Refugees Channel crossing

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Rick Chasey
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Re: Refugees Channel crossing

Postby Rick Chasey » Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:19 pm

oxoman wrote:Any boats seized with illegal immigrants in should be seized and destroyed to stop re-use, people encouraging them to come over illegally should be prosecuted and jailed and that includes lieing devious politicians and do gooders. Rant overr


For the record, refugees are, by definition, not illegal immigrants.

Not really sure why you're discussing illegal immigrant in a discussion about refugees.

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bradsbeard
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Re: Refugees Channel crossing

Postby bradsbeard » Thu Sep 12, 2019 13:11 pm

PBlakeney wrote:
bradsbeard wrote:Shouldn't asylum be claimed at the first EU country you encounter? If your that desperate to flee persecution then why do you want to come to the UK?

Economic migrants.

Sorry to be harsh but need to be returned back to France.

Really?
Are you sorry? I have my doubts.


You know your probably right.

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Veronese68
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Re: Refugees Channel crossing

Postby Veronese68 » Thu Sep 12, 2019 13:16 pm

Rick Chasey wrote:
oxoman wrote:Any boats seized with illegal immigrants in should be seized and destroyed to stop re-use, people encouraging them to come over illegally should be prosecuted and jailed and that includes lieing devious politicians and do gooders. Rant overr

For the record, refugees are, by definition, not illegal immigrants.
Not really sure why you're discussing illegal immigrant in a discussion about refugees.

Because people don't know the difference. I once had to listen to an idiot droning on about refugees and illegal immigrants claiming benefits and taking jobs. The fact that illegal immigrants can't claim as they are illegal was completely lost on him. It eventually became apparent he was talking about Eastern Europeans being here completely legally and working, he finished by saying he was fed up of it and if it carried on he would move to France. Making him exactly the same as those he was complaining about. I would have pointed out the error of his ways but had to bite his tongue as he was a customer.
Immigrants are different to ex-pats in some tiny minds.

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TheBigBean
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Re: Refugees Channel crossing

Postby TheBigBean » Thu Sep 12, 2019 13:17 pm

rjsterry wrote:
Pross wrote:Hmm, it's a tricky one (suprisingly). If you take the view 'they've risked their lives to get here, we should let them stay' then surely you would be encouraging others to also risk their lives in an attempt to get here. I would say the first step is to try to understand why the UK is perceived to be preferable to any other safe country they've already travelled through but also to ensure we are taking our fair share of refugees from the countries they arrive at.

Having been refused asylum in Italy, France and the Netherlands, where would you try next?


I doubt many will have already tried to claim asylum. I would imagine many prefer the UK, because they have already have family or a community in the UK. Also, it may be easier to disappear in the UK as there is no requirement to have an ID card. Finally, the UK has various policies / case law in place which means that it is impossible to deport people to various countries, so if you are of a certain nationality (or can claim to be), then you know you will not be deported irrespective of the legitimacy of your claim. I am not sure how this works with other EU countries though.

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Pross
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Re: Refugees Channel crossing

Postby Pross » Thu Sep 12, 2019 13:18 pm

oxoman wrote:Personally the Aussies have the right way, you want to work and integrate fully and have proper job to come to then no problem otherwise tuff love return to previous departure point. Any boats seized with illegal immigrants in should be seized and destroyed to stop re-use, people encouraging them to come over illegally should be prosecuted and jailed and that includes lieing devious politicians and do gooders. Rant over


Yet another person unable to understand the difference between immigrants and refugees. If they are able to demonstrate refugee status then they are able to stay.

Australia is signed up to the same UNHCR Convention on refugees as the UK and most other countries. It's not actually the case under that convention or EU law that a refugee has to claim asylum in the first safe country they reach although the country they do claim asylum in can seek to return them to a different safe country.

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rjsterry
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Re: Refugees Channel crossing

Postby rjsterry » Thu Sep 12, 2019 13:18 pm

bradsbeard wrote:
PBlakeney wrote:
bradsbeard wrote:Shouldn't asylum be claimed at the first EU country you encounter? If your that desperate to flee persecution then why do you want to come to the UK?

Economic migrants.

Sorry to be harsh but need to be returned back to France.

Really?
Are you sorry? I have my doubts.


You know your probably right.


Any luck finding something to back up that 95% claim?
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rjsterry
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Re: Refugees Channel crossing

Postby rjsterry » Thu Sep 12, 2019 13:20 pm

Pross wrote:
oxoman wrote:Personally the Aussies have the right way, you want to work and integrate fully and have proper job to come to then no problem otherwise tuff love return to previous departure point. Any boats seized with illegal immigrants in should be seized and destroyed to stop re-use, people encouraging them to come over illegally should be prosecuted and jailed and that includes lieing devious politicians and do gooders. Rant over


Yet another person unable to understand the difference between immigrants and refugees. If they are able to demonstrate refugee status then they are able to stay.

Australia is signed up to the same UNHCR Convention on refugees as the UK and most other countries. It's not actually the case under that convention or EU law that a refugee has to claim asylum in the first safe country they reach although the country they do claim asylum in can seek to return them to a different safe country.


We also already have something pretty close to the Australian system for non-refugee non-EU. immigration.
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bradsbeard
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Re: Refugees Channel crossing

Postby bradsbeard » Thu Sep 12, 2019 13:24 pm

rjsterry wrote:
bradsbeard wrote:
PBlakeney wrote:
bradsbeard wrote:Shouldn't asylum be claimed at the first EU country you encounter? If your that desperate to flee persecution then why do you want to come to the UK?

Economic migrants.

Sorry to be harsh but need to be returned back to France.

Really?
Are you sorry? I have my doubts.


You know your probably right.


Any luck finding something to back up that 95% claim?


BBC quote most arriving present as Iranian. I cannot recall where I read the 95% claim but reading gives an indication that most are Iranian.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-49662172

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Pross
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Re: Refugees Channel crossing

Postby Pross » Thu Sep 12, 2019 13:35 pm

bradsbeard wrote:
rjsterry wrote:
bradsbeard wrote:
PBlakeney wrote:
bradsbeard wrote:Shouldn't asylum be claimed at the first EU country you encounter? If your that desperate to flee persecution then why do you want to come to the UK?

Economic migrants.

Sorry to be harsh but need to be returned back to France.

Really?
Are you sorry? I have my doubts.


You know your probably right.


Any luck finding something to back up that 95% claim?


BBC quote most arriving present as Iranian. I cannot recall where I read the 95% claim but reading gives an indication that most are Iranian.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-49662172


There's a linked article going back to last November about 100 immigrants claiming to be Iranian attempting to cross the Channel. My reading of the article is that they aren't necessarily Iranian but are claiming to be as that allowed them visa free entry into Serbia, where they were far better treated than Iraqis, Afghans, Syrians etc., before travelling on to the UK.

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rjsterry
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Re: Refugees Channel crossing

Postby rjsterry » Thu Sep 12, 2019 13:44 pm

Pross wrote:
bradsbeard wrote:
rjsterry wrote:
bradsbeard wrote:
PBlakeney wrote:
bradsbeard wrote:Shouldn't asylum be claimed at the first EU country you encounter? If your that desperate to flee persecution then why do you want to come to the UK?

Economic migrants.

Sorry to be harsh but need to be returned back to France.

Really?
Are you sorry? I have my doubts.


You know your probably right.


Any luck finding something to back up that 95% claim?


BBC quote most arriving present as Iranian. I cannot recall where I read the 95% claim but reading gives an indication that most are Iranian.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-49662172


There's a linked article going back to last November about 100 immigrants claiming to be Iranian attempting to cross the Channel. My reading of the article is that they aren't necessarily Iranian but are claiming to be as that allowed them visa free entry into Serbia, where they were far better treated than Iraqis, Afghans, Syrians etc., before travelling on to the UK.

Quite a big difference between "some" and "95%".
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Longshot
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Re: Refugees Channel crossing

Postby Longshot » Thu Sep 12, 2019 14:21 pm

Veronese68 wrote:I once had to listen to an idiot droning on about refugees and illegal immigrants claiming benefits and taking jobs. The fact that illegal immigrants can't claim as they are illegal was completely lost on him. It eventually became apparent he was talking about Eastern Europeans being here completely legally and working, he finished by saying he was fed up of it and if it carried on he would move to France.


France?! :lol: They have a worse immigration problem than we do.

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Rick Chasey
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Re: Refugees Channel crossing

Postby Rick Chasey » Thu Sep 12, 2019 14:22 pm

Longshot wrote:
Veronese68 wrote:I once had to listen to an idiot droning on about refugees and illegal immigrants claiming benefits and taking jobs. The fact that illegal immigrants can't claim as they are illegal was completely lost on him. It eventually became apparent he was talking about Eastern Europeans being here completely legally and working, he finished by saying he was fed up of it and if it carried on he would move to France.


France?! :lol: They have a worse immigration problem than we do.


What's the problem?

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bradsbeard
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Re: Refugees Channel crossing

Postby bradsbeard » Thu Sep 12, 2019 14:27 pm

Pross wrote:
bradsbeard wrote:
rjsterry wrote:
bradsbeard wrote:
PBlakeney wrote:
bradsbeard wrote:Shouldn't asylum be claimed at the first EU country you encounter? If your that desperate to flee persecution then why do you want to come to the UK?

Economic migrants.

Sorry to be harsh but need to be returned back to France.

Really?
Are you sorry? I have my doubts.


You know your probably right.


Any luck finding something to back up that 95% claim?


BBC quote most arriving present as Iranian. I cannot recall where I read the 95% claim but reading gives an indication that most are Iranian.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-49662172


There's a linked article going back to last November about 100 immigrants claiming to be Iranian attempting to cross the Channel. My reading of the article is that they aren't necessarily Iranian but are claiming to be as that allowed them visa free entry into Serbia, where they were far better treated than Iraqis, Afghans, Syrians etc., before travelling on to the UK.


Okay but tell me why not give your real nationality to UK border officials rather than still claim to be Iranian?

Not just BBC article from last year stating but plenty if you Google going back 2 days. Most present as Iranian and Iraqi.

Anyway you can be from Timbuktu still doesn't alter it's a bloody daft way to try and gain entry.

Longshot
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Re: Refugees Channel crossing

Postby Longshot » Thu Sep 12, 2019 14:28 pm

Rick Chasey wrote:
Longshot wrote:
Veronese68 wrote:I once had to listen to an idiot droning on about refugees and illegal immigrants claiming benefits and taking jobs. The fact that illegal immigrants can't claim as they are illegal was completely lost on him. It eventually became apparent he was talking about Eastern Europeans being here completely legally and working, he finished by saying he was fed up of it and if it carried on he would move to France.


France?! :lol: They have a worse immigration problem than we do.


What's the problem?


I was thinking about it from the point of view of the guy who was leaving the UK because of immigration - I'm assuming he sees it as a problem.

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thegreatdivide
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Re: Refugees Channel crossing

Postby thegreatdivide » Thu Sep 12, 2019 14:30 pm

bradsbeard wrote:
PBlakeney wrote:
bradsbeard wrote:Shouldn't asylum be claimed at the first EU country you encounter? If your that desperate to flee persecution then why do you want to come to the UK?

Economic migrants.

Sorry to be harsh but need to be returned back to France.

Really?
Are you sorry? I have my doubts.


You know your probably right.


I'm sure quite a few of them can spell better than you.
#f*ckwit

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thegreatdivide
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Re: Refugees Channel crossing

Postby thegreatdivide » Thu Sep 12, 2019 14:32 pm

Here's an eye opening documentary some of you need to watch:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0007sws

You can view it while you iron your England bed spreads.
#f*ckwit

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bradsbeard
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Re: Refugees Channel crossing

Postby bradsbeard » Thu Sep 12, 2019 14:46 pm

thegreatdivide wrote:
bradsbeard wrote:
PBlakeney wrote:
bradsbeard wrote:Shouldn't asylum be claimed at the first EU country you encounter? If your that desperate to flee persecution then why do you want to come to the UK?

Economic migrants.

Sorry to be harsh but need to be returned back to France.

Really?
Are you sorry? I have my doubts.


You know your probably right.


I'm sure quite a few of them can spell better than you.


Probably. And?

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Rick Chasey
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Re: Refugees Channel crossing

Postby Rick Chasey » Thu Sep 12, 2019 14:49 pm

Longshot wrote:
Rick Chasey wrote:
Longshot wrote:
Veronese68 wrote:I once had to listen to an idiot droning on about refugees and illegal immigrants claiming benefits and taking jobs. The fact that illegal immigrants can't claim as they are illegal was completely lost on him. It eventually became apparent he was talking about Eastern Europeans being here completely legally and working, he finished by saying he was fed up of it and if it carried on he would move to France.


France?! :lol: They have a worse immigration problem than we do.


What's the problem?


I was thinking about it from the point of view of the guy who was leaving the UK because of immigration - I'm assuming he sees it as a problem.


Yeah. I just like to make people articulate what the problems are. Then it's easier to see whether they're worth solving or not.

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Rolf F
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Re: Refugees Channel crossing

Postby Rolf F » Thu Sep 12, 2019 14:56 pm

bradsbeard wrote:
Pross wrote:
bradsbeard wrote:
rjsterry wrote:
bradsbeard wrote:
PBlakeney wrote:
bradsbeard wrote:Shouldn't asylum be claimed at the first EU country you encounter? If your that desperate to flee persecution then why do you want to come to the UK?

Economic migrants.

Sorry to be harsh but need to be returned back to France.

Really?
Are you sorry? I have my doubts.


You know your probably right.


Any luck finding something to back up that 95% claim?


BBC quote most arriving present as Iranian. I cannot recall where I read the 95% claim but reading gives an indication that most are Iranian.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-49662172


There's a linked article going back to last November about 100 immigrants claiming to be Iranian attempting to cross the Channel. My reading of the article is that they aren't necessarily Iranian but are claiming to be as that allowed them visa free entry into Serbia, where they were far better treated than Iraqis, Afghans, Syrians etc., before travelling on to the UK.


Okay but tell me why not give your real nationality to UK border officials rather than still claim to be Iranian?

Not just BBC article from last year stating but plenty if you Google going back 2 days. Most present as Iranian and Iraqi.

Anyway you can be from Timbuktu still doesn't alter it's a bloody daft way to try and gain entry.


Because they've got all this way having claimed to be Iranian and they are scared that if they don't continue to do so it might work out the worse for them? They probably don't have the support of the Bikeradar forum to help them make the most rational decisions in stressful situations.
Faster than a tent.......

Tangled Metal
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Re: Refugees Channel crossing

Postby Tangled Metal » Thu Sep 12, 2019 14:58 pm

I wad staying with relatives in Athens decades ago when I befriended a Lebanese guy. Bearing in mind it was the time if the Israelis proxy war in Lebanon and not long after they released Terry waite.

He was a very nice guy but completely illegal immigrant since refugee status was removed. He was a hard worker send helped provide for his family (dad was dead iirc). However he was trying not to be noticed and sent back.

He was a conscript into the artillery. Put simply it was flee or fight. The latter would mean death. Still technically he was always at risk if deportation.

I don't think I have a point here other than I met a very nice illegal immigrant who was contributing to the country he fled to. While doing that he provided for his family ( mother and siblings). I only found out later when he generously bought us a coffee it was with his last money and he had to walk home for many hours without the trolley bus fare.

Ok my point is that anti immigration arguments totally forget that it's just people. We're not talking about monsters we need to keep out. It's people like us. Even economic migrants are people like us. Why are they not fit to have the same western life as us? Perhaps people would benefit from a life swap with them.


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