Will Condor ever have a website?

Shavedlegs

They used to have a page which had next to no information on it. Now they have had an underconstruction page for a year. Is this to mimic waiting in the shop to be served?

Does anyone believe one day it will be possible to check their stock on-line? Perhaps even order on-line.

kant314

I know.
it's a joke in this day and age.

If they had a semi decent web site, I'd visit more often than once a year, which is what I do now.

JWSurrey

Yeah - A shame - Especially when you compare it with a company like Rapha, who have a nice site and some cool events.
I noticed that even the PDFs have not been updated for 2008.

A "recently tested/recommended products" page would be useful too, along with courier delivery in central London - which I have been offered in the past.

andyp

Maybe Condor feel they get enough business through their shop to make the set up, running costs and maintenance of a website not worthwhile?

edeverett

I'll build them a website if they need one. (That's what I do)

I reckon it'd cost:

- one singlespeed,
- one commuter,
- one light "sunday best" bike,
- one bike for the girlfriend

All with top-end kit and a free year's service.

(this'd be a brochure site, a shop would be big money)

Ed.

homercles

andyp wrote:

Maybe Condor feel they get enough business through their shop to make the set up, running costs and maintenance of a website not worthwhile?

In which case come out and say as much on the homepage - "We're already awash with Rapha-clad poseurs throwing money at us and can scarcely deal with the people in our shop, let alone those who might want web service."

Not the current "New and Improved currently in production" guff.

Shame as judging by the 'holding page' it could be a nice site.

giant_man

I approached them over a year ago offering my services as I own a small graphic design company, but was told it was all in hand, and even in my day to day profession, I find it dragging on a bit now. The home page still shows the same old splash page.

The information people want to see is not up there, simple as that, and they are losing trade because of it. Period.

Bern.

I feel I should comment on our website which has been 'under construction' for far too long.

We signed a deal with someone to build our website to include on-line shopping over a year ago. At this time we were ooking to move our production to a larger site, install a new computer system, refurbish the shop and go on-line roughly in that order.

We managed to find a new location for production very early this year, but after months of wrangling we had to pull out as we were getting nowhere with the owners who were not being helpful at all, but that is a long story. This meant that we were back at square one. We currently have two new options we are looking into. Warehouse and production facilities are few and far between in Central London.

As well as being a frustrating year as far as our production and website are concerned it has also been a good year as far as sales of our brand are concerned. Our staff have managed to cope increadibly well under a lot of pressure during the busy summer.

It is not a case of Condor not wanting to spend the cash on the website or the shop interior. We are an increadibly busy store as noted on this forum and as far as we are concerned our customers are our number one priority, this means serving those who visit the store first. If we put a new on-line ordering website live today we would not be able to offer that same service to the on-line shopper and this is not what we are about.

Work has been going on in the meantime and our 08 range will be on line shortly, there will just be no on-line shopping to start with. We are also still going through the process of logging photgraphs and history from our Company's 60 year history which we should also be able to display.

We are looking to finalise our production site by New Year from where we can offer a better back-up to our store and eventually on-line store. We are also looking to completely refurbish the shop as it is starting to look a little worn after 10 years at No.51. This includes making it a better environment for everyone and getting rid of those bottlenecks we currently have and customers having to wait less time to be served.

I hope this answers some of your questions and I hope that you will be able to view a little more than an 'under construction' page very soon.

cpeachey

Your shop clearly carries a lot of stock that is not on show. Several times I have e-mailed a query for something and the (quick) reply has always been positive. If the web page gave an overview of stock carried this would be helpful to customers who might think their chosen goodies were not stocked.
Service has always been quick but then I avoid lunchtimes!
Chris

Bern.

Hi Chris, thanks for your suggestion and comments. I will ensure we have a lot more information than we previously had with regard to the products we range.

andylav

I avoided a lunchtime on a Tuesday in early November but still stood like a lemon for over 30 minutes without any member of staff being available to assist me, before having to leave to catch a plane back home.

I had a few queries relating to size and finish options on the new Diamante (Dedacciai Rebel SL) frame, which I'm happy to admit were dealt with very quickly and professionally by email exchange afterwards (though the PDF brochure downloads that I was advised would be available on the website last week to consider standard geometry options are still not online).

I have, however, since found that I can get the same frame with custom geometry and naked carbon finish (my preference) for over £900 less than the Condor price from an online supplier. Price difference aside, the positive electronic communication that I have benefitted from does not negate my negative in-shop experience and it was this that led me to actively seek out alternative suppliers for this item.

Bern.

Hi Andylav, I am sorry to hear you had to wait such a long time to be served. As we are a busy store I would recommend that anyone with a short time window to call in advance so we can ensure a member of staff is free.

It is always difficult to tell what the footfall will be on any particular day or time of day and we can be quite one minute and hectic the next. We could make an appointment system, but we would never say to a customer that we cant serve them if they come in without one.

I am glad to hear that once contact was made you were dealt with in the correct manner.

The geometry will be going onto the website soon along with all of the new models, but we will not make it live until we are happy that it is set up correcly and all of the information is correct.

Be careful with companies who are offering wrapped carbon frames at low prices as there are a lot of manufacturers out there who have not developed the technique fully yet. I am not trying to put you off, just being honest as we have had many a broken sample wrapped frame from various sources and are now happy with the one company we use for carbon.

I hope your next in-shop experience will be a lot better.

MrGrumpy

I dare say its like alot of things some shops cheaper than others and vice versa some more expensive ! Its your money at the end of the day !

andylav

Cheers Bern

Thanks for the comments.

Just to clarify - the frame I can source at 1050 Euros is the Dedacciai Rebel SL, hand wrapped by the guys at Dedacciai to accommodate a 55 top tube in an otherwise Medium dimension frame and supplied in a naked carbon finish. The same frame that I was quoted £1699 to be supplied without forks, in custom geometry and naked carbon finish with Condor decals.

The same frame that Somec sell as the Divino, Guerciotti sell as the Khaybar, and Casati sell as the Marte (albeit with their unique damping hole in the top tube)

There are, of course, obvious potential issues with buying from Europe but from all immediate appearances, this is exactly the same frame at over £900 less.

I am, however, cynical by nature and it does seem too good to be true - which is why I'm doing more research .......

Shavedlegs

Hi Bern,

I've been to Condor and the service has been mixed but that's retail.

I'm not really bothered about on-line purchasing from you because I'd rather have a 'shopping experience' even if I have to be patient/assertive because you are busy. It would just be nice to be able to check your stock.

Guessing from Andylav's posts the internet is a mixed blessing for you, but you can't fight change. Good luck with getting everything sorted .

reverendmark

The new catalogue is onliine:
http://www.condorcycles.com/

Bern.

Hi Andylav, there are a number of differences between the models you are describing which to the untrained eye can seem confusing.

The Ribelle SL frame that is available from Dedacciai as a complete frame to various brands like Condor is a monocoque frame, not a hand wrapped frame. The difference being that the monocoque frame is not available in custom geometries. It is made in a 2 piece mould in a number of set sizes. This is not our Diamante frameset. We are using the Ribelle chasis for our Baracchi model which retails as a frame/fork/headset for £899, so is more in the price bracket you are mentioning.

Our version of this frame is supplied with a standard length seat tube, not an integrated one as advertised on the Dedacciai website. This is more popular with some of our customers as frames with integrated seat tubes are not so easy to transport in bike bags.

Our Diamante frame is made in a completely different way. It is made up of individual tubes that are different in shape and structure to the Ribelle SL. Dedacciai make a large number of carbon tubes in various styles, shapes and qualities that are used to make up different charicteristics in custom frames. We use 3 new tube shapes for the main triangle and the Drive seat and chainstays together to offer a stiffer ride compared to our Leggero model.

This frame can be made as a custom as each tube is cut individually, bonded together before being hand-wrapped with carbon around the joints. This has to be done in a specific way to obtain maximum strength from the join. Our builder has been perfecting this technique for many years now. A lot more time and effort goes into producing this frameset hence the extra cost. The fork is also far more advanced.

For the other brands you mention I have listed some more info below:

Somec Divino. This has the same front end as our Diamante, but with a cheaper, softer carbon rear triangle. This is a wrapped carbon frame, not monocoque, a good brand.

Casati Marte. I have always like Casati's style. The Marte is hand wrapped, but not with standard stock Dedacciai carbon tubes. I can't say if they are produced by Deda or not. It is not monocoque frame.

Geurciotti Khayber. I have found this has an rrp of £1739. This is a hand wrapped frame, hence the price. It is made with Deda Z108 main tubes(we use these on our Leggero model) with Ice Box rear triangle and supplied with Black Fin fork. I would class this as a cheaper version of our Leggero model as the rear triangle and fork are cheaper and less responsive.

I would prefer if the above could be compared for what they are. The cheaper frames are cheaper because they are either monocoque and not cusomizable or they are hand wrapped and more costly to produce. All of the above brands are good quality, but you have to be careful when comparing one against another when they are not the same.

If anyone wants a natural carbon monocoque frame at a budget price then the Ribelle SL frameset would be the best bet at £899. Please bear in mind that when sold as a complete bike package a saving of approximately 20% on the frame is included as well as free measuring service. This is not a sales pitch, just giving the whole picture.

Shavedlegs, thanks, we at Condor, more than anyone else want to be able to have all of our information available on-line and it will happen eventually. For now we have our new 2008 bike calalogue on-line. I hope this is the start of more to come. Our designer has been working extremely hard on this over the past few months. Our physical brochure is expected to be delivered within the next 7-10 days.

Best regards
Bern

andylav

Cheers Bern

I do appreciate that the Ribelle (Barrachi) and the Rebel SL (Diamante) are very different framesets, both in terms of cost and construction, and the frame that I can source from Germay is the hand wrapped, custom geometry Rebel SL (straight toptube and tear drop/aero integrated seat tube).

I am, however, very grateful for the clarification on the different rear end combinations, something I hadn't picked up on and didn't fully appreciate how each would affect the ride quality.

You've certainly given me plenty to think about.

Best regards

Andy

JWSurrey

Wow - Great to see the 2008 bikes on line.
Nice to see a few pictures of Grant's superb hairstyle!! I vote that he should wear a retro-wig for 2008

What a greatly improved line up and superb paintwork.
The new Frat. colour looks much better than the lemon/silver.
Damn - Can see myself coming back for another Squadra.
(Sticks head out of window and more enthused, considers Hell of the Ashdown training in the wind and rain).

gandalfcp

I can't say I'm terribly keen on the new colours for the Acciaio, I like the graphics but pink or purple?

Bern.

No problem Andylav, there are so many options available and it is not easy to distinguish between them. I have seen hundreds of tube shapes and have had the good(or bad) fortune to have had the opportunity to ride a good number of them. There are some very good and some very poor ones and it can be hard to tell by look alone. For us test riding is very important as we want to offer good value for money, but ride quality always comes first. This is where I would start or at least some feedback from others who have ridden your desired frame.

Thanks for the comments JWS, unfortunately I won't be able to make the Hell of the Ashdown as I will be at a wedding. Champagne or hill climbing?, mmmmmm........

ganndalfcp, Sorry you don't like the colours, they are such hard things to choose. We wanted some more 80's colours for this model. You may be happy to know that the pink was a very short run as our painter used an incorrect pantone no. and our main stock will be a pearl red. Any suggestions for colours are always more than welcome. we have used a lot of black and white this year as they are being requested a lot.

andylav

Thanks Bern

A Diamante in all white with the Condor decals applied before painting, to then be removed to allow the carbon weave to show through would be my choice. Or, classic plain carbon weave with high gloss laquer and a few subtle highlights in white and silver to complement white of silver keyline branding.

The blue and white that I saw in store is definitely much, much nicer than the purple in the brochure - but either of the above two options be my much preferred choice.

Andy

reverendmark

gandalfcp wrote:

I can't say I'm terribly keen on the new colours for the Acciaio, I like the graphics but pink or purple?

Ha! I rather like the look of the purple myself...

Does anyone here ride an Acciaio? I like the look of it, but am wondering if there's a considerable (noticeable) weight penalty in contrast to an alu/carbon frameset.

gandalfcp

Bern. wrote:

No problem Andylav, there are so many options available and it is not easy to distinguish between them. I have seen hundreds of tube shapes and have had the good(or bad) fortune to have had the opportunity to ride a good number of them. There are some very good and some very poor ones and it can be hard to tell by look alone. For us test riding is very important as we want to offer good value for money, but ride quality always comes first. This is where I would start or at least some feedback from others who have ridden your desired frame.

Thanks for the comments JWS, unfortunately I won't be able to make the Hell of the Ashdown as I will be at a wedding. Champagne or hill climbing?, mmmmmm........

ganndalfcp, Sorry you don't like the colours, they are such hard things to choose. We wanted some more 80's colours for this model. You may be happy to know that the pink was a very short run as our painter used an incorrect pantone no. and our main stock will be a pearl red. Any suggestions for colours are always more than welcome. we have used a lot of black and white this year as they are being requested a lot.

Sorry Bern I'm still a tad confused, the pink I'm not keen on is the one you had on show at the Cycle show in October, but the one on your new website looks the same i.e. pink as opposed to red.

The purple isn't so bad, but I would have thought that someone who would be attracted to a steel bike would probably be more likely to prefer more conservative colours? Dark metallic blue or the lighter blue you have on the Classico would get my vote.

Just my two penny worth anyway!

I still think it's a fantastic bike though.

andylav

Bern

A further, quick question about the Diamante, if I may please - weight in the brochure for the Diamante is quoted at 1300 grammes.

I'd be really grateful if you could confirm if this is a manufacturers quoted weight or one verified in-house by Condor ? I'd also like to know what size of frame the figure relates to and what is included (is it frame only, or frame plus seat clamp mechanism, or some other combination of core components) ?

Many thanks

Bern.

gandalfcp, the Acciaio at the show was the only example we had at the time and was painted with the wrong pantone so we had to use it for the show. Our first small batch was also this colour. Thankfully some customers like the pink so we should be okay.

The real colour will be red pearl so this is what our main stock will be. My personal choice is that all frames should be blue as it is my favourite. Please keep the colour suggestions comming as it is much harder than choosing the materials.

Andylav, Any custom option can be done within reason, i.e. as long as our painter can feasibly do it. Our decals are waterslide and if a custom colour is required it is not a problem. For custom, not all decals have to be used either, but it can be difficult replicating a paint scheme from one model to another as all of the decals are designed specifically to fit it's models tube shape.

If you ever feel you are not getting the right answers from our sales team, please ask to speak to someone more experienced.

The weight is from the first frame we had that was the finished article, it was 55cm(our geometry) and was including paint. A lot of manufacturers state weights without paint which can add up to 300g to a frame's weight(sad, but I have studied it). Fork weights are with uncut steerer so is normally less than stated. Seat clamp is not included in the calculation. I know of one builder who states the tubeset weight and not the frame weight.

The 55cm for the Diamante relates to to our standard sizing so the extended seat tube is added to this measurement. The actual seat tube on a 55cm is 80cm in total before it is custom cut.

kant314

good to hear Condor have got the situation in hand

alan_sherman

That Ti Gran fondo looks great - mudguard clearance for 28mm tyres, rack boss and frame weight of just 1400g! Also I like the etching false lug effect.

Are there any reviews out there? A £ a gram though - gulp, a complete bike would cost more than my car!

JWSurrey

Bern, I think the Condor wings on the new Frat would look even better if lightened-up - If you lost the black - more like the grey frame, it'd look a lot nicer.
Gran Fondo really hits the spot.
Bivio's pale colouring would look great if reversed - A pale "RAF blue" frame with a darker grey detailing - would be a tongue in cheek look in the direction of the Bianchi green too!

The WCF wings on the Italia would be great if a touch less thick in the stripes.
Perhaps a flatter less italic "Condor" on the downtube - more like the seat tube font?

The chainstay decals are a nice touch - remind me of the roundels on military aircraft. Would be great in WCF colours, or a little Union Jack.

I like the red/white/blue "London" or lines between the lettering on the seat tube - more of that please!

The lettering free track bike's "Condor" looked superb.
Team bike colours are fab. too - The simple black font on the white backdrop with pink ends.

Alan - Having bikes costing more than the car are a matter of honour - surely!

Dropped by the store - awesome line-up, and the Diamante is ultra-light.
Like the new water bottles - much better than last year's - Steal the design from Foska?!

jimmythecuckoo

reverendmark wrote:

The new catalogue is onliine:
http://www.condorcycles.com/

Nice

chip42

Hi Bern,are the new Baracchi and Leggero in the shop and what are your opening hours over Christmas.
Thanks
Andy