Does anyone think Contador is over-rated?
I notice Procycling have led with an article about how Contador would have won the tour. I've also noticed a few people on here talk about how Contador would've wiped the floor with everyone at this year's tour.
Am I missing something? Admittedly I didn't see any of the Giro but in last year's Tour he seemed to have Rasmussen to thank for most of the time he gained on Evans. If the 2007 race had been run with the 2008 points system, Evans would have won.
So where is all this coming from?
Am I missing something? Admittedly I didn't see any of the Giro but in last year's Tour he seemed to have Rasmussen to thank for most of the time he gained on Evans. If the 2007 race had been run with the 2008 points system, Evans would have won.
So where is all this coming from?
Scottish and British...and a bit French
0
Comments
-
dulldave wrote:I notice Procycling have led with an article about how Contador would have won the tour. I've also noticed a few people on here talk about how Contador would've wiped the floor with everyone at this year's tour.
Am I missing something? Admittedly I didn't see any of the Giro but in last year's Tour he seemed to have Rasmussen to thank for most of the time he gained on Evans. If the 2007 race had been run with the 2008 points system, Evans would have won.
So where is all this coming from?
He's good, but not in a class of his own as many people seem to think, in my opinion.0 -
-
I don't think he's overrated i think he is the best stage racer just now but i think the top percentage of riders are closer in ability now than we've seen in a few years0
-
Regardless of whether you buy his vacation claim, he and most guys on his team clearly did not have the ability to fully prepare for the Giro. I'd say they got maybe 80% (meaning they had about 90% of the usual training but got the go-ahead so last minute that all the riders had to fly in from all around the world with no time to recce the stages or get aclimatized). Yet, he still won. And he's a better TT than most give him credit for and he can attack and follow attacks really well in the mountains. Add on top of that one of the two strongest teams in all of cycling and clearly the best tactician in Johan and he's gonna be one of the dominant few for the next 5 years.0
-
I don't think he's over-rated. He's as good a rider as any of the top boys were this year, with the added ability to repeatedly attack on the same climb. A few times on last year's tour, there was him and Rassmussen, and they both kept attacking each other on the same time. If he'd been on the tour this year, none of the top boys would have been able to respond.0
-
Do you think he would have had this ability this year, what with Astana having Damsgaard's monitoring program in place and the AFLD target testing?nathanbloke wrote:I don't think he's over-rated. He's as good a rider as any of the top boys were this year, with the added ability to repeatedly attack on the same climb. A few times on last year's tour, there was him and Rassmussen, and they both kept attacking each other on the same time. If he'd been on the tour this year, none of the top boys would have been able to respond.
I don't.0 -
andyp good point, it would have been could to compare. I don't think we saw anything like the type of verocity of attacks this year as last.Scottish and British...and a bit French0
-
Let see it in the Vuelta vs Sastre (confirmed) and Evans (if he dare to go)If you like Flandes, Roubaix or Eroica, you would like GP Canal de Castilla, www.gpcanaldecastilla.com0
-
Well he did well at the Giro without having had any time to prepare for it - so thats pretty amazing.0
-
The old "I was lying on the beach" line. I think "I was lying through my teeth" is better, as anyone will tell you most pros will ride every day during the season, so a beach day for Contador probably meant a few hours training each day, that after a run of wins in April and May.cougie wrote:Well he did well at the Giro without having had any time to prepare for it - so thats pretty amazing.0 -
I think A Schleck could be better than Contador in the future, he's been brought on slowly but surely and when everything is fine, he looks comfortable in rides. So long as he can improve his TTing, he looks like he could well be a Grand Tour winer.
Last year, Contador would not have gained the time he needed, IMO, without working with Rasmussen at key stages. I can't help but feel that this year Contador should have changed teams in order to defend his jersey. I'm sure that there would be a team happy to have the defending tour champ on the books.You live and learn. At any rate, you live0 -
Will Basso be riding TdF next year,and if so how do folks feel Contador/Sastre/Schleck/Evans etc are going to get on against him?
0 -
-
no, Contador is really good, really really good...he will win many GTs0
-
redddraggon wrote:pictit wrote:Will Basso be riding TdF next year,and if so how do folks feel Contador/Sastre/Schleck/Evans etc are going to get on against him?
Haven't Liquigas already said they aren't going to be bringing him to the Tour?
Yep. Mores the pity.
ASO should say "yes, come, we will test you every day".Fckin' Quintana … that creep can roll, man.0 -
We'd have said the same about Ullrich 10 years ago and again for Fignon 15 years before that.Dave_1 wrote:no, Contador is really good, really really good...he will win many GTs
I agree that Contador is really good and has time on his side but it's not a given that he'll win again and again and again in GTs. I think Schleck will provide serious opposition in the future and there will be other young riders coming through too.0 -
andyp wrote:
We'd have said the same about Ullrich 10 years ago and again for Fignon 15 years before that.Dave_1 wrote:no, Contador is really good, really really good...he will win many GTs
I agree that Contador is really good and has time on his side but it's not a given that he'll win again and again and again in GTs. I think Schleck will provide serious opposition in the future and there will be other young riders coming through too.
its those cadences of Contador...have never seen anything like it...he is poetry in motion when climbing or TTing. It is hard to tell if he came off the juice for 08 Giro or if 07 was clean...I think he might of come off products with the evidence of his climbing form decline and his slow last TT in the 08 Giro when compared to 07 TDF...but as other said...he was not ready for a Giro...0 -
To me, Contador winning the Giro, against Ricco (who was doping) and against many other good riders who had specifically targeted the race, seems well, surprising.
Either, Contador knew he was getting into the Giro and prepared as such (preparing means whatever you want it to) or he is on Tabasco Extra Haberno Hotter than Cameron Diaz Hot Sauce OR he is the finest natural rider of his generation.You live and learn. At any rate, you live0 -
Jez mon wrote:To me, Contador winning the Giro, against Ricco (who was doping) and against many other good riders who had specifically targeted the race, seems well, surprising.
Either, Contador knew he was getting into the Giro and prepared as such (preparing means whatever you want it to) or he is on Tabasco Extra Haberno Hotter than Cameron Diaz Hot Sauce OR he is the finest natural rider of his generation.
I hope it's the last part.....
Presuming he is riding clean (which I hope), I can't see anyone beating him in the next couple of years in the races he is focusing on/allowed to race, he can climb and TT better than any other GC contender, imo of course.0 -
I made this point a couple of weeks ago.Jez mon wrote:To me, Contador winning the Giro, against Ricco (who was doping) and against many other good riders who had specifically targeted the race, seems well, surprising.
Either, Contador knew he was getting into the Giro and prepared as such (preparing means whatever you want it to) or he is on Tabasco Extra Haberno Hotter than Cameron Diaz Hot Sauce OR he is the finest natural rider of his generation.
We know that Ricco was almost certainly using CERA in the Giro & that he was targeting the Giro.
We can reasonably assume that this year's TdF was reasonably clean.
We all saw how Ricco utterly outclassed the field in the mountains.
Contador comfortably beat him.
Bruyneel, Astana & no published results from the Astana testing.
Someone at the end of their career who isn't really doing well gets sacked for something unverifiable that makes it look as if Astana are doing something about doping...
Let's all draw our own conclusions....0 -
i Can see Contador winning the next 5 tours at least..i cant stand his manager though Mr Bruyneel makes you wonder about most of all those ex postal discovery riders who tested positive after they left the team....and without going into the armstrong was he on it or wasnt he,,,i am still very sceptical about the whole of those ex team members doing extra ordinary rides during previous tours......the thing that bugs me was Christian Prudhomme saying when he watched Piepoli and Cobo in the Pyrenees stage saying that he was wondering if this was real......well what about those other extraordinary rides ? i think this year we see a level playing field regarding times....ok there was a few twats like ricco an Co.0
-
Richrd2205 wrote:
I made this point a couple of weeks ago.Jez mon wrote:To me, Contador winning the Giro, against Ricco (who was doping) and against many other good riders who had specifically targeted the race, seems well, surprising.
Either, Contador knew he was getting into the Giro and prepared as such (preparing means whatever you want it to) or he is on Tabasco Extra Haberno Hotter than Cameron Diaz Hot Sauce OR he is the finest natural rider of his generation.
We know that Ricco was almost certainly using CERA in the Giro & that he was targeting the Giro.
We can reasonably assume that this year's TdF was reasonably clean.
We all saw how Ricco utterly outclassed the field in the mountains.
Contador comfortably beat him.
Bruyneel, Astana & no published results from the Astana testing.
Someone at the end of their career who isn't really doing well gets sacked for something unverifiable that makes it look as if Astana are doing something about doping...
Let's all draw our own conclusions....
Contador won the Giro because of the TT's, Ricco beat him in every mountain stage. Hardly can say Contador comfortably beat him, he didn't win one single stage and his TT skills made the difference........
Even on EPO Ricco was a bad TTer, though that explains why he did better than expected.....0 -
I think Contador will moulded into JB rider and we shall have days of Astana churning on the front like we saw when LA was winning. Yawn!'Google can bring back a hundred thousand answers. A librarian can bring you back the right one.'
Neil Gaiman0 -
Richrd2205 wrote:I made this point a couple of weeks ago.
We know that Ricco was almost certainly using CERA in the Giro & that he was targeting the Giro.
We can reasonably assume that this year's TdF was reasonably clean.
We all saw how Ricco utterly outclassed the field in the mountains.
Contador comfortably beat him.
Bruyneel, Astana & no published results from the Astana testing.
Someone at the end of their career who isn't really doing well gets sacked for something unverifiable that makes it look as if Astana are doing something about doping...
Let's all draw our own conclusions....
I have no idea whether Contador is at the hot sauce or not but I feel I should point out a few things.
1. Ricco didn't utterly outclass the field in the mountains - he just did it on one stage. He was suspiciously good but also 4 mins down on GC at the time - the 'heads of state' weren't all that bothered.
2. Contador didn't beat him comfortably at the Giro. He used the Evans plan of limiting his losses in the mountains and beating him in the time trials (and Ricco remains a rotten TTer)
3. Ricco with CERA is what he is. Without it he may be a very ordinary Chavanel quality rider. Apparaently he's been doping his whole career.
4. Astana use Damsgaard and I trust his integrity and I'm sure he'd call foul if they were merely using him for PR. He's said he'll publish the results.
Going back to the original post and ProCycling's cover - this I feel is incredibly stupid and disrespectful. Without time bonuses and Levi's 10 second fine, last year he beat Cadel by 3 seconds and Levi by 5 seconds. Hardly the performance of an all-conquering superstar. Plus he gained time riding with Rasmussen. Sastre's win was more convincing.
I remember back in 1999 people said it was a nice comeback, but a hollow victory because Ullrich and Pantani were missing.
I feel Contador may become the new Ullrich - the man everyone expects to be the new multiple winner, only to be upstaged by another (Andy Schleck)Twitter: @RichN950 -
agree totally Ms tree zzzzzzzzzz it will be the same boring put the team on the front to the bottom engage syringes and fly up the mountains
0 -
Kléber wrote:
The old "I was lying on the beach" line. I think "I was lying through my teeth" is better, as anyone will tell you most pros will ride every day during the season, so a beach day for Contador probably meant a few hours training each day, that after a run of wins in April and May.cougie wrote:Well he did well at the Giro without having had any time to prepare for it - so thats pretty amazing.
Oh sure - he wasnt sitting on the sofa eating pringles, but neither had he scouted out the route, and carefully prepared for the race and then tapered down for it. Remember all the Nike films of Lance riding the Alps time and time again in the winter - thats how he won the tour. Well, it must have helped...0 -
Richrd2205 wrote:[Someone at the end of their career who isn't really doing well gets sacked for something unverifiable that makes it look as if Astana are doing something about doping...
Let's all draw our own conclusions....
Gusev is only 26 and is Russian TT champion, hardly an old has-been :roll:0 -
Arkibal wrote:Richrd2205 wrote:
I made this point a couple of weeks ago.Jez mon wrote:To me, Contador winning the Giro, against Ricco (who was doping) and against many other good riders who had specifically targeted the race, seems well, surprising.
Either, Contador knew he was getting into the Giro and prepared as such (preparing means whatever you want it to) or he is on Tabasco Extra Haberno Hotter than Cameron Diaz Hot Sauce OR he is the finest natural rider of his generation.
We know that Ricco was almost certainly using CERA in the Giro & that he was targeting the Giro.
We can reasonably assume that this year's TdF was reasonably clean.
We all saw how Ricco utterly outclassed the field in the mountains.
Contador comfortably beat him.
Bruyneel, Astana & no published results from the Astana testing.
Someone at the end of their career who isn't really doing well gets sacked for something unverifiable that makes it look as if Astana are doing something about doping...
Let's all draw our own conclusions....
Contador won the Giro because of the TT's, Ricco beat him in every mountain stage. Hardly can say Contador comfortably beat him, he didn't win one single stage and his TT skills made the difference........
Even on EPO Ricco was a bad TTer, though that explains why he did better than expected.....
It was a four second lead going into the final TT during the final TT Contador expanded his lead to almost 2 minutes. In the mountain TT Contador beat Ricco, looking at Ricco's performance on Stage 9 Ricco can TT up a mountain and FAST.
Contador was never truly put under pressure by Ricco, sure he nearly went into pink, but he never looked like he would gain enough time to win overall.
For an unconditioned gc rider to not be put under heavy pressure in the mountains by a skinny mountain goat who was doped to gills is....
I really don't want to conclude that Contador is a doper, becuase he is a plucky rider who has come through illness to win two grand tours. Having said that I really don't want to conclude Armstrong is a doper for similar reasons. Yet it is getting harder to believe that many riders were clean.
Having said that I do believe it is getting better, Ricco was a class above climbing wise this years tour, he wasn't in the giro, Sella's performance was incredible, read into that what you will, however the view that the Giro is the Tour without doping controls is looking valid.You live and learn. At any rate, you live0 -
@RichN95
I have no idea who may or may not be on hot sauce either, however, I know enough to not believe things-that-pr-people-want-me-to-believe...
I want to believe in Contador & the new generation & all that, but, unlike you, I'm no happy to trust a name without anything else....
Can you tell me what the difference would be between Damsgaard saying they're all doped to hell & there being no doping at all in what is released in the press?
If I were confident in my skills in doping, I'd take on a dodgy team, then experiment with some of the older riders to see what could be spotted....
I'll not trust someone who can beat a convicted doper by a reasonable margin without seeing the results.
I apologise for my cynicism...0 -
Jez mon wrote:Arkibal wrote:Richrd2205 wrote:
I made this point a couple of weeks ago.Jez mon wrote:To me, Contador winning the Giro, against Ricco (who was doping) and against many other good riders who had specifically targeted the race, seems well, surprising.
Either, Contador knew he was getting into the Giro and prepared as such (preparing means whatever you want it to) or he is on Tabasco Extra Haberno Hotter than Cameron Diaz Hot Sauce OR he is the finest natural rider of his generation.
We know that Ricco was almost certainly using CERA in the Giro & that he was targeting the Giro.
We can reasonably assume that this year's TdF was reasonably clean.
We all saw how Ricco utterly outclassed the field in the mountains.
Contador comfortably beat him.
Bruyneel, Astana & no published results from the Astana testing.
Someone at the end of their career who isn't really doing well gets sacked for something unverifiable that makes it look as if Astana are doing something about doping...
Let's all draw our own conclusions....
Contador won the Giro because of the TT's, Ricco beat him in every mountain stage. Hardly can say Contador comfortably beat him, he didn't win one single stage and his TT skills made the difference........
Even on EPO Ricco was a bad TTer, though that explains why he did better than expected.....
It was a four second lead going into the final TT during the final TT Contador expanded his lead to almost 2 minutes. In the mountain TT Contador beat Ricco, looking at Ricco's performance on Stage 9 Ricco can TT up a mountain and FAST.
Contador was never truly put under pressure by Ricco, sure he nearly went into pink, but he never looked like he would gain enough time to win overall.
For an unconditioned gc rider to not be put under heavy pressure in the mountains by a skinny mountain goat who was doped to gills is....
I really don't want to conclude that Contador is a doper, becuase he is a plucky rider who has come through illness to win two grand tours. Having said that I really don't want to conclude Armstrong is a doper for similar reasons. Yet it is getting harder to believe that many riders were clean.
Having said that I do believe it is getting better, Ricco was a class above climbing wise this years tour, he wasn't in the giro, Sella's performance was incredible, read into that what you will, however the view that the Giro is the Tour without doping controls is looking valid.
I understand and respect your point of wiew. As I said before, I truly hope Contador is the real deal, and if he is, he'll be dominating the GT's for a few years. But if it turns out that he is a cheat as well, then I'll have zero symphaty for him.
But I refuse to damn any of the riders without a positive test or solid proof, no matter how spectacular rides they do/did, I'm an optimistic person and apparently a fool because of that in this cycling forum.0
