issues.
what do you make of this, he says the RS20 are performance orientaed and therefore lightweight and 120 psi doesnt leave much room for shock absorption.
Jimmy0 -
If they're performance orientated then they should be happy at higher psi's! Most people who race pump their tyres up to 120psi.0
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Somewhat ironic user name, given I doubt many pros pump their tyres up to 120psi for PR! In fact I'm very unconvinced by the idea that most racers pump their tyres to that pressure - that seems to be reserved for wannabees.Barry Roubaix wrote:If they're performance orientated then they should be happy at higher psi's! Most people who race pump their tyres up to 120psi.0 -
Barry Roubaix wrote:If they're performance orientated then they should be happy at higher psi's! Most people who race pump their tyres up to 120psi.
I dont go racing and the roads I ride on are as far from racing smooth as you can imagine, they are the usual patchwork quilts with bumps and things, would you say the lowering down to 100psi would help with spoke breakages ?
jimmy0 -
Barry Roubaix wrote:If they're performance orientated then they should be happy at higher psi's! Most people who race pump their tyres up to 120psi.
Unless you're racing on very smooth tarmac I wouldn't go much above 100-110psi myself, and in the wet more like 90-100psi. For clinchers of course, I'm probably around 140psi on tubs for my track bike0 -
I've ridden Askiums since December over our atrocious roads and only now has the rear just gone slightly out of true. So far, other than that, no problems. I only put in 100 psi (I'm a light rider - 10 st 7Ibs).0
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aracer wrote:
Somewhat ironic user name, given I doubt many pros pump their tyres up to 120psi for PR! In fact I'm very unconvinced by the idea that most racers pump their tyres to that pressure - that seems to be reserved for wannabees.Barry Roubaix wrote:If they're performance orientated then they should be happy at higher psi's! Most people who race pump their tyres up to 120psi.
That's funny - when I started racing twenty years ago everyone used tubs which people pumped to high psi's. Even when I'm TTing these days I will pump high pressure Veloflex's up to 120. OK if its raining I'll let air out but my point was that if the wheel is supposed to be 'performance' orientated then it should be designed and built with higher psi's in mind.
So in my opinion Jimmy K's LBS are talking rubbish.
BTW for training/ general riding 100psi is fine - gives you the balance of comfort and low rolling resistance. However if the roads are greasy then you could let some air out.0 -
JimmyK wrote:I was told today by bike specialists that I should lower the tyre pressure that I normally ride at i.e 120 psi. down to the max rated for the tyres i use i.e continental ultragator skin being 100 psi.
guy at lbs said using 100psi should alleviate any spoke breakage issues.
what do you make of this, he says the RS20 are performance orientaed and therefore lightweight and 120 psi doesnt leave much room for shock absorption.
Jimmy
This advice is erroneous. The effect of tyre pressure on spoke tension (and consequently, wheel durability) is insignificant. Even if tyre pressure mattered, then the principle would still stand, that road wheels which are incapable of withstanding the recommended pressures of their tyres are not fit for sale.
You should be free to choose whichever pressure you prefer, as long as it falls within the tyre's range as dictated on it's sidewall.0 -
balthazar wrote:JimmyK wrote:I
Jimmy
This advice is erroneous. The effect of tyre pressure on spoke tension (and consequently, wheel durability) is insignificant. Even if tyre pressure mattered, then the principle would still stand, that road wheels which are incapable of withstanding the recommended pressures of their tyres are not fit for sale.
You should be free to choose whichever pressure you prefer, as long as it falls within the tyre's range as dictated on it's sidewall.
I was riding at 120 psi and conti gatorskins say max 100 psi, could this be attributed to spoke breakage then ?
Makes me think about the panaracers rated at 160 psi, or would that be a spoke wrecking pressure if the roads were bumpy, even though the tyre has it as its max ?
Jimmy0 -
JimmyK wrote:
I was riding at 120 psi and conti gatorskins say max 100 psi, could this be attributed to spoke breakage then ?
Makes me think about the panaracers rated at 160 psi, or would that be a spoke wrecking pressure if the roads were bumpy, even though the tyre has it as its max ?
Jimmy
No. Tyre pressure has no effect on spoke durability. You've been given misleading info by your shop guy. The problem is elsewhere.0 -
I think that the idea of lower tyre pressures is to reduce the peaks in the loads transferred through thr spokes, i.e. more deformation of tyres, less deformation of spokes. That's consistent with the notion that spoke failures are fatigue related.
The problem is that if you lower tyre pressures on bad road surfaces, you end up getting pinch flats or, worse still, denting the rim.
Most people end up with a favoured tyre pressure based on the roads they ride, their weight, their riding style and the bike they are riding. For that reason, if 120psi is the right pressure for you, I'd stick with it.
The handbuilt wheel has to be the way to go, if only because if any one of the parts needs replacing; freewheel, hub, spokes, rim; then its easy and cheap to do so.
What are people's thoughts on the likes of M-Wheels - prebuilt wheels from standard bits.0
