Creaking frame...could it be the carbon fork?

kant314

Hi,

I've had this creaking sound in my alu frame for several weeks now and have tried everything to get rid of the nosie ( see: http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtop ... t=12549925)

Anyway, I think I may have begun to isolate the problem.
The other day I re adjusted the headset and loosened it off. The creaking (which seems to travel up the tubes of an aluminium frame and makes it very difficult to issolate) got appreciably worse.

Then yesterday, I re-packed the headset (integrated, campag type) with grease and tightened it a tad more than before. The headset is now not stiff, but does not move as easily as it should if it were tightened correctly and slacked off a little bit.So it's a tad overly tight now.

However, the noise has nearly diminished , however it is still there.

Since the headset is new, I'm wondering if it could be the forks that are the problem. I've inspected them and they seem ok (ITM 4 Ever carbon with carbon steerer).
I'm thinking possibly the steerer could be deformed by over tightening of the stem, or maybe there is a small crack I can't see.

Does anyone have any ideas about what could be making the creaking noise? It's driving me round the bend to the point where I'm not cycling along looking at the scenery but neurotically listening out for any tiny noise that doesn't sound as if it should be there.


thanks for any help,
kant

Anonymous

It could be that the crown bearing race is not seated properly.

andylav

Or, unbelieveable as it may sound, the interface between the fork legs and the front wheel hub/axle (Kysrium wheels are notorious for this).

Take the wheel out, grease the inside of the dropout where the front hub makes contact, re-inert wheel and try. May not be the case with you but I had a similar experience that didn't go away when I installed a new headset - 2 mins in bikeshop with grease on hub and totally silent thereafter. Worth a try at least

kant314

andylav wrote:

Or, unbelieveable as it may sound, the interface between the fork legs and the front wheel hub/axle (Kysrium wheels are notorious for this).

Take the wheel out, grease the inside of the dropout where the front hub makes contact, re-inert wheel and try. May not be the case with you but I had a similar experience that didn't go away when I installed a new headset - 2 mins in bikeshop with grease on hub and totally silent thereafter. Worth a try at least

thanks for the advice, but this is one of the million things I have already tried

olr1

Does it get worse when you stand up?

Could be;
Bars in stem,
Stem on steerer,
spacers on steerer- carbon spacers esp.,
Headset, top or bottom races,
Crown race on headset on bottom of steerer,
Axle or QR on forks,

OR......











wait for it, cos I had to, after fannying about like a loon for weeks.........














Spokes in a tightly built factory wheel creaking in the rim, in which case the answer is to put a drop of oil on each spoke nipple, making sure it goes into the join between nipple and eyelet.

Down the Road

Why does your local QUALIFIED mechanic think?

andyp

Down the Road wrote:

Why does your local QUALIFIED mechanic think?

Because he exists? Or do I remember my philosophy quotes wrongly?

Anonymous

Down the Road wrote:

Why does your local QUALIFIED mechanic think?

Not quite got to grips with this forum lark have you?
It's called ' know-how ' for a reason.
Know How?
.... not 'where is the best place to pay to get my bike fixed?'

Down the Road

Yes but no-one here can diagnose the fault without seeing the bike

That is what MECHANICS are for. Or do you use a forum instead of seeing your doctor?

Let's get a forum going for I have a lump under my jaw do you think it is cancer or........


Give me a break use the expert not numpties on line Half of whom are employees of shops anyway.

andyp

However, the OP can diagnose the fault via suggestions on here.

There are reasons why some people may not be able to use an LBS;

- there isn't one locally
- they can't afford it
- they like to make their own repairs

Comparing diagnosing a creak with diagnosing cancer has to be the award winning quote of the day though.

pb21

Down the Road wrote:

Yes but no-one here can diagnose the fault without seeing the bike

That is what MECHANICS are for. Or do you use a forum instead of seeing your doctor?

Let's get a forum going for I have a lump under my jaw do you think it is cancer or........


Give me a break use the expert not numpties on line Half of whom are employees of shops anyway.

You cant fix cancer like you can a bike.

Down the Road

thanks for proving my point More people survive cancer than die from it.

Anonymous

Down the Road wrote:

Yes but no-one here can diagnose the fault without seeing the bike

That is what MECHANICS are for. Or do you use a forum instead of seeing your doctor?

Let's get a forum going for I have a lump under my jaw do you think it is cancer or........


Give me a break use the expert not numpties on line Half of whom are employees of shops anyway.

Well I haven't come across too many numpties on here,certainly not many who contradict themselves in one short sentence. :roll:

Smokin Joe

By "Professional Mechanic", I take it you mean the spotty faced yoof who hides out the back of most bike shops?

pjm-84

"Professional Mechanic",

Nope I think he means a person who:

Incorrectly installs a Campag 10 speed chains causing it to snap within the first 500metres
Forgets to tighten up chainset bolts
Forgets to tighten up the important side on the new Shimano chainset and the arms falls off when riding
Rebuilds a wheel and it works loose x2
Puts a bolt that's too long in the seatpost and therefore not allowing the saddle to be tightened sufficently causing the seat to move back over time and finally snapping a seat rail climbing the Aubisque - Etape 2005

What I do "love" about them is you get ......

"whose done your brakes, theeeeeerrrreee rubbish, you don't want to do it like that you want to do it like this................this want to be at 89.5 degrees and that should be 1mm higher, and your pads are worn, arh they're new, well they're rubbish, you want a pair of these...................., we sold to you, yeah well we don't stock those anymore because they're rubbish


Get my drift.

John C.

embarrassed to say this but I had a creak too, it turned out I had overtightened the stem onto the carbon steerer and crushed it. :oops:

Down the Road

Smokin Joe wrote:

By "Professional Mechanic", I take it you mean the spotty faced yoof who hides out the back of most bike shops?

No I mean Professionally trained and QUALIFIED to Cytech 2 or above standard.

Would you expect a doctor or a car mechanic to be untrained?

kant314

John C. wrote:

embarrassed to say this but I had a creak too, it turned out I had overtightened the stem onto the carbon steerer and crushed it. :oops:

Hey John,

That's one of the things I'm thinking about.
Did you have to get a new fork or just undo the stem a bit?

Smokin Joe

Down the Road wrote:

Smokin Joe wrote:

By "Professional Mechanic", I take it you mean the spotty faced yoof who hides out the back of most bike shops?

No I mean Professionally trained and QUALIFIED to Cytech 2 or above standard.

Would you expect a doctor or a car mechanic to be untrained?

Bicycles are not cars or human bodies. Anyone with a basic understanding of engineering principles and a bit of common sense can strip a bike to it's last componant part and re-assemble it so that it works perfectly.

This Cytech stuff seems to be part of the modern culture of education for educations sake.

Tuscanybill

I had a noise like this, and it was interesting, what I found was I had three things that turned out to be a factor.

1- In the original build up of the bike my LBS did not seat the crown race on the headset, I measuered .005inches under the one side with a feeler gage. When compleating the seating, the press fit was really snug, but I did get it down (I made a special driver to get it down) . Note: my LBS and the Mechanic are good friends, he really felt bad about this, remember we are all human.

2- My ITM stem turned out to have a .007inch out of prepindicular face on one side, I set it up on my lathe and faced both sides.

3- I use a max abount of spacers on my bike set-up, under my stem, this makes my stem a little more flexey than most, I machined up a solid insert (with a hole for the cap screew)that I install on top of my expander plug and gives the upper part of my stem much more support.

I am work as a machinest, and not many shops have the ability to do some of these things, but hopefully they may lead you to a resolution. Noises drive me nuts too, BTW my bike has been noise free for 2,000 miles.

Happy riding -- Bill

richardjallen

Down the Road wrote:

Would you expect a doctor or a car mechanic to be untrained?

Doctor - No
Car mechanic - Likely
Bicycle mechanic - Very likely

Almost nothing on my new build bike was tightened sufficiently. On the few occasions I have taken a bike in for repair there has always been something quite wrong afterwards. Once the tyres were flat another time they removed things that I specifically asked not to be removed and one break pad was falling off. The only thing that amazes me more is how I did not notice those things in the shop when I went to collect it.

Just because bikes are easy to fix does not mean it will be done properly. I think a person becomes accustomed to whatever level of expertise is required and then fails to achieve it. If a car mechanic were required to work on a bike they may have a chance of doing it right but not after doing it for any length of time.

John C.

kant314 wrote:

John C. wrote:

embarrassed to say this but I had a creak too, it turned out I had overtightened the stem onto the carbon steerer and crushed it. :oops:

Hey John,

That's one of the things I'm thinking about.
Did you have to get a new fork or just undo the stem a bit?

Afraid to say it was a new fork. This one has an alloy stearer.

kant314

Hi John,

When you say it was crushed, was it litterally crushed or just slightly deformed? When it was crushed, could the stem hold it tightly or not?

My carbon steerer tube looks a little compressed where the stem clamps to it, but the stem still seems to hold it ok.

Just wondering if it's worth getting a new fork.

thanks
Kant

dave noble

very common source of annoying creaks that seem to come from somewhere else is the saddle/seatpost fixing - worth a look.

John C.

kant314 wrote:

Hi John,

When you say it was crushed, was it litterally crushed or just slightly deformed? When it was crushed, could the stem hold it tightly or not?

My carbon steerer tube looks a little compressed where the stem clamps to it, but the stem still seems to hold it ok.

Just wondering if it's worth getting a new fork.

thanks
Kant

If it looks deformed get it checked out properly.