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US national RR champs (spoiler)

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  • leguapeleguape Posts: 986
    cougie wrote:
    Jan isnt in the sport now though is he ? Tyler still is - tainting it.

    If he's never admitted to doping - why should we think that he's still not doping ?
    All of that 'I believe' rubbish.... Pah. Sooner he retires the better.

    Aye the fat disco biscuit muncher is siting at home on his several million euros and all his wins still against his name and nothing in the record books to say he doped. I think that's far more of a taint on the sport than someone being caught, serving their ban and returning to the sport, fronting up to the idiotic moralising. Not sloping off into their luxurious retirement with their palmares intact.

    Why should we think he's still not doping? Well because Rock runs an athlete passport program in partnership with Paul Scott of Scott Analytics, formerly of ACE. Astana, Garmin, Colmubia and CSC are the only ones with anything similar stated for the record aren't they?

    The only thing Hamilton can fairly be accused of now is being foolish in his own defence.
  • moray_gubmoray_gub Posts: 3,328
    iainf72 wrote:
    Jez mon wrote:
    Hamilton OTOH, has turned his cheating into a profit making venture with all the "I believe" sh!te. OK he may well be clean now, but he still thinks of himself as an olympic champion.

    But he is the Olympic champion. You can even look it up
    .

    He was the Olympic champion he isnt anymore, after all Seb Coe is not the Olympic champion at 1500mtrs these days is he.

    cheers
    MG
    Gasping - but somehow still alive !
  • iainf72iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    Funny old sport.

    A guy who got caught, attempted to defend himself and eventually had to serve a ban, returns to a minor team racing in the US and he "taints" the sports.

    Meanwhile, we've got riders in the top 5 in the Tour de France with links to a blood doping clinic in Austria, Silence.Lotto thinking that using Museeuw bikes would be a good idea and lets not forget all of the people riding for "clean" teams now who only a couple of years ago were up to their eyeballs in dope.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • KléberKléber Posts: 6,842
    Exactly. Hamilton is US champ but Valv.Piti is Spanish campeon. They both used the same doctor, both live in denial, but only one served a ban.
  • Kléber wrote:
    Exactly. Hamilton is US champ but Valv.Piti is Spanish campeon. They both used the same doctor, both live in denial, but only one served a ban.

    It's just like riding a downhill in the wet. Some fall off and go out of the race, while others with better luck and "bike handling" skills, finish the race.

    They are all playing the game of doping Russian roulette. Tyler caught the bullet. So too did Heras, Rasmussen, Ricco etc. Basso, shot himself with a blank. :roll: Piepoli got hit by a Riccochet! :lol:

    Valverde, Contador and the rest, past and present, either continually draw an empty chamber or, in some cases, were warned that a bullet was coming their way.......
    "Science is a tool for cheaters". An anonymous French PE teacher.
  • So to summarise, there are no big name riders in the sport who aren't "under suspicion" or "taking something"...

    Great outlook then.
  • KléberKléber Posts: 6,842
    iainf72 wrote:
    But he is the Olympic champion. You can even look it up
    Only thanks to a cocked up B-sample, his A-sample was dodgy but someone put his B-sample in the lab freezer, not the fridge and the sample was destroyed. :roll:
  • iainf72iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    Kléber wrote:
    iainf72 wrote:
    But he is the Olympic champion. You can even look it up
    Only thanks to a cocked up B-sample, his A-sample was dodgy but someone put his B-sample in the lab freezer, not the fridge and the sample was destroyed. :roll:

    Well, you can't be sure of that. The B sample may have overturned the A, eh? :wink:

    But rules are rules.

    Interesting that the same thing showed up in the Vuelta because I remember reading something by one of those blood doping expert guys who said the window for detecting this stuff is very small - Days as opposed to the weeks or months which was bandied about.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • DaveyLDaveyL Posts: 5,167
    Hopefully we can apply the same principle to Armstrong's '99 urine samples then....

    Interesting about the blood transfusion - that's not how it's called in Jeremy Whittle's book. They knew it would still be detectable in his system so when he showed up at the Vuelta, they nabbed him again. Or is that a re-writing of history? I can't remember how it went down at the time.

    The test is so sensitive that it can detect a teaspoon of someone else's blood in your system, so if he did indeed get '800 ml of packed red blood cells' (as our friend aurelio is so fond of saying) then there could well have still been enough in his system to catch him.
    Le Blaireau (1)
  • iainf72iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    DaveyL wrote:

    The test is so sensitive that it can detect a teaspoon of someone else's blood in your system, so if he did indeed get '800 ml of packed red blood cells' (as our friend aurelio is so fond of saying) then there could well have still been enough in his system to catch him.

    After the Vino incident at the Tour last year ProCycling interviewed a blood doping expert (I think) who said it's window is not that great for detection. The reason they'd tested Vino for it was they'd had a tip off he was using someone elses blood which seems to indicate they don't usually do it.

    That's just as I recall it anyway. And I like to remember things my own way not neccessarily the way they happened.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • Jez monJez mon Posts: 3,809
    The point is, despite being banned, Tyler NEVER admitted anything whatsoever. David Millar's admission, doesn't make him innocent, BUT, at least he admitted he'd done wrong. Tyler Hamilton started spurting BS all over the place and selling stuff with "I beleive Tyler" all over it.

    Even Ricardo Ricco came clean.

    Some big name riders, who aren't under CURRENT suspision.

    erm

    Cavendish
    Schlecks?
    Chinny (although has been in dogey teams)
    Linus Gerdeman
    Thor H
    Evans :roll:
    Contador

    OK so there are probably more, but these are off the top of my head. Do I really beleive CSCs anti doping regime, not sure, but I know that I really want to.
    You live and learn. At any rate, you live
  • ^^ Cav? I thought he was the first guy on that UCI Passport Scheme? Why all the suspicion then?
  • iainf72iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    Evil_Cod wrote:
    ^^ Cav? I thought he was the first guy on that UCI Passport Scheme? Why all the suspicion then?

    No, he was the first one to sign up to "Commitment to a new cycling" - AKA Aigle Andrex.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • Jez monJez mon Posts: 3,809
    I said aren't under suspicion, at first, but the only big name I could think of was Cav, so I added current and thought of a load of other riders, some of which look to have dogey pasts.
    You live and learn. At any rate, you live
  • KléberKléber Posts: 6,842
    edited September 2008
  • iainf72iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    Jez mon wrote:

    Even Ricardo Ricco came clean.

    To taking CERA after than Giro because he was tired. In terms of confessions it's a bit like a Millar or Basso one rather than a Bella Jorg full disclosure type of thing.
    Jez mon wrote:

    Some big name riders, who aren't under CURRENT suspision.

    erm

    Cavendish
    Schlecks?
    Chinny (although has been in dogey teams)
    Linus Gerdeman
    Thor H
    Evans :roll:
    Contador

    Schlecks were tested over and over by the AFLD, so was Chinny. Read into that what you will.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • Jez monJez mon Posts: 3,809
    TBF, with the stringent testing apparently going on at Astana, I'm going to say that despite a erm, suspicious past, they are not on hot juice for this year. The top riders in CSC have been tested tons, but not caught, so either they are innocent, and doping on something which unlike CERA really is undetectable (I know CERA doesn't turn up on every test, but the law of averages suggests that they would have been caught by now).

    Sure Ricco said the bare minumum. But it's better than saying...there's a huge error in the test, I'm clean, it's the rementents of a dead twin, dehydration, someone spiked my food, there's an international anti-italian conspiracy lead by the french. etc.
    You live and learn. At any rate, you live
  • Jez mon wrote:
    I said aren't under suspicion, at first, but the only big name I could think of was Cav, so I added current and thought of a load of other riders, some of which look to have dogey pasts.

    Oh yeh- oops.


    And why is Cancellara under suspicion anyway? :(
  • iainf72iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    Evil_Cod wrote:
    And why is Cancellara under suspicion anyway? :(

    1) Rode for Feretti
    2) Coached by Cecchini
    3) His astonishing performances
    4) The French obviously saw something worth following up
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • FJSFJS Posts: 4,820
    Jez mon wrote:
    I said aren't under suspicion, at first, but the only big name I could think of was Cav.
    Because he's British maybe?

    For one, he was part of a very suspiciously dominant British track team at the Olympics, ooooooooohhhhoooo.

    Just kidding. But only just. That would have been enough to be put in the suspicious category if say Russia or China would have been that dominant.... The bottom line is that we don't know, and you'd go completely paranoid if you follow every suspicion and make that your perspective when watching races.
  • Jez monJez mon Posts: 3,809
    FJS wrote:
    Jez mon wrote:
    I said aren't under suspicion, at first, but the only big name I could think of was Cav.
    Because he's British maybe?

    For one, he was part of a very suspiciously dominant British track team at the Olympics, ooooooooohhhhoooo.

    Just kidding. But only just. That would have been enough to be put in the suspicious category if say Russia or China would have been that dominant.... The bottom line is that we don't know, and you'd go completely paranoid if you follow every suspicion and make that your perspective when watching races.

    For sure because he's British, but also a BIG name rider even in places like Belguim. He's also not a big part of the Track Team. For sure he's a world champion in the Madison, but most of his season is spent on the Road with Team Columbia. He is the most dominant rider in a team that are at least doing some thing in trying to be clean. Whether it's really working or not is imposible to say. But it's a better attitude than American Beef's
    You live and learn. At any rate, you live
  • DaveyLDaveyL Posts: 5,167
    iainf72 wrote:
    DaveyL wrote:

    The test is so sensitive that it can detect a teaspoon of someone else's blood in your system, so if he did indeed get '800 ml of packed red blood cells' (as our friend aurelio is so fond of saying) then there could well have still been enough in his system to catch him.

    After the Vino incident at the Tour last year ProCycling interviewed a blood doping expert (I think) who said it's window is not that great for detection. The reason they'd tested Vino for it was they'd had a tip off he was using someone elses blood which seems to indicate they don't usually do it.

    That's just as I recall it anyway. And I like to remember things my own way not neccessarily the way they happened.

    I thought the reason they tested Vino was because he won the time trial. And Kashechkin was tested while on holiday. If the window for testing was really that small, it'd imply he had a homologous transfusion while on holiday. Now, I know some of these guys are seriously dialled into their doping regimes, but that's maybe going a bit too far...
    Le Blaireau (1)
  • iainf72iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    I'll ask Dan F.
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
  • iainf72iainf72 Posts: 15,784
    Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.
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