Which Titanium Audax Frame?

Norvass
Norvass Posts: 14
edited October 2010 in Workshop
I have been closely looking at the Litespead Sportive, Van Nicholas Amazon, Enigma Etape and Burls Audax Titanium framed bikes to by under my cycle to work scheme. Looking on the Condor web site I notice they have a Gran Fondo titanium bike for around £1900 - £300- £500 cheaper than the previously mentioned bikes. I have seen little reporting/discussion of the Gran Fondo and wonder if any one has ridden this bike?
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Comments

  • giant_man
    giant_man Posts: 6,878
    You have a helluva choice with titanium frames right now. I dismissed the Gran Fondo on the grounds of not having welded cable stops. I looked at the Burls, (particularly as they can do a custom option), looked at the Enigma, very nice and the VN didn't get a look in. I don't like Litespeed as a brand to consider them.

    You should have a look at the Sunday September, and in particular the Planet X sportive, which is Lynskey built and particularly good value. Don't be put off by the plainess of the tubing, it is quality and more bang for your buck. You could go even cheaper and get a frame direct from China in the form of XACD as well.

    As I said, you have a helluva choice for ti frames right now. My advice is to do your homework, see and possibly ride as many as you can, only then will you be able to narrow down the field and plump for the one that suits you most.
  • Monty Dog
    Monty Dog Posts: 20,614
    The Litespeed is a bit of a gate with it's stupidly long headtube - you pay and unwarranted premium for the name too IMO. The P-X sportive is a great choice - but make sure the geometry and set-up is right for what you want.
    Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..
  • Bern.
    Bern. Posts: 58
    The Granfondo now comes with welded stops.
    Bern
    BERNIN RUBBER
  • blorg
    blorg Posts: 1,169
    I have the Van Nicholas Amazon which I'm very happy with. Got it for light touring, wanted large tyre clearances so that light off-road would be possible (e.g. used 700x35c tyres to do the Camino.) Have a Focus Cayo as the road bike so didn't want to get something too similar to that, hence the Amazon.

    Bear in mind that the Amazon takes canti brakes rather than calipers which have issues with STI levers (I changed from cantis to Tektro mini-Vs on it and recommend them.)

    If you are sure you are never going to go above 700x25c though the Van Nicholas Yukon is lighter, cheaper, and more of an audax bike. I would certainly think it is a closer comparison to the Litespeed Sportive than the Amazon. Paul Smith has a very good review here.
  • toontra
    toontra Posts: 1,160
    I have a Van Nicholas Yukon and am completely happy with it, having used it for many long trips of 150+ miles per day for multiple days.

    The usual critisisms of it I are things like:

    1) There are too many of them around (therefore not elite enough)
    2) The welds aren't smooth enough (BTW, they look pretty smooth to me)
    3) The association with Litespeed
    4) The long head-tube

    The critisisms are from people who haven't actually ridden them. Everyone I know who owns and uses a Yukon absolutely loves them, as do I. Comfort of ride and reliability are the main factors for me in an audax-style bike, and the Yukon fills the bill perfectly.

    It's significantly cheaper than the alternatives with a lifetime warranty on defects.

    Don't buy into the snobbery - the Yukon is the best value-for-money titanium audax frame out there.


    a serious case of small cogs
  • greg roche
    greg roche Posts: 124
    I'll declare a bias as the owner of Sunday Bicycles. That said i'll make an observation that i hope you find useful: The four bikes you mention - Litespead Sportive, Van Nicholas Amazon, Enigma Etape and Burls Audax as well as your 5th option, Gran Fondo are really quite different bikes. Someone mentioned the bizarre angles and set up of the Litespeed (no comment, by the way!) and teh versatility of the Amazon. Both accurate - but they're two completely different bikes. I'd strongly suggest that you make a shopping list of what you want / don't want, prioritise and you'll knock some straight off the shopping list while others will jump to the front of the queue. Think about:

    Do i absolutely want mudguards?
    What tyre clearances do i want?
    Whats my ride position and can it be achieved off teh peg with any of my options, or is it worth going custom?
    Do i need cantilever mounts or am i always going to be on calipers?
    What weight / load will the pannier need to take?

    There are probably more. The point is, by answering these questions, the best bike choice should start to become clearer.

    At that point, get a fitting session sorted out and test ride on all the bikes. Then you'll be in a position to decide based on your own experiences.

    Greg
  • mercsport
    mercsport Posts: 664
    edited July 2008
    I would seriously consider getting hold of a Xi'an Changda Ti. frame : ' http://www.xacd.com.cn/ ' and putting the rest of the bits on yourself . I've just built one up for my partner and it's a beauty . If you look at an Enigma Etape it's exactly like that - but half the price . Not an insignificant amount .
    The frame cost me US $ 710 - Which included $50 for a polished finish , a standard head tube ( for a Chris King headset) and $155 of that was postage - no customs charges . Mail 'em a pic' of the frame you desire and they'll likely knock it up for you . They'll mail you the works drawing of every angle and vital dimension so you know exactly what will arrive . About a two week wait after confirmation of order . Other than the inevitable intercourse of mangled English - after all I can't do Chinese - it was worth it .
    I've had a three ti. frames and the Chinese one is as good as any of them . My current bike is a Litespeed Ultimate of 2006 vintage but I wouldn't think to put panniers or 'guards on it . The 'Sportive ' is certanly ugly but the head tube , apparently , is made to be cut to size when the customer is being sized to it . At least that's what I read somewhere or other .
    "Lick My Decals Off, Baby"
  • star_rover
    star_rover Posts: 318
    blorg wrote:
    He Whom We Do Not Name has a very good review here.

    I don't get this? The review is by Paul Smith from Bike Plus in Croydon!
  • toontra
    toontra Posts: 1,160
    star_rover wrote:
    blorg wrote:
    He Whom We Do Not Name has a very good review here.

    I don't get this? The review is by He Whom We Do Not Name from Bike Plus in Croydon!

    Unfortunately he has the same name as a particularly obsessive ex-head of a car lobby. The merest mention of his name in a forum could lead to unpleasant trolling.


    a serious case of small cogs
  • robbarker
    robbarker Posts: 1,367
    For that money I'd be getting Dave Yates or Longstaff's to build me a custom 953 steel frame. If you want titanium, buy direct from China on the link given above.
  • calvjones
    calvjones Posts: 3,850
    Another vote from an Amazon (actually a Carpe Diem) here. Run mine with Campag Ergos and Veloce Mini-Vs, 700x25 tyres & guards and its very comfy. Only issue I have is with toe-overlap but I built up from a frame, so probably my fault!
    ___________________

    Strava is not Zen.
  • blorg
    blorg Posts: 1,169
    I have toe overlap on many bikes, particularly those with mudguards. It's not really a problem. Dave Moulton has a good take on it here.
  • mick m
    mick m Posts: 3
    Norvass wrote:
    I have been closely looking at the Litespead Sportive, Van Nicholas Amazon, Enigma Etape and Burls Audax Titanium framed bikes to by under my cycle to work scheme. Looking on the Condor web site I notice they have a Gran Fondo titanium bike for around £1900 - £300- £500 cheaper than the previously mentioned bikes. I have seen little reporting/discussion of the Gran Fondo and wonder if any one has ridden this bike?

    I bought a Burls Audax and have no regrets whatsoever. the bike rides really well , climbs well-(for my little legs!) descends well- job done!
    Justin Burls is a top man to deal with,very helpfull and accomodating- Great Experience-I will definetley be a returning customer.
    Mick M (Yorks)
  • gradiric
    gradiric Posts: 89
    I have had Condor's Gran Fondo for over 2 years (although both the shorter wheelbase and audax were called Moda back then). I have been very happy with mine, commuting on it daily and doing 100+ mile rides at the weekend. I went with the Gran Fondo as it had bosses for mudguards and racks but I have not used them so cannot give any view on how useful it is for touring. I would definitely recommend the Gran Fondo but as someone else said you need to decide what you are going to use it for, what spec that would require, and then go and ride a few. Ti appears to be very strong - mine survived a headfirst collision into a taxi door at 20mph with no apparent damage (same couldn't be said for front wheel or me).
    Time VRS Pro-Team 08 – weekend steed
    Condor Moda - commute
    Scott something or other - manky old MTB
  • gradiric
    gradiric Posts: 89
    I have had Condor's Gran Fondo for over 2 years (although both the shorter wheelbase and audax were called Moda back then). I have been very happy with mine, commuting on it daily and doing 100+ mile rides at the weekend. I went with the Gran Fondo as it had bosses for mudguards and racks but I have not used them so cannot give any view on how useful it is for touring. I would definitely recommend the Gran Fondo but as someone else said you need to decide what you are going to use it for, what spec that would require, and then go and ride a few. Ti appears to be very strong - mine survived a headfirst collision into a taxi door at 20mph with no apparent damage (same couldn't be said for front wheel or me).
    Time VRS Pro-Team 08 – weekend steed
    Condor Moda - commute
    Scott something or other - manky old MTB
  • graham_g
    graham_g Posts: 652
    Have a look at the reviews in the new cycling plus - might sway your desire/perceived need for titanium.
  • Norvass
    Norvass Posts: 14
    Graham G wrote:
    Have a look at the reviews in the new cycling plus - might sway your desire/perceived need for titanium.
    I am intrigued as I have just bought a copy of this month's 'Best of British' Cycling Plus. Is there an article I should be looking at as regards my desire/perceived need?
  • Mapman
    Mapman Posts: 254
    i am lucky enough to ride a VN yukon perfect combination of comfort and speed e Re the issue of high head tube as mentioned previously i see this as an advantage as it aids visability
  • blorg
    blorg Posts: 1,169
    BTW just to add to my post about the Amazon vs the Yukon, I went for the Amazon as I have a Focus Cayo as the road bike anyway; if it were to be my only bike I would definately have gone for the Yukon.
  • giant_man
    giant_man Posts: 6,878
    Norvass wrote:
    Graham G wrote:
    Have a look at the reviews in the new cycling plus - might sway your desire/perceived need for titanium.
    I am intrigued as I have just bought a copy of this month's 'Best of British' Cycling Plus. Is there an article I should be looking at as regards my desire/perceived need?
    He means the new issue out Friday 25th. Summer 2008 issue.
  • Norvass
    Norvass Posts: 14
    Any one any experience with this new bike from the Roberts Stable? I got a quote from Dave Yates for £1400 for a frame and fork. I was hoping for a softer ride, the article mentioned quite a hard ride
  • giant_man
    giant_man Posts: 6,878
    Do you mean the steel one in the latest issue of C+? Looks very nice but I thought you were interested in ti .....
  • passout
    passout Posts: 4,425
    What about the planet X jobby made in the states - well worth a look. Great value but may not be what you are looking for.
    'Happiness serves hardly any other purpose than to make unhappiness possible' Marcel Proust.
  • Hi,

    I have had the VN Yukon for two years. Use it for comuting and training. Average 150 miles a week - no problems so far. Rides well and cleans up as good as new.

    Tom
  • Muzak
    Muzak Posts: 78
    greg roche wrote:
    Someone mentioned the bizarre angles and set up of the Litespeed (no comment, by the way!) Greg

    The headtube on the Litespeed is long but what is bizarre about the angles??
  • JamesB
    JamesB Posts: 1,184
    Another vote for VN Yukon --- I`ve not got (yet!! :) ) another road bike but am fairly / very happy with Yukon, takes mudgiuards and stripped down weighs in (with pedals) at about 19lb with Easton SL90 wheels so good also for sportives--- is IMHO a good training / light touring / Audax / sportive bike overall
  • Norvass
    Norvass Posts: 14
    Do you mean the steel one in the latest issue of C+? Looks very nice but I thought you were interested in ti .....
    I am intrigued by the new steels like the Reynolds 953 and the S3 found on the Salsa Primero which are being tried out by cycle companies. Interestingly in the blurb on the Thorn 858 Audax Mk3 the brochure talks about how easily titanium frames break......
  • giant_man
    giant_man Posts: 6,878
    Well I guess they would tell you that to get you to buy their steel offering ...... :roll:
  • horizon
    horizon Posts: 91
    blorg wrote:
    Bear in mind that the Amazon takes canti brakes rather than calipers which have issues with STI levers (I changed from cantis to Tektro mini-Vs on it and recommend them.)
    Any particular reason for changing them? Did you suffer brake/fork judder on the front?
  • Monty Dog
    Monty Dog Posts: 20,614
    Cantis on road frames are notorious for judder - look on any cyclo-cross bulletin boards and you'll find a fair degree of discussion - that's why quite a few people are using discs these days. I do a fair amount of on/off road venturing on my bike and recently spend a week on the very steep back lanes of East Cornwall - 25 percent hills are typical and 30 percenters not unusual if you know where to look. Avid BB7 discs gave me absolute confidence and I know that cantis would have just squealed, howled and juddered all the way down those tracks.
    Make mine an Italian, with Campagnolo on the side..