Shimano 9/10 speed cassette/ freewheel compatibility

Diver-m
Diver-m Posts: 158
edited May 2012 in Workshop
Due to crash damage on my rear wheel Mavic Askium with a 9 speed cassette I thought I would swap for a Shimano WH-R550 wheel (which currently has a 10 speed Shimano cassette).

After removing both cassettes, I found out that the 9 speed cassette wouldn’t slide on to the WH-R550 freebody.

I am confused, do 9 speeds Shimano cassette require a different freewheel body to 10 speed?

When I buy a new Askium rear wheel, will I need to check that the freewheel body fits 9 speed?

Can I convert the WH-R550 freewheel body to 9 speed, or does this mean buying a new freewheel body.

Comments

  • nicklouse
    nicklouse Posts: 50,673
    you have aligned the splines correctly? there is a wide space at one point.
    "Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
    Parktools :?:SheldonBrown
  • Diver-m
    Diver-m Posts: 158
    Thinking about it now, you are probably right. I was rushing to do it before leaving for work. I will check when I get home tonight and fingers crossed it will all slot together.

    In the end to get me to work I stuck the 10 speed wheel on, keeping to one gear on the back.
  • blorg
    blorg Posts: 1,169
    9 and 10 should be the same freehub- the 10 speed cassette just has a 1mm spacer on the inside that the 9 lacks. When you say "wouldn't slide on" do you mean the spline pattern is different, or is it the spline height?
  • Diver-m
    Diver-m Posts: 158
    when I tried to do it this morning the spline pattern seemed to be different, but that may because I was rushing
  • svetty
    svetty Posts: 1,904
    I have exactly the same question. AFAIK the WH-R550 is an ultegra wheel compatable with the 6600 group and is thus designed for 10speed cassettes - hence the freehub will also need to be swapped to enable the wheel in question to accept a 9 spd cassette but I may be wrong.
    FFS! Harden up and grow a pair :D
  • nicklouse
    nicklouse Posts: 50,673
    the freebodies are the same unless it is on of the durace 10spd bodies which have deeper splines to stop the cogs cutting into the body as much.
    "Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
    Parktools :?:SheldonBrown
  • e999sam
    e999sam Posts: 426
    As far as I was aware the 10 speed freewheel body is narrower than the 9 speed body. That's why when you put a 10 speed cassette on a 9 speed body you need to put the small spacer that comes with the cassette and that a 9 speed cassette will not fit on a 10 speed freewheel body.
  • Diver-m
    Diver-m Posts: 158
    Problem sorted, I didn't have the splines proplerly lined up. Doh!!
  • nicklouse
    nicklouse Posts: 50,673
    easy thing to get wrong in a rush.

    good to hear you are sorted.
    "Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
    Parktools :?:SheldonBrown
  • blorg
    blorg Posts: 1,169
    e999sam wrote:
    As far as I was aware the 10 speed freewheel body is narrower than the 9 speed body. That's why when you put a 10 speed cassette on a 9 speed body you need to put the small spacer that comes with the cassette and that a 9 speed cassette will not fit on a 10 speed freewheel body.
    No, the 10 speed freehub is the same width, the cassettes are narrower and need the 1mm spacer but there are no hubs you can put them onto without the spacer. A 9 speed cassette will fit fine, without the spacer obviously.
  • e999sam
    e999sam Posts: 426
    blorg wrote:
    e999sam wrote:
    As far as I was aware the 10 speed freewheel body is narrower than the 9 speed body. That's why when you put a 10 speed cassette on a 9 speed body you need to put the small spacer that comes with the cassette and that a 9 speed cassette will not fit on a 10 speed freewheel body.
    No, the 10 speed freehub is the same width, the cassettes are narrower and need the 1mm spacer but there are no hubs you can put them onto without the spacer. A 9 speed cassette will fit fine, without the spacer obviously.
    The spacer is only needed when you put a 10 speed cassette on a 9 speed body. You don't need it when you put it on a 10 speed body. which surgest to me that the 10 speed body is narrower than the 9.
  • John.T
    John.T Posts: 3,698
    All Shimano 8/9 and 10 sp freehubs are the same width. The 10sp cassette is 1mm narrower so needs the spacer (on all hubs). A 9sp will fit on any of them. The only exception is some Dura-ace hubs which have a deeper spline pattern.
    My Fleet.
  • e999sam
    e999sam Posts: 426
    http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/techdocs/content/cycle/SI/Dura-Ace/CS-7800/1Z80A_EN_v1_m56577569830605972.PDF
    Link to shimanos tech page shows spacer is only needed on a 9 speed body.
  • blorg
    blorg Posts: 1,169
    e999sam wrote:
    http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/techdocs/content/cycle/SI/Dura-Ace/CS-7800/1Z80A_EN_v1_m56577569830605972.PDF
    Link to shimanos tech page shows spacer is only needed on a 9 speed body.
    No, it is always needed with any 10 speed Shimano cassette. The cassette comes with the spacer. I installed an new Ultegra 10 only the other day on my new wheels - this is why I was researching this issue- to find out where that 1mm spacer went! Look up any of the 10sp cassette diagrams and you will see the spacer.

    What John.T says above is right.
  • svetty
    svetty Posts: 1,904
    If you look on the corresponding ultegra diagram:

    http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/techd ... 608914.pdf

    it shows the freehub as component Y-3C98050. The title line of that document is 'Shimano Ultegra Freehub FH-6600 8/9/10spd'. To me this implies that this freehub is compatable with at least some 8/9 cassettes as well as the ultegra 10 speed. Unfortunately it isn't clear which 9 speed hubs are compatable but I'd imagine it's a fair guess that a given recent 9 speed will work - without the spacer of course.
    FFS! Harden up and grow a pair :D
  • biscuit959
    biscuit959 Posts: 111
    http://www.wiggle.co.uk/shimano-cassett ... acer/#more

    ^^is that the spacer needed? I've got a 10 spd cassette which I bought second hand but didn't come with a spacer so need to buy one now.
    Strava: http://app.strava.com/athletes/117170
  • dseddon1
    dseddon1 Posts: 122
    No mate its not that one. Its this one, http://www.edinburghbicycle.com/product ... r-10-speed i think ive got a couple. Hang fire buying one and ill pm you in a couple hours. If ive got one, you can have it.

    I'm not so sure its as cut and dried as 'all' 10speed hubs need a spacer. Ive got a couple of bikes that have spacers that are supposed shimano 10speed hubs with spacers and Ive got a set of Mavic Ksyrium SL's with a shimano 10speed hub fitted with an ultegra 6700 cassette, No spacer needed. My Mavics are the 2012 version though, maybe some manufacturers have started building specifically for 10speed as the 9speed systems are no longer the norm??? Id try it first, its pretty obvious if you need a spacer or not once the lockring is tightened.
    #allaboutthebike
  • wakou
    wakou Posts: 165
    I recently bought a 10 spd Tiagra cassette, to put on my 8/9/10 spd hub. It did not come with spacer (Brand new) The tech doc shows no spacer... I bunged it on, no problem.. The spacer is IMHO for 105 and above cassettes...
    "I had righteous got my wheel backmost from a fettlin' at the LBS and was hunt transport to equitation it. As it was Refrigerated in the AM......"
  • blorg
    blorg Posts: 1,169
    @dseddon- maybe a change for 2012. Are you sure there wasn't a spacer on the hub already? Mavic hubs traditionally required a special, wider spacer which comes with the wheelset. If you have the Mavic spacer you don't need the Shimano one as well. (I have three or four Mavic wheelsets and they are all like this.)
  • nicklouse
    nicklouse Posts: 50,673
    blorg wrote:
    e999sam wrote:
    http://techdocs.shimano.com/media/techdocs/content/cycle/SI/Dura-Ace/CS-7800/1Z80A_EN_v1_m56577569830605972.PDF
    Link to shimanos tech page shows spacer is only needed on a 9 speed body.
    No, it is always needed with any 10 speed Shimano cassette. The cassette comes with the spacer. I installed an new Ultegra 10 only the other day on my new wheels - this is why I was researching this issue- to find out where that 1mm spacer went! Look up any of the 10sp cassette diagrams and you will see the spacer.

    What John.T says above is right.
    As long as it is not a wide ratio cassette, eg MTB as they don't use a spacer.
    "Do not follow where the path may lead, Go instead where there is no path, and Leave a Trail."
    Parktools :?:SheldonBrown
  • dseddon1
    dseddon1 Posts: 122
    blorg wrote:
    @dseddon- maybe a change for 2012. Are you sure there wasn't a spacer on the hub already? Mavic hubs traditionally required a special, wider spacer which comes with the wheelset. If you have the Mavic spacer you don't need the Shimano one as well. (I have three or four Mavic wheelsets and they are all like this.)

    Yeh I know the spacer you are on about, seen it on some 2010 elites. No spacer on my new ones though. I think its probably a case of trying it with/without and seeing what works. Aslong as the lockring is tight and the indexing is good then happy days :D
    #allaboutthebike

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