Sinkewitz dished dirt on T-Mobile (06 flavour)

iainf72

phil s wrote:

Just seems to me you relish any bad news that comes out of their camp. I symptahise with Stapleton, who is a nice guy. I think he is realising he bit off more than he realised but he's sticking with it and finding his way to a workable solution, even if there have been f*ck-ups along the way. That's a lot more than can be said for other teams, managers and riders. T-Mobile have many riders who are a credit to the sport - Hammond, Pinotti, Gerdemann, Wiggins to name a few. I cringe when there's bad news for the team because there are far shadier people out there who don't get the bashing T-Mob do

Being a nice guy is fine and well but maybe it's not what's required- Tyler Hamilton is a "nice guy".

Why is he believing Rogers when he's already learnt about how easily people lie and betray you from the doctors? He also believes Aldag's story, but based on what? Wouldn't it be prudent to remove the risk?

phil s

What makes Hamilton a nice guy? The fact that he likes puppies? All I'm saying is that there are a lot of critics relishing the sniping at T-Mob from the safety of an internet forum. Stapleton may be learning from tough mistakes but he is sticking it out. Running a team, employing people is not as easy as some people here would like to make out.

iainf72

phil s wrote:

What makes Hamilton a nice guy? The fact that he likes puppies? All I'm saying is that there are a lot of critics relishing the sniping at T-Mob from the safety of an internet forum. Stapleton may be learning from tough mistakes but he is sticking it out. Running a team, employing people is not as easy as some people here would like to make out.

A friend knows him and says he's a nice guy. Good enough for me. I don't doubt Bob is a nice guy, you've said it and so have others.

No one said it was easy Phil, but I've been critical of what T-Mobile have been doing since last year. The things I said would bite them then have and I'm just a guy on an internet forum, surely someone in charge of a team budget and people's livelihood should be extra mindful of this.

I too would feel sorry for the guys on the team because they're signing up believing something but is everything being done to protect their interests? Tell me honestly, would you sign one of the new riders on T-Mobile who shall remain nameless?

phil s

Hmm, twas an odd signing but I think some folk might want a break from the past, despite their previous alleged form. T-Mob does seem keen to offer a 2nd chance to people like that, where others would just want to crucify them.

Kléber

phil s wrote:

All I'm saying is that there are a lot of critics relishing the sniping at T-Mob from the safety of an internet forum. Stapleton may be learning from tough mistakes but he is sticking it out.

I can't speak for others but I'm not sniping. I'm just annoyed that we're getting a cleaner-than-thou rhetoric from the team, that they are leading the way. But there's a chasm between their rhetoric and their practices.

If you want to move things forward, you need to put the cards on the table, to confess. But staff and riders kept quiet for the sake of their jobs, those who confessed only did so when bounced into it. Riders like Honchar get quietly dropped, not exposed as dodgy fools.

Since they can't be open and honest, they need a testing regime but this has been exposed as weak and ineffective. To top this, they sign riders who are questionnable.

I really wish them well for 2007 but just want them to put in place some really concrete measures, to clear out the bent faces and to bring in a draconian regime.

iainf72

phil s wrote:

Hmm, twas an odd signing but I think some folk might want a break from the past, despite their previous alleged form. T-Mob does seem keen to offer a 2nd chance to people like that, where others would just want to crucify them.

That fine and noble, but the painful lesson they should've taken this year is the risks are too high.

dave_1

peddling_pilgrim wrote:

Dave_1 wrote:

Yeah, Armstrong avoids bike races now...he's never seen at them and he pulled his team out. I think he wants away from the spotlight. If he has a secret, then someone will know and tell one day surely?

LOL, here's LA at the TDF 2007, and of course you could find more pics at google or anywhere online for that matter, along with many other sketchy attempts at insinuation.

I also follow bike racing, and know that Armstrong showed up only for the TDF cause Contador was winning and he showed up for a stage of the Tour of Korea...Lance stays well away from professional bike racing other than when forced to attend...e.g. when a disco rider wins the TDF. I think he's scared to be around and attract the attention of Walsh, L'equipe and so on...and if he has a secret , someone will know it, the word "if" means no insinutation , just an if...a hypothetical

Kléber

Anyone can show up and pose for the cameras. What's interesting is that Armstrong shows up for the Tour these days but refused a lot of media access, turned down a lot of interviews. For a man with a brand (Nike) to promote, as well as his business interest in Discovery and the charity work, he's remarkably mute these days.

flattythehurdler

Hypertrophy of the jaw?

dave_1

Kléber wrote:

Anyone can show up and pose for the cameras. What's interesting is that Armstrong shows up for the Tour these days but refused a lot of media access, turned down a lot of interviews. For a man with a brand (Nike) to promote, as well as his business interest in Discovery and the charity work, he's remarkably mute these days.

I agree. He's keeping a low profile on purpose.... I was well aware he showed up for 48hrs at the end of the TDF 07..avoided the Giro and Vuelta, all the classics. I sincerely hope , having watched a family member die slowly of cancer over 3 years, that Armstrong has not given false hope. One looks at LA and thinks they can recover to their former life like him, be better in their job...,but with all the controversy around LA, I am left wondering what to believe. I have no proof he doped...but I have the right not to believe in him if I don't want to.

skavanagh.bikeradar

Dammit, I'm doing it again - agreeing with Iain. But, going back a few posts I'm convinced T-Mobile the cycling team (I should've gone for a Sherwen-esque Team T-Mobile there...maybe not...) have misjudged the Sinkewitz testimony and it's likely impact, especially in Germany, and the hiring of some allegedly dubious riders. The risks are high for them with their new clean image.

iainf72

Pat's done a Der Speigel interview, out Monday

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/other_s ... 076902.stm

So he was a student of Ferrari but the team doctors administered the drugs and blood. Interesting, maybe you can claim he provides you with training plans only. They may have wierd symbols on them but he doesn't provide anything.

Either Pat or Mick are lying somewhere in this mess.

iainf72

More

Interesting the sponsor are not pleased about some of the signings.

Kléber

They just can't escape from their past errors, can they.

In a way, it's a tale of luck, if the UCI testers had turned up a day earlier or later at the T-Mobile training camp, perhaps nothing would have been detected?

I do find it a shame that a team where the management is trying to harbour riders who want to ride clean is getting this bad treatment. Not that this makes past practices fine but we risk seeing a more honourable - but less than perfect team - fold, only for the likes of Quick-Step, Saunier Duval or Astana stay in the sport. And for me, that's a shame.

iainf72

Kléber wrote:

I do find it a shame that a team where the management is trying to harbour riders who want to ride clean is getting this bad treatment. Not that this makes past practices fine but we risk seeing a more honourable - but less than perfect team - fold, only for the likes of Quick-Step, Saunier Duval or Astana stay in the sport. And for me, that's a shame.

Mmmm, but they're not consistent are they.

The problem is they've kept riders who are probably dodgy AND make questionable hires. Remember when they went after Valverde?

iainf72

Bit more in the latest edition of cyclingnews

Of course the word was no doping!" he said. "I understood the message this way, 'don't get caught!'

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id= ... nov05news2

afx237vi

iainf72 wrote:

Mmmm, but they're not consistent are they.

The problem is they've kept riders who are probably dodgy AND make questionable hires. Remember when they went after Valverde?

Maybe, but they ended up NOT signing him. Why? They were easily capable of matching his wage demands, but perhaps he didn't meet certain other criteria that they wanted.

iainf72

afx237vi wrote:

Maybe, but they ended up NOT signing him. Why? They were easily capable of matching his wage demands, but perhaps he didn't meet certain other criteria that they wanted.

He said he was prepared to sign up to their "new way" (snort) but the team could not provide the support he needed (or something like that)

If I was a pro and hoped to actually do something in my career, I wouldn't sign with them. Either in the old guise or the new Stapleton version. If I wanted an Audi and a big paycheck for being average, show me the paper.

Rightly or wrongly, they can't be signing, or trying to sign, riders who have big question marks over their heads.

iainf72

The interview in English

http://www.spiegel.de/international/eur ... 59,00.html

LangerDan

Quick-Step come out of that worse then T-Mobile!

drenkrom

What's all this about no doping at Mapei?

timoid.

The more I read of him, the more I like him. Seems like a decent guy who went along with a system. He's not apologetic, granted, but his relief at being able to come clean comes through and that's a more realistic response in my book.

Also his testimony on Mapei would lead credence to the Evans is clean theory.

andyp

drenkrom wrote:

What's all this about no doping at Mapei?

The team owner, Dr Georgio Squinzi was quite outspoken in his comments on doping in cycling. Whether that meant there was no organised doping or not I've no idea.

iainf72

Timoid. wrote:

Also his testimony on Mapei would lead credence to the Evans is clean theory.

If you ignore the fact he rode for T-Mobile :P

afx237vi

I just finished reading the Rendell book on Pantani, and he seems to indicate that Mapei were one of the cleaner teams (agreeing to have their team being tested during the 98 Giro when all the other teams boycotted it, and Tafi being bullied in the peloton because he said they could come and test him whenever and wherever they liked.)

Really confused me, because I thought Mapei were the exact same team as Quick Step, who don't have the best of reputations.

jimmythecuckoo

It's starting to look a little bit grim for T-Mob now with the story on the homepage.

God knows where that would leave our boys in the squad if they do pull the plug.

The thing is though you couldn't really blame them if they did.

iainf72

jimmythecuckoo wrote:

It's starting to look a little bit grim for T-Mob now with the story on the homepage.

The team say "they're not pulling the plug" yet apparantly there is a meeting this week to decide what to do.

Here are my suggestions.

- Seriously consider replacing the management
- Buy questionable riders out of their current contracts
- Get a real anti-doping program

LangerDan

Iain - I see your buddy Stefan is at it again:-

"I can in no way confirm the supposition that the sponsor wants out," team spokesman Stefan Wagner told the dpa press agency.

That got me thinking. I'm sure I've hear something similar earlier this year - and I had. Stefan was obviously the inspiration for Pinnochio in Shrek the Third:

"Oh, on the contrary. I'm possibly more or less not definitely rejecting the idea that I undeniably do or do not know where he shouldn't probably be. If that indeed wasn't where he isn't! "

(Interesting to see that T-Mobile (the sponsor) are now pushing to have Aldag dumped from the team.)

skavanagh.bikeradar

Let's hope they see it as a wake up call and not an excuse to walk off. Although given the way the cycling team have carried on upto this point you could see why T-Mobile the company might not believe in them. Hopefully they will put a plan together to continue but they do need to address the three issues Iain raised above.

iainf72

LangerDan wrote:

(Interesting to see that T-Mobile (the sponsor) are now pushing to have Aldag dumped from the team.)

Oh oh - Where did you see that?