Contador

blownouttheback

I really hope that Alberto wins the GC for the sake of our beautiful sport. At the moment any other possibility will drag it back in the mire, where,as far as the press and public are concerned, it has been since last July.

Allez/Vamos/Venga

andyp

blownouttheback wrote:

I really hope that Alberto wins the GC for the sake of our beautiful sport. At the moment any other possibility will drag it back in the mire, where,as far as the press and public are concerned, it has been since last July.

Allez/Vamos/Venga

So this is the same Contador who was prevented from starting last year's Tour due to his involvement with Operacion Puerto?

Some people have very short memories...

Moose11

andyp wrote:

blownouttheback wrote:

I really hope that Alberto wins the GC for the sake of our beautiful sport. At the moment any other possibility will drag it back in the mire, where,as far as the press and public are concerned, it has been since last July.

Allez/Vamos/Venga

So this is the same Contador who was prevented from starting last year's Tour due to his involvement with Operacion Puerto?

Some people have very short memories...

People on his team were stopped from riding the tour and thus he didn't have enough team mates left to enter, it wasn't that he was involved in Operation Puerto, his name hasn't came up in it. (Or am I seriously wrong here?).

andyp

Moose11 wrote:

People on his team were stopped from riding the tour and thus he didn't have enough team mates left to enter, it wasn't that he was involved in Operation Puerto, his name hasn't came up in it. (Or am I seriously wrong here?).

You're seriously wrong. Five riders from Liberty Seguros/Astana were prevented by ASO from starting the Tour last year due to alleged involvement with Operacion Puerto, namely;

Joseba Beloki
Alberto Contador
Allan Davis
Isidro Nozal
Sergio Paulinho

iainf72

andyp wrote:

Moose11 wrote:

People on his team were stopped from riding the tour and thus he didn't have enough team mates left to enter, it wasn't that he was involved in Operation Puerto, his name hasn't came up in it. (Or am I seriously wrong here?).

You're seriously wrong. Five riders from Liberty Seguros/Astana were prevented by ASO from starting the Tour last year due to alleged involvement with Operacion Puerto, namely;

Joseba Beloki
Alberto Contador
Allan Davis
Isidro Nozal
Sergio Paulinho

Bertie is a notable one though, because Fuentes said publically he'd never worked with him. How many people can say that?

andyp

iainf72 wrote:

Bertie is a notable one though, because Fuentes said publically he'd never worked with him. How many people can say that?

He's the future of Spanish cycling so do you not think Fuentes said that to take the heat off him? Let's have a DNA test of the blood seized to confirm it. I bet Contador wouldn't be so keen on that.

iainf72

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id= ... aug17news2

This would suggest they were properly "cleared" of involvement last year.

andyp

Basso was "cleared" too though! :roll:

Deuce

Having to have a large blood clot removed from you brain, wouldn't having an elevated blood count put you at risk of this? Wouldn't the Doctor who administered any blood boosting want to distance himself as it would clearly be endangering public health?

timjohndavey

Deuce wrote:

Having to have a large blood clot removed from you brain, wouldn't having an elevated blood count put you at risk of this? Wouldn't the Doctor who administered any blood boosting want to distance himself as it would clearly be endangering public health?

Contador had a sub-arachnoid haemorrhage. The vascular anomaly responsible for this having been present since birth ,so a time bomb waiting to blow. Changes in his haematocrit, Hb level etc etc would not have contributed to it in any way.

top_bhoy

iainf72 wrote:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2006/aug06/aug17news2

This would suggest they were properly "cleared" of involvement last year.

From Matt Rendell (see a previous post of mine), rumours among the other journos seems to have Contador linked strongly to Operation Puerto and a cover up with Spanish Cycling not to mention or report his name in return for cooperation and info. I don't see Matt Rendell revealing that sort of stuff in public if there wasn't an element of truth in it.

Personally, I think he'll be the next one found doping!!

Monty Dog

Given Liberty Seguros prior reputation and that of Manolo Saiz, is anyone seriously suggesting that they're all clean? Is the same view that supposes that when Roberto Heras was riding for USPS he was clean for 2 years and it was only returning to LS the auspices of Manolo Saiz that he returned to the 'dark side'?

off the back

Also check out the following:
Some eyebrow raising performances perhaps ……

Stage 15 - http://www.53x12.com/do/show?page=indepth.view&id=88
Stage 14 - http://www.53x12.com/do/show?page=indepth.view&id=87
VAM explained - http://www.53x12.com/do/show?page=article&id=65

So both he and Rasmn climbing faster than Lance (and a load of dopers -Basso, Ullrich, Manchebo etc) could manage...hmm

oldwelshman

Yes looks like that now ras is out the, yellow goes to the best team at avoiding drug detection !!

off the back

You have to admit that if their was a prize for avoiding detection Discovery would win it hands down every year!

oh infact there is....... its the yellow jersey

ajohn9

Whats with all the disco bashing?....as ive said before, no one on that team has been caught doping, and i highly doubt they could "cover up" doping for so long

Eurostar

That has to be the most naive post I've seen here. Since when has failing a test been the sole indicator of who's doping? In Disco's case you might have been alerted by the fact that Bruyneel (disciple of Saiz, the doper in chief) hired Basso (another doper) when no one else would touch him, breaking the code of the AIGCP who later threw him out. I think you need to do a little background reading. You could start at cycling4all.com. They compiled a table ranking all the teams according to their anti-doping track record. Go to the home page, click on news, scroll down and click on 'AntiDoping behaviour of Pro Tour teams - 2007'. Disco is close to the bottom.

There are a few clues in this thread too: http://www.bikeradar.com/forum/viewtopi ... 9#14550069

Bruyneel's team is not known as the Disco Pharmacy or the Disco Doping Machine for nothing. Next thing you'll be telling us that Lance was clean.

oldwelshman

ajohn9 wrote:

Whats with all the disco bashing?....as ive said before, no one on that team has been caught doping, and i highly doubt they could "cover up" doping for so long

They used to test potential squad memers for hematocrit levels to see who performed the best with lowest level so they knew they could pump them up lol

I hope cadel Evans gets the 1:534 required to win, he may be a miserable bugger but probably the highest placed clean rider !!

off the back

As goes discovery clean- I take it you never saw the instant messenger conversation between johnny vaughters and Frankie Andreau.....
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id= ... /oct16news

Then throw in Lances B-samples turning up positive from 1999 or was it 2000.

Then add how all Disco riders leave and get caught. Landis, Heras, Hamilton. So they are kick ass in Disco then leave and suddenly need to take drugs.

Then the whole Basso affair. Here is rider that the dogs on teh street know is dodgey and first off before the tour 2006 they want him removed. Then he becomes available and they want him on their squad despite a verbal agreement with all teams no to pick him up. Then they offer the DNA sample at a time when they know it can never be requested. In short there is no morals, ethics there!!

By the way the instant msg converstion is one of my fav pieces I have read on doping cause it shows yes you can read clean!!! So all the talk about Cadel Evans wheel sucking - what do you expect him to do when riding against 'super human' riders.

Vive le tour - despite all the media trash talk I think it is getting better. look at wiggins two weeks in getting 4th in TT :-) and Evans on podium and maybe more!

Monty Dog

Agree with OTB - the amount of anecdotal evidence is over-whelming - never being tested 'positive' is not an indication of being clean, just demonstration of an effective preparation and management programme. The reason that we don't get to hear half the information is the fact that there are a team of expensive lawyers slapping suits on anyone who cares to speak out of turn - regardless of whether it's the truth or not, they just can't afford to fight the action. Look at the threats that Lemond received from the President of Trek when he initially threatened to 'speak out' against drugs. If some of you choose to believe in the 'myth' of the angry young man fuelled by passion alone he can overcome known substance abusers - I suppose you also believe in Father Christmas, the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy too?

rdaviesb

Lets just hope that Cadel Evans does the business today.

iainf72

off the back wrote:

As goes discovery clean- I take it you never saw the instant messenger conversation between johnny vaughters and Frankie Andreau.....
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id= ... /oct16news

Thing that makes me laugh about Frankie Andreau is when he used EPO for the 99 Tour, he did it off his own back, not through some super USPS doping program. He went to Switzerland, reached into his pocket and bought some EPO

shannyla

oldwelshman wrote:

ajohn9 wrote:

Whats with all the disco bashing?....as ive said before, no one on that team has been caught doping, and i highly doubt they could "cover up" doping for so long

They used to test potential squad memers for hematocrit levels to see who performed the best with lowest level so they knew they could pump them up lol

I hope cadel Evans gets the 1:534 required to win, he may be a miserable bugger but probably the highest placed clean rider !!

What, the same Evans that was successful during XC racing's dirtiest period?

Meirhage, Martinez, Chiotti and the rest? Evans is no better than the rest of them and a boring little wheelsucker to boot.

The Dr

Shannyla...........it is the easiest thing in the world to criticise someone else. You assume that because Cadel beat these cheating riders that he himself was cheating?? Have you though that maybe he achieved these resuts thorugh plain old hard work, and talent?

shannyla

The Dr wrote:

Shannyla...........it is the easiest thing in the world to criticise someone else. You assume that because Cadel beat these cheating riders that he himself was cheating?? Have you though that maybe he achieved these resuts thorugh plain old hard work, and talent?

Oh, for sure, just incredibly unlikely. My main concern with Evans is that apart from being a whining little twat, he is the least classy of bike racers. Did he make a single attack in the whole Tour? Not that I can remember.

And what's most depressing is that he was a reasonably stylish XC racer that would go for the big attack, whilst still suffering from a charisma bypass. To be honest, I don't even really care if the peleton is doping if the future would be 145 Cadel Evans at the depart. And I love the fact that all over the Interwebnet Evans is being portrayed as the one true deity. I don't know if any of you noticed, but he wasn't far behind the alledgedly hopped-up leaders, and in front of many rumored drug fiends.

And yes, I have met him in real life and he was no more appealing there than he appears in Tellyworld

notanotherhill

Guys am i alone in noticing that the guy wearing the polka dot jersey (and we all know what that competition is for) couldnt stay with Contador on the climbs.
Bide you time, Contador will fail a sample, and another nail will be put in the coffin of pro cycling

campagchris

Franke claims Contador involved in Puerto cover-up
German anti-doping crusader Werner Franke has claimed to be in possession of incriminating documents which, he says, proves Tour de France winner Alberto Contador was involved in Operación Puerto. Franke described the Spaniard's victory as "the greatest swindle in sporting history", before going on to claim the documents not only list Contador but also the substances

"The name of this Mr Contador appears on several occasions on the court and police documents," he told German television station ZDF. "All of this has been simply concealed and hidden under the carpet while the name Contador was erased from the list of supicious riders."

Franke claims to be in possession of a detailed list of performance enhancing and banned products used by Contador, which appear in sworn statements following the raid on Fuentes' medical practice.

"He took insulin, HMG-Lepori, a hormone to stimulate the secretion of testosterone and also a product for asthma called TGN - in brief I have before my eyes a protocol for doping," he said. "All of this has been covered up, at least in Spain."

When questioned on how he came into possession of such documents, Franke refused to give away any information. "They simply landed in my briefcase, that happens sometimes, and I promptly handed them over the Bundeskriminalamt {the German national police

leguape

Any chance of something a little bit more substantial that nudge and a wink on defaming Disco? No, thought not.

Vaughters admitted that everything in that IM conversation was entirely anecdotal and stuff that he had been told second hand as gossip and that no, he could not in any way support those allegations.

ex-Disco riders testing positive? Ever considered that they all have one thing in common: they went from being domestiques who only had the get as far as the bottom of the last climb and ramp it up to team leaders who had to finish the climb. Surprisingly it gets a bit tougher so they turn to something extra to get them there.

Lance positive tests? You mean the ones which the lab admits were entirely unreliable due to the samples being part of a batch on which they were trialling the EPO tests introduced in 2000?

If Disco were such heathen dopers it's rather surprising that I cannot recall once a single story about the Disco hotel being raided by gendarmes with warrants under the French sporting fraud laws which have existed long enough for it to have happened several years running. Remember this is a team that, if you believe the hype, were reviled by the French for winning their competition. Of course "it was all done away from the hotel" etc. Yep, and with the hundreds of hacks on the TDF not one noticed people sneaking out of the hotel?


Franke defended Danilo Hondo claiming that i was ridiculous for him to have tested positive as the substance was only available in the Russian and Chinese military and space programmes. He also claimed that the reason for the substance appearing in his sample was a contaminated waterbottle. The substance in question is available under a licenced brand name on prescription in Russia.

Franke is also involved with Jacshe who is seemingly trying to minimise his own punishment for doping by being a helpful witness to nati-doping investigators

Rasmussen and Contador climb faster than Armstrong, well duh! They are both climbers by nature and between about 5 and15kg less than Armstrong did at race weight. Same power output, or even less will therefore give a much higher power to weight ratio, ergo ability to go faster up mountains.

See I'm all in favour of dopers getting their just sentence when caught but I'm also piss tired of hearing cyclists banging on about how the sport is unfairly seen as a doper's sport while indulging in the sort of shonky gossip running down the sport.

EDIT: And Matt Rendell, much as he is a respected hack came to what I thought was a wildly flailing conclusion that Marco Patani was driven towards his death due, in part, to being in the closet about his sexuality.

There's a reason that very few of these allegations make it into print and are stood up long term: because there is often scant evidence to support them.

Deuce

To reply about Matt Rendall, his book was mostly well argued evidence about Marco Pantani being doped from before he even turned pro and he speculated about his narcissism but his sexuality was clearly mentioned as rumours (tranvestite prostitutes ot just painted fingernails) that he could not find any supporting evidence for.

cougie

I'd love to believe that Disco were a clean team - but look at who else has been busted. Just about all his rivals, and yet he beat them every year.

In a level playing field - I think Lance would win. I just cant see that he could beat the dopers and ride cleanly.

Maybe I'm a cynic - but can you blame me ?

Zero Sum

I have heard, and read that HGH use does funny things to your teeth, I read different things but some say that it can make your teeth continue to grow...

Just look at A.Cs gnashers...