Congrats to Evans

dave_1

On winning the Pro Tour. I'm pleased to see his consistency has been rewarded...Di Luca doesn't deserve it, banned and bringing the sport into disgrace! Had Evans managed to pull off any of those absurd accelerations we saw out of Rasmussen and Contador in the TDF, I'd not be posting this. I reckon we are looking at a clean rider in Evans...of course whether he believes in being clean or is scared into being clean, who knows? But at least he's nothing special as a rider, simply a diesel that rode thereabouts all season..surely a good sign

iainf72

You just can't know though.

"Just a diesel" - What, like Ullrich?

Not saying he's clean or dirty but I don't think you can judge from his performances. He was a T-Mobile rider in addtion to Mapei and Saeco which were all "professional" teams (if you get my drift)

dave_1

iainf72 wrote:

You just can't know though.

"Just a diesel" - What, like Ullrich?

Not saying he's clean or dirty but I don't think you can judge from his performances. He was a T-Mobile rider in addtion to Mapei and Saeco which were all "professional" teams (if you get my drift)

But in Evans favour,
Ullrich was a joke in terms of form February-June and August onward to June...that's a sure sign for me. The Ullrich weight problems was used, perhaps by him, as an excuse for a drop in form, which we know was the result of withdrawing a massive doping regime out of grand tour season , which he needed to compete at Grand Tour level

LangerDan

I appreciate that is a "friend of a friend" link but one (in fact the only) Continent-based pro I know has a teammate who is on the Australian national squad with Evans and is adamant that Evans is clean.

Tenuous, perhaps, but for me it involves fewer degrees of separation than being told Wiggins or Gilbert are clean, for example.

Radsman

I thought consistency was actually a sign of dope use (especially in a three week tour).

Anyway, if Evans is clean, he must be an incredibly naturally strong cyclist to beat up on all those dopers. Either that or doping doesn't work that well.

eh

I'm not happy he is dull, dull, dull and annoying too boot.

On the doping question who knows although it is alleged from many with good insider knowledge that others in his team may be partial to the odd bit of the extra red stuff.

method

eh wrote:

I'm not happy he is dull, dull, dull and annoying too boot.

On the doping question who knows although it is alleged from many with good insider knowledge that others in his team may be partial to the odd bit of the extra red stuff.

Maybe being dull is the price you pay for being clean?

andyp

method wrote:

Maybe being dull is the price you pay for being clean?

The case for the prosecution gives you Carlos Sastre and Frank Schleck as evidence that you can be clean and aggressive in stage races.

eh

Doping or not doping ha slittle baring on racing aggression. You can ride a 3,4,J race aggressively (or not) and I can't imagine they are on anything stronger than a chicken korma.

vermooten

How long before Evans is caught out?

method

andyp wrote:

method wrote:

Maybe being dull is the price you pay for being clean?

The case for the prosecution gives you Carlos Sastre and Frank Schleck as evidence that you can be clean and aggressive in stage races.

I didn't realise they were.

andyp

method wrote:

I didn't realise they were.

They can provide more proof than Evans.

vermooten

method wrote:

I didn't realise they were.

yeah neither's been done for doping as far as I'm aware, nor has the dullard Evans.

iainf72

vermooten wrote:

method wrote:

I didn't realise they were.

yeah neither's been done for doping as far as I'm aware, nor has the dullard Evans.

As Andy said, Carlos and Frank can prove it a lot more than most. Their blood and hormone profiles are closely monitored by an external expert for any signs of naughtiness.

moray_gub

vermooten wrote:

method wrote:

I didn't realise they were.

yeah neither's been done for doping as far as I'm aware, nor has the dullard Evans.

neither has Di Luca.

cheers
MG

drenkrom

For me, it doesn't even get to the doping-or-not debates. As long as I'll see Evans shaking his head on a climb and saying he can't take a pull because he's cooked only to see him surge after the next attack, I will have a lot of difficulty admiring the guy. He pulls that one off all the friggin' time! That kind of stuff works on a singletrack climb in the woods, but it's not the way of the road.

dave_1

I'm not so new to the sport to assume Evans was clean at previous teams, or even feels riding clean now is right, but the lack of a peak in his season, a complete follower who can't attack, can't match some of the likely drug fueled attacks on climbs this season, who lasts all seasonwith steady form with none of the crap all season but for 3 weeks in July type evidence we have on Ullrich, Riis...that for me is reason to believe he's not juiced

andyp

With respect Dave - but you could have said the same about Basso in 2004 and 2005, i.e. steadily consistent for most of the season with no major peak. He was even held up by the UCI as a paragon of virtue with regards to his blood values.

Let's be straight - we have no idea if Evans is clean or not. He can say what he likes about being clean but he can't prove it to us unless he publishes his blood values monitored via an independent monitoring system. That is the state of the sport today.

dave_1

andyp wrote:

With respect Dave - but you could have said the same about Basso in 2004 and 2005, i.e. steadily consistent for most of the season with no major peak. He was even held up by the UCI as a paragon of virtue with regards to his blood values.

Let's be straight - we have no idea if Evans is clean or not. He can say what he likes about being clean but he can't prove it to us unless he publishes his blood values monitored via an independent monitoring system. That is the state of the sport today.

True, Basso does contradict my theory and we have know way of knowing what Evan's blood values were this season. Am just trying to compare Evans with the previous big names and at least everyone of them has had an amazing day..Ullrich 97 and 03 stages of TDF, LA Alpe Du Huez 01, Riis 96...Evans has no peak day, he seems stuck at one level. I do think change is on the way, so 08 could be much better

iainf72

Dave_1 wrote:

Evans has no peak day, he seems stuck at one level. I do think change is on the way, so 08 could be much better

Final TT in the TdF he seemed to be at a super human level, wouldn't you say?

BigSpecs

iainf72 wrote:

Dave_1 wrote:

Evans has no peak day, he seems stuck at one level. I do think change is on the way, so 08 could be much better

Final TT in the TdF he seemed to be at a super human level, wouldn't you say?

I think we are prone to forget that when Evans came on the scene he was a "pure climber" and crap in the TT. Thin as a rake as I remember? and then all of a sudden we have Phil & Paul eulogising about how he is a TT specialist and the expert against the clock. IMHO the race of truth is often a fair indicator of who is boosting and who is not. Look at Heras in the Vuelta...

Anonymous

Dave_1 wrote:

On winning the Pro Tour. I'm pleased to see his consistency has been rewarded...Di Luca doesn't deserve it, banned and bringing the sport into disgrace! Had Evans managed to pull off any of those absurd accelerations we saw out of Rasmussen and Contador in the TDF, I'd not be posting this. I reckon we are looking at a clean rider in Evans...of course whether he believes in being clean or is scared into being clean, who knows? But at least he's nothing special as a rider, simply a diesel that rode thereabouts all season..surely a good sign

Yep,consistenty sucking wheels,not doing his bit and never winning any races.
A great winner.

LangerDan

BigSpecs wrote:

iainf72 wrote:

Dave_1 wrote:

Evans has no peak day, he seems stuck at one level. I do think change is on the way, so 08 could be much better

Final TT in the TdF he seemed to be at a super human level, wouldn't you say?

I think we are prone to forget that when Evans came on the scene he was a "pure climber" and crap in the TT. Thin as a rake as I remember? and then all of a sudden we have Phil & Paul eulogising about how he is a TT specialist and the expert against the clock. IMHO the race of truth is often a fair indicator of who is boosting and who is not. Look at Heras in the Vuelta...

Far be it from me to let the facts get in the way of a good story, but Evans was winning TT stages and the Commonwealth games TT title five years ago. Fair enough, its no guarantee of cleanliness but its not as if he popped up as a TT'er in the past 6 months.

LangerDan

andyp wrote:

Let's be straight - we have no idea if Evans is clean or not. He can say what he likes about being clean but he can't prove it to us unless he publishes his blood values monitored via an independent monitoring system. That is the state of the sport today.

I have no issue with that approach whatsoever, as long as it can be applied across the board. Some folks take it as a personal affront should the same criteria be applied to, say Wiggins, Cavendish or Cooke.

iainf72

LangerDan wrote:

I have no issue with that approach whatsoever, as long as it can be applied across the board. Some folks take it as a personal affront should the same criteria be applied to, say Wiggins, Cavendish or Cooke.

Agreed.

Alhough this means we can only consider riders on Slipstream or CSC to be clean.

bikerbill

Who would be poor old Cadel Evans? An alleged wheel sucker all year and then when he wins a prize for said alleged wheel sucking, he becomes an alleged drug taker. Maybe it's just because he's Australian or something, who knows?

Bill

Ratkilla

Cadel. Well done and good on you.
Provably the most consistent rider of the season and therefore, on MERIT, deserves the jersey. Placed in the majors he deserves it.
Congratulation. Sante! Chapeau! As Duffers would say.

John Stevenson

eh wrote:

I'm not happy he is dull, dull, dull and annoying too boot.

Bit harsh that. He has been known to let his hair down. I've been in a mosh pit with him.

He doesn't come across very well on TV,but he's a perfectly nice bloke in person.

John Stevenson

BigSpecs wrote:

I think we are prone to forget that when Evans came on the scene he was a "pure climber" and crap in the TT. Thin as a rake as I remember? and then all of a sudden we have Phil & Paul eulogising about how he is a TT specialist and the expert against the clock. IMHO the race of truth is often a fair indicator of who is boosting and who is not. Look at Heras in the Vuelta...

If you dig through his results, he's actually always been a fairly decent time trial rider, though he's clearly worked on it in the last couple of years.

I suspect the 'pure climber' tag came from road cycling journalists who didn't really understand that to do well in mountain biking, yes, you have to be able to climb, but you also need to be able to TT because you're more or less on your own in a lot of a mountain bike race.

Monty Dog

I'm sorry, but he exhibits little passion and doesn't exactly liven up a race - you very rarerly see him take a pull or make and attack and I think his results are a fair reflection of his abilities and now we laud him for winning....nothing. From being an 'expert' MTB riders his initial years were characterised by his propensity to make bike handling errors and break his collarbone. The only memorable ride I can think of was his first Giro, where he took the pink jersey and then blew-up big stylee the next day to lose something like 20 minutes and hand victory to Savoldelli. As for Commonwealth Games TT champion - check the entrants, but beating Stuart Dangerfield hardly counts as 'world class'.

iainf72

Monty Dog wrote:

As for Commonwealth Games TT champion - check the entrants, but beating Stuart Dangerfield hardly counts as 'world class'.

No, but surely beating 3 time world TT champion Mick Rogers counts for something.