Purpose built vs "natural" trails; the debate

shin0r

The other topic that points to Marcus' blog here is locked. ( That's not very Web 2.0, what ever happened to user-generated content? ) I'd be interested in other people's views on the subject. Here's my 2 cents:

I have a time-consuming job and a family, as well as other hobbies. Biking is one of my hobbies and I only get one ( or maybe two days a week in the summer ) , if I'm lucky, where other commitments don't have to come first. I'd love to be able to bike 7 days a week, but that's not going to happen unless I win the lotto.

Trail centres offer me everything I could want; I know the route will contain some sweet singletrack, technical sections, hard climbs and great scenery. I know that if I fall off and I'm riding alone, someone is likely to come along and help me. I know that I won't get lost. I know that I can get a cup of tea, a hot shower and a plate of chips afterwards. I know I can park my car cheaply or for free and it will be relatively safe in the trail centre car park. I know that my wife and kids can take the dog on the rambling trails (at least in Wales) and I can meet them aftwerwards in the cafe. I know that I'm unlikely to come across horses, dogs, motorbikes or ramblers on most of the bike trails. I know I'll finish the day knackered and exhilarated.

Trail centre trails are constantly reviewed (by us, the bikers!); if they were not up to scratch they would soon close. This almost guarantees sweet trails. Go on, try and have a day out at somewhere like Afan without enjoying yourself. Impossible.

I may be in the minority but I'm not bothered about "finding myself" or getting lost in the great outdoors: I've no real interest in learning how to map read or completing some great epic journey on my bike. I bike because I enjoy the exercise and the adrenaline rush, and the chips afterwards.

Recently there was a Mint Sauce cartoon lampooning the generation of bikers who "drive seven hours to the trail centre in their X5s and "own" the downhill" (or similar) - the harsh reality is that for many people this is what biking is about. The sport has moved on from where it was even 10 years ago.

Trail centre, purpose-built riding is no better or worse than "natural" trail riding, just different.

dhxcme

Purpose built trails are great as they are designed to be ridden and have it all laid on so less time faffing.

streako

Why not do both?

dhxcme

I do like the hidden stuff round me as it's mine, all mine. Sometimes though it can become mind numbingly boring as it's quite flat and short.

indysmith

Natural Stuff is all good! but purpose built will always be better because, well, it's purpose built for riding!
I think the best compromise would be somewhere purpose built that looks natural (Kirroughtree, anyone?).

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=3 ... =506441533
here are some pics of the hills out the back of the house im staying at, taken today. Good, solid, natural riding. Fantastic for every day use and there's never anyone there. I also realized today how difficult it is to taken pictures that genuinely represent the terrain - everything looks so tame on camera!

Of course, I couldn't vote, since you put the word 'hell' in front of each of the options; something which i find deeply blasphemous.

sam1234

Prefere natural myself, as I find it more varied and just as challenging if not more at times. I have nothing agaisnt trail centers and I do ride them as they great for faff free and
fun biking. My nearst trail centre is Haldon which is a hours drive. The XC loop can be complted in under an hour if you don't stop to play on the northshore etc. In roughly 40mins I can be on Exmoor and starting an all day epic or a quick 10 mile blast around the doone valley.

My mate who has just returned from uni in Wales. Says after a couple of months of riding the Welsh centers he was soon board and that he finds riding natural stuff up in the mountains more fun and a lot harder.

The other problem I found with trail centers is that you can sometimes find yourself slowed up behind a novice on singletrack. Not that I can moan on that point; as we all have to start somewhere and trail centers are often the best places. So I sometimes ride them midweek when they are oftem quiter.

Sam

sam1234

Prefere natural myself, as I find it more varied and just as challenging if not more at times. I have nothing agaisnt trail centers and I do ride them as they great for faff free and
fun biking. My nearst trail centre is Haldon which is a hours drive. The XC loop can be complted in under an hour if you don't stop to play on the northshore etc. In roughly 40mins I can be on Exmoor and starting an all day epic or a quick 10 mile blast around the doone valley.

My mate who has just returned from uni in Wales. Says after a couple of months of riding the Welsh centers he was soon board and that he finds riding natural stuff up in the mountains more fun and a lot harder.

The other problem I found with trail centers is that you can sometimes find yourself slowed up behind a novice on singletrack. Not that I can moan on that point; as we all have to start somewhere and trail centers are often the best places. So I sometimes ride them midweek when they are oftem quiter.

Sam

artillerydave

I agree with the mix of both approach but can say however that some of the best rides I have ever had are the trail centre trails, glentress red run, kirrotree mcmoab, mabie phoenix trail and penmachno loop 1 are some of my most favourite rides I have ever ever had. they are designed and built for enjoyment by people who know what they are doing and I see it as a big way forward for our sport in the future.

ratty2k

Ride both, when I first started it was easy to go to a trail center and ride on my own as none of my mates were into riding at the time. The problem for me at trail centers is that its all designed to be ridden. When you get to natural stuff, where its not all ridaeable then the real fun starts! Must say I've only been riding in the peak district this year and its by far the best riding I've done considerably better and more challenging than any trail center- and that includes Penmachno, Glentress, llandegla etc.....

Neil Fat man on a bike

Never been to a trail centre so I cant comment.
But I do intend taking a trip to one this summer.
In the meantime I'll just ride what ever's infront of me.

FSR_XC

Never been to a trail centre.

There's plenty of MTB'in around me.

Would be interesting to see what all the hype is about I suppose. Nearest one is only about 140miles away!

Chaka Ping

shin0r wrote:

I may be in the minority but I'm not bothered about "finding myself" or getting lost in the great outdoors: I've no real interest in learning how to map read or completing some great epic journey on my bike. I bike because I enjoy the exercise and the adrenaline rush, and the chips afterwards.

You're not really in the minority, when you think how many other people use the trail centres.

Some people complain that trail centres are commoditising the sport, but then these are probably the sort of people who would be complaining about something else if trail centres did not exist - probably that no younger riders were getting into MTBing or that the National Park bridleways were too torn up by a high volume of riders (who are currently riding at trail centres).

wordnumb

Both.
However, I'm more comfortable pushing the bike faster at a trail centre for the simple reason that fast moving bikes are expected there. I love riding out in the middle of nowhere, but there is always a chance of rounding a corner to find a group of walkers, or birdwatchers etc - this rarely (in my experience) happens at a trail centre.

Surf-Matt

Same as Mark (FSR-XC) - plenty of riding around here and a large part of MTBing to me is exploring, getting away from crowds of people and just being in and around the countryside.

A trail centre would make me grumpy.

passout

Natural is more challenging, varied and interesting. Also there are far fewer Mountain Bikers and often more wildlife. Bridleways take you places (summits, villages, pubs), man made just sends you in meaningless circles. Manmade trails are basically fake, plastic and 'non-places' as the post modernists would describe them. They have no sense of place, no actual identity and no meaning to most people. I realise that his last point is rather academic but I really think that's why I resent them so much - they are not real 'places.'

Then again it probably does depend on where you live because I ride the bridleways of the Lakes and Dales which are pretty close to me. If I lived in Norwich I may think differently.

Anonymous

perpose built then you mite as well go on the road natural trails all the way but thats all we have in northern ireland as there are very few built trails in the whole of the provence and to add to the pleasure most of the natural trails are illegal but i wouldn't do anything illegal :roll: :roll: :roll:

KeithNMBC

I used to go for natural but then decided purpose built are better and this is why.

DOGS

On natural trails you tend to get dog **** everywhere and extendable leads that you can hardly see. So I now like trail centres over natural.

Oh wait.......

What's this I see these days.......

DOGS being taken for walkies running around trail centres in front of their owners......

So now what do I decide, well still Trail Centres as next time I crash into the middle of a dog in the middle of the trail, at least then there is more chance of me getting to hospital from a trail centre than in the middle of a forest or moor. THere is also a chance that the dog owner will also get to hospital after I have beaten on him for being so daft.

Surf-Matt

Must be a Northern problem.

We see very few dogs on our club rides and if you can't bunny hop a wee censored , then you need to go back to basics.

Dogs are great - this is ours! A seal with ears!



...and SO obedient too

KeithNMBC

I ride all over the country, it not a northern problem, dogs in trail centres are bad news and dangerous. Would you be happy with a cyclist if he came at you at 20mph in the wrong direction around a blind bend? No I doubt you would. So why are dogs ok?

Also from a dog owners point of view, would you be happy with putting your dog in a dangerous situation where it could be either severely hurt or injured along with the person who hit it? I wouldn't

But this if for another discussion in another thread, not this one. Apologies for the derail.

KonaMike

When I started out MTB'ing there were no centres so we just made our own roots over the local mountains, but to me trail centres are like stringing together all of the best parts of those natural rides and putting them in a convenient location !!
The big climb at the start of my local trail (Cwmcarn) spreads riders out so it never feels over crowded even on the busiest days,plus it has amazing views from the top which make it hard to believe you are in an urban surrounded area ! (See pic)

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/rach-chavette/cwmcarn/014.jpg

I would only be able to ride half as much as I do without Trail centres plus my nearest one is a just mile down the road !

Mrs Toast

As a relative newcomer to mountain biking, purpose built trails are a god-send for me.
I know that I'm not trespassing on anyone's land, or wrecking any delicate eco-systems or habitats. I know that I'm less likely to encounter walkers, horseriders and dogs, so I can concentrate on gaining some skills with relatively little risk of unpredictable hazards being thrown at me. I know that the trail is going to be fun, varied, and rideable - where I live is pretty much flat farmland, there are lots of footpaths, but relatively few bridleways, and most of those are poorly maintained and churned up, either by horses or by farm animals.

I would like to get out on more natural trails, but where I live is a touch on the dull side - but even if I did live someone a bit more exciting, I'd stick to natural trails that were known and reviewed. Otherwise, I'd be worried about riding anywhere illegally, or getting out of my depth...and plus my sense of direction outside of a car is fairly risible!

Surf-Matt

Well there are no trail centres down here and I wouldn't let my dog on one even if there were.

But discounting everything but MTBs is a bit strong - I surf a lot. Often with swimmers, bodyboarders and the like - we just live with it and don't have a hissy fit if something non MTBish gets in the way. Seems some trail centre riders are rather selfish.

That pic above just makes me cringe - warning signs everywhere, mad made bridges, etc, etc - puts me off even more.

KonaMike

Surf-Matt wrote:

Well there are no trail centres down here and I wouldn't let my dog on one even if there were.

But discounting everything but MTBs is a bit strong - I surf a lot. Often with swimmers, bodyboarders and the like - we just live with it and don't have a hissy fit if something non MTBish gets in the way. Seems some trail centre riders are rather selfish.

That pic above just makes me cringe - warning signs everywhere, mad made bridges, etc, etc - puts me off even more.

I can understand what your saying Matt,that pic is of the Freeride section at the top but the rest of the XC course is a lot more natural and flowing.

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f271/rach-chavette/cwmcarn/007.jpg

I guarantee that you would enjoy an afternoons riding at Cwmcarn .Im not against natural or wild riding,its how I started out but these days with 2 kids and work 6 days a week the trail Centre is just to convenient .

alf01

Only been to a trail centre once on a borrowed bike

was pretty concious of blocking the better riders as I pootled down the track.

I recently found the local uni track which is pretty gnarly with home made features and rusty barbed wire about which I enjoy

but right now I am mostly enjoying the natural stuff which is abundant round me.

I hike a bit as well and have scoped some great spots that way

so I guess its mainly natural

Surf-Matt

Mike - fair enough but we honestly have that sort of stuff all around us down here - in fact there's a track about 400 yards from me very much like that.

But Cwmcarm, CyB, etc do seem very popular so they must have something going for them but I'd just get narked being "told" where to ride, having to ride in loops, etc.

Closest I've got to a trail is the Timberland one near Bristol - which I rode once, got bored and never tried again.

Guess we are just lucky down here in Cornwall.

Anonymous

I enjoy riding backcountry, but then again, I live in Snowdonia, so there's not exactly a shortage of places to go. I guess, when I'm surrounded by so many mountains, I get blase about them, so a trail centre for me is like an occasion to ride something "diferent".

However, I really do like trail centres. For me it's like the MTBing equivalent of a track-day.
you know it's pretty safe to go at full-tilt, and you know what to expect.
However, most of the trail centre routes I ride, were originally just back country trails, that someone saw an opportunity to put a cafe, and some signposts up.

Another thing that's fun about trail centres is the crazy sections with perfectly groomed berms and jumps. You'll never find that kind of thing on the side of a welsh mountain, just brown-trousers sized drops.

dave_hill

Chaka Ping wrote:

You're not really in the minority, when you think how many other people use the trail centres.

I have absolutely no proof of this, but out of all the regular MTBers in the UK, I would think that the trail centre users are in the minority.

Think about it this way - on any given weekend, think of the numbers of riders who are concentrated at trail centres. I'll bet there's a hell of a lot more out in the hills doing their own thing. The thing is, you don't see them because they are spread out over such a large area.

Chaka Ping wrote:

Some people complain that trail centres are commoditising the sport, but then these are probably the sort of people who would be complaining about something else if trail centres did not exist

Hmm. Don't seem to remember anyone complaining about a lack of trail centres BEFORE there was any such thing...

I prefer the natural. I'm not anti-trail centre, I just think that they sanitise the whole experience. Yes, they can be fun, and yes they provide a dedicated environment where you can ride safe in the knowledge that you have all the rights and shouldn't need to bother about anyone else using the trails. But I do think that they suck the imagination out of you and that lack of the "living on the edge" feeling, no matter how small, makes all the difference.

My nearest (proper) trail centre is probably Llandegla, and as anyone knows who has been there, it's a laugh but the possibilities are limited. An hour with a highlighter pen and a map gives me 150 miles of trails or probably more within 30 miles of home. So why bother going to Llandegla?

Chaka Ping

Dave - I'd agree with you that more MTBers probably don't use trail centres than do at any given time, but the original poster said he was in the minority for not wanting to go out into the wilderness with a map and "find himself".

I suspect most MTBers who aren't at trail centres are more likely to be hacking about in the woods than riding across the fells with a map case round their neck.

I think it's possible to argue that trail centres might even open riders up to the possibility of doing bigger, self-guided rides - once they've got the confidence that they have built up the skills and stamina required in a safe setting.

Personally, I think I prefer natural trails at the micro level - it's just more satisfying to ride a tough technical section if you don't already regard it as "do-able" because it's on a red/black route - but trail centres are very seductive and the best of them can feel like a great natural trail with added singletrack excitement.

Anonymous

It's probably worth pointing out as well, that most trail centres have an unreasonable amount of singletrack.
I've never known a natural trail to have as much top quality singletrack stuff as, say, the MBR route in Coed y Brenin.

However, that might be down to the raw nature of the countryside round here.

teacherman

2 totally different experiences with their own advantages/disadvantages. I like a bit of both personally. If I go to Dalby mid-week I can ride all the way round the red route and see only a couple of other people. On a natural ride I can be weaving in and out of horses, walkers, dogs.

Amos

I ride natural trails the majority of the time, living near the South Downs provides me with a lot of bridleways for exploring which I do enjoy. The downside is running into traffic! There is nothing worse than flying down some of the descents and going round a corner to find someone or something in the way.

There are some amazing sections of natural singletrack around here, but all too often they are too short, and miles away from the next sweet section.

I have also spent a couple of weekends in Afan riding the trails there. They offer amazing amounts of flowing trails and technical singletrack, as well as being free of dogs, horses and ramblers.

I like the trail centre experience, but I think I would tire of it if I lived next too one, there is only some many times you can ride the same trail before getting bored of it.

If you haven't been to Afan. Coed y Brenin, or one of the 7stanes trail centres don't knock them. The idea of a trail centre might not appeal to you but the trails are usually of the highest quality. I would be surprised to find many people who really enjoy riding there bike that wouldnt enjoy riding round a trail like the Wall.