Quantify benefit of a TT bike...

SteveR_100Milers

Currently TTing on a road bke with crappy clip on bars, have ridden 3-4 events late last year and this year on a borrowed TT bike (with a decent set of Cosmic Carbones). Disappointingly, I didnt smash my PB on comparable courses and conditions, in fact it was marginal, only a handful of seconds. However, all I did was reset the saddle height and made no other adjustments, so maybe there was a lot more from tweaking the position.

This "experience" made me doubt the wisdom of shelling out a grand+ on a TT bike, so this evening I experimented on a club 10 of road bike without aero bars, and was frankly stunned: I was nearly 2 minutes slower then previous 3 weeks, whereas everyone else was at least a similar time or faster (it wasnt a specially slow night). OK, I think knocking 45 miles out yesterday didnt help, but cannot account for 2 minutes!

Anway, the TT bke is back into consideration - but I need some data: how much time do people estimate they improved by (on a reference 10 TT) by using a TT bike compared to a road bike with simple clip on bars?

Harp

A road bike with clip ons comapered to a TT bike with a similar position will produce VERY similar times.
I set my PBs on an old road frame with TT bars , I now have a P3 but still not bettered my times.

cydonian74

I think that a specific tt bike is less important than the right aero kit and the way that is used. The best advantages come from the following, in my experience.

(a) Well adjusted aero bars (clip ons are great)
(b) an aero front wheel (the rear is less important, as it is sheilded by the frame)
(c) A helmet...aero or other wise,they are nearly all wind tunnel tested and better than nothing on your head.

These few items alone will add up to at least a minute in 10 miles and 2-3 mins in a 25 mile event. I doubt that removing the clip-ons made you 2 mins slower, so no explanation for that i'm afraid, it must have been conditions and the like.

3leggeddog

To extend this thread a bit, what is each modification between a road and tt bike worth time wise?

Say we assume a 30min 10 as a starting point.

How many mins/secs do you judge each difference to save you

eg aero bars -1min?

blade forks -10sec?

too many chocolate aero bars +5min

There must be some techno geek data out there to help this thread along

andrewgturnbull

Hi there.

A 30 min 10m TT is not a good starting point for this thought experiment. For that rider the biggest difference will be quality and quantity of training, then a good pacing strategy.

I'm not saying that aero goodies aren't any use at 20mph, just that there are probably a lot more improvements to be made elsewhere.

Now, once we're trained up up and hitting, say 25 or 26 minutes then I'd say that riding in the _best_position_ in terms of an aero/power trade off might be worth approx 60 seconds compared to riding a road bike on the drops.

A TT bike can help you get into this position - although it may be possible using a slightly smaller road frame, moving the seat forward, adding a longer stem and aero bars.

Cheers, Andy

DavidBelcher

andrewgturnbull wrote:

aero goodies

Are they the ones with tri-bars and a disc wheel on the Trandem (though Bill Oddie's facial hair may negate some of the benefit)?

David

SteveR_100Milers

Andy

for arguments sake, assume the rider produces constant power (as one poster has on timetrial forum) and ten compare the results. Of course the biggest influence is the aerobic engine, but thats not the question I am asking! I am looking to see wat step change I might expect from swapping from a RR bike set up to a properly set up TT bike. Imagine the result to be a step change improvement to my TT times on the improvement curve...

andrewgturnbull

Hi Steve.

You won't get a step change! Your body will take time to adapt to the new position, but assuming you've got it right, then I think you'll gain a minute - eventually.

Actually, perhaps the best way to test this is in reverse... I've been riding on aero bars for 10 years now, and my position has been pretty locked down now for the last 3 years or so (since i bought my current TT bike). If I was to try a knock out a 10 on my road bike with no aero bars, even with my aero wheels and helmet I think I would lose a minute.

There's a step change for you!

Cheers, Andy

Mog Uk

I should be able to answer this one over the next couple of weeks. I rode my last club 10 on a road bike last night ( 25:17 ) New TT bike arrives next week so we'll see just how much ( if any ) of a difference in both speed and comfort it makes at the next few club 10s....

willbevan

I think they do make a resonable amount of difference.

I have been riding on a road bike with Tri bars, and im not quick, getting my time down from 33:58 in december (my first ever), to 29:05 last night..

slowly making progress.

Now that 29:05 last night was very very hard, and a new PB, cutting my previous PB of 29:16 by 11 seconds.

Now in between i took out a TT bike (one i have bought lol but didn't race last night as i thought it was a 2 up but ended up being a solo), and took it out for a training ride on the course. Did 28:30ish, taking it easy for the first 5 miles, and then a bit more near the end, still had plenty to give etc etc.

Now difference between what im using now? Aero wheels, and closing range block

2 weeks time when im running that course again i hope that it will show a fair bit of difference

Could all be in my head lol.

John.T

It could have been the taking it easy for the first 5 miles that did it. If you start too fast and die then you nearly always lose more time than if you started steadier. You do not have time to get a 'second wind' in a 10. A common novice (and not so novice {me} ) error.

SteveR_100Milers

willbevan wrote:

I think they do make a resonable amount of difference.

I have been riding on a road bike with Tri bars, and im not quick, getting my time down from 33:58 in december (my first ever), to 29:05 last night..

slowly making progress.

Now that 29:05 last night was very very hard, and a new PB, cutting my previous PB of 29:16 by 11 seconds.

Now in between i took out a TT bike (one i have bought lol but didn't race last night as i thought it was a 2 up but ended up being a solo), and took it out for a training ride on the course. Did 28:30ish, taking it easy for the first 5 miles, and then a bit more near the end, still had plenty to give etc etc.

Now difference between what im using now? Aero wheels, and closing range block

2 weeks time when im running that course again i hope that it will show a fair bit of difference

Could all be in my head lol.

Of course you realise that beating Thag on a road bike on our Walford 10 is your target for next year...

willbevan

SteveR_100Milers wrote:

Of course you realise that beating Thag on a road bike on our Walford 10 is your target for next year...

Next year, nooooo this season's goal *cough cough*

If i can get up to speed with any of the seasoned members that do a lot of racing i will be a happy chappy!

Not sure what a realistic goal is yet for this season, i think.... touch wood i will break into 27 on the TT bike, beyond that im not honestly sure...

Anyway off to do some intervals on said bike

You racing anytime on the local 10s Steve?

hambones

Let's be honest - it IS all about the bike. A club mate 4 weeks ago did a sporting course in 26.15 on his bog standard road bike. Last week he did the same course in very similar conditions on a borrowed 4k TT bike and did a 23.50.

willbevan

SteveR_100Milers wrote:

Of course you realise that beating Thag on a road bike on our Walford 10 is your target for next year...

Well took the TT bike out tonight... (Round the walford course starting at ross end)

Aimed for a sliver under 27:59... so a minute faster than my road bike, thought that was a good target for tonight....

End time... 27:04 (with waiting for a car to go past at the turn)... now my last run in better conditions on my road bike was 29:05 (Last thursday), and i was still accelerating over the line unlike last week...

Nice two minutes there

Now i only need to find another 2 minutes and i can beat thag

Richie G

Aimed for a sliver under 27:59... so a minute faster than my road bike, thought that was a good target for tonight....

End time... 27:04 (with waiting for a car to go past at the turn)... now my last run in better conditions on my road bike was 29:05 (Last thursday), and i was still accelerating over the line unlike last week...

Nice two minutes there

Now i only need to find another 2 minutes and i can beat thag

That's an impressive improvement - bet you're well chuffed with that!
I've been consistantly around the mid 27's for the last couple of months (think i've plateaued and need to rethink my training!). Have been riding my road bike without clip-ons all year and decided to give the clip-ons a go last night. Now i haven't even trained on them this year, so it felt pretty uncomfortable, yet i still ended up with a mid 26 (new PB!). Really surprised at the difference given i wasn't used to the position and the fact that i didn't feel i had a particularly good ride (i had a poor last 2 miles). Aerodynamics obviously count for something! 8)

Rich

philak

The question of whether to go for a TT bike or just keep with my current road bike is vexing me big time at the moment so i'm viewing this thread with interest.

I'd love to think i could knock 2 minutes off my best time by changing bikes like you have Will but i'm wondering how much of that is to do with conditions. I was out on the bike 3 evenings last week including Thursday and max wind speed around here was about 8mph. Tonight its more like 15-20mph and it doesnt look that localised. If conditions were better for you last week Will then maybe you were riding into a 15mph headwind tonight in which case the improvement is truly remarkable.

What TT bike did you buy btw? I'm looking at this Bianchi as a starter TT bike .Spec looks ok to me but anyone have any thoughts on it?

http://www.awcycles.co.uk/brands/Bianch ... index.aspx

Cheers

willbevan

Yea the headwind wasn't nice at all!!!! but liked the tailwind coming back. The week before was my PB, knocked 11 seconds off from the week before. So i am consistently improving was a pretty still night before. Average HR was a couple beats less overall last night as well.

I do have clip on tri bars on my road bike as well (cheap decathlon sport 2) and do notice the difference on tri bars (1mph maybe when i get down on them, noticeably becomes easier to pedal for the same HR and speedo reports increase in speed)

I was uterly shocked by the difference on the TT bike over my road bike with tri bars (but then its a cheap bike), mind you i did spend a lot of time setting up (webcam from the side and a laptop), reading about bike fit and adjusting the height of the bars, the seat etc (could do with the step being a tad shorter but didn't want to buy one)

The TT bike i bought was a second hand echelon, alu frame carbon rear stays, alu TT bars, carbon 50mm (i think not 40) wheel at the front, old zip disc (8 speed, older than i thought when i bought it dam it!) at the back. Mix of DA and Record/Chorus (yes odd huh but it works flawlessly) I paid slightly over 2/3 of the price of that banchi.

Only difference i would say though is the wheels as the ones i have i presume are more aero dynamic......

I will chuck up an overlay of the two rides when i get home, speed profile over the distance so you can have a look noticably different on the peaks etc.

willbevan

one thing i will add, the only reason i bought a TT bike over a normal road bike with clip ons was becuase i realised if i bought a nice road bike (was thinking of a tarmac or a roubaix) the only time i would use them was for the local TTs, as i wouldnt want to put my longer 70-80mi rides on the weekend on it

Hence i got a bike specific to what i was going to use it for

phelim

i did a few tt at beginnning of season and was knocking out 26's got myself a felt b2pro and the first tt i took 2.40 off the previous time over the same course. i would say if your planning to do tt's then get a tt bike you will notice a big difference.

willbevan

would love to do 26s on a normal road bike

more training for me!

SteveR_100Milers

That's a huge improvement.
I rode one if your 10's a few weeks back but erm messed up and turned early tho..... :oops: I have borrowed Paul's Cervelo, but all I did was drop the saddle as he has got stupidly long legs as you know. I reckon it was worth about 15s on the Pontypool club 10 course which runs around Usk (so isnt flat). I'm sure wth a proper adjustment of position it wold be much better. Cookie got his bike from Echelon didnt he? and fitted it properly around him, and you can see what effect that has had.
Did you ride tonight? it was the 3 laps jobby wasnt it?

willbevan

oh yea i did remember the rucass about you turning early How come you have Fallon's Cervelo, thinking of buying one yourself or buying Paul's? I do love the frame on that bike, looks lovely!

Nah i didn't ride last night on the much marcle circuit, was marshaling at the first turn so got to see everyone feeling tired at the end (Cycling to cardiff from ross today hence doing my own private race wednesday, and not doing the club one last night)

Yep cookie does have an echelon, reason i took notice of the bike when i saw it going second hand, but slightly different frame etc.

Going to take the TT bike on the walford course next week so should be fun

928man

i gained at least a minute (23.30 v 24.30) on 10m switching from clip ons on a road bike to a tt bike which gave me a much better position, really locked in place and lower than I could get on the road bike. I'd expect to get another minute on an aero wheel + helmet, another 30secs just working harder maybe