Refugees Channel crossing

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Slowmart
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Refugees Channel crossing

Postby Slowmart » Thu Sep 12, 2019 07:33 am

Watching the news makes me think there has to be a better more humane way of effectively handling the issue.

I see families and individuals seeking a better life and risking everything to get to the UK.
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Rolf F
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Re: Refugees Channel crossing

Postby Rolf F » Thu Sep 12, 2019 09:05 am

Slowmart wrote:Watching the news makes me think there has to be a better more humane way of effectively handling the issue.

I see families and individuals seeking a better life and risking everything to get to the UK.


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Pross
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Re: Refugees Channel crossing

Postby Pross » Thu Sep 12, 2019 09:10 am

Hmm, it's a tricky one (suprisingly). If you take the view 'they've risked their lives to get here, we should let them stay' then surely you would be encouraging others to also risk their lives in an attempt to get here. I would say the first step is to try to understand why the UK is perceived to be preferable to any other safe country they've already travelled through but also to ensure we are taking our fair share of refugees from the countries they arrive at.

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rjsterry
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Re: Refugees Channel crossing

Postby rjsterry » Thu Sep 12, 2019 09:17 am

Pross wrote:Hmm, it's a tricky one (suprisingly). If you take the view 'they've risked their lives to get here, we should let them stay' then surely you would be encouraging others to also risk their lives in an attempt to get here. I would say the first step is to try to understand why the UK is perceived to be preferable to any other safe country they've already travelled through but also to ensure we are taking our fair share of refugees from the countries they arrive at.

Having been refused asylum in Italy, France and the Netherlands, where would you try next?
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Shirley Basso
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Re: Refugees Channel crossing

Postby Shirley Basso » Thu Sep 12, 2019 09:20 am

Pross wrote:Hmm, it's a tricky one (suprisingly). If you take the view 'they've risked their lives to get here, we should let them stay' then surely you would be encouraging others to also risk their lives in an attempt to get here. I would say the first step is to try to understand why the UK is perceived to be preferable to any other safe country they've already travelled through but also to ensure we are taking our fair share of refugees from the countries they arrive at.


pretty much this.

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Re: Refugees Channel crossing

Postby john80 » Thu Sep 12, 2019 09:21 am

Pross wrote:Hmm, it's a tricky one (suprisingly). If you take the view 'they've risked their lives to get here, we should let them stay' then surely you would be encouraging others to also risk their lives in an attempt to get here. I would say the first step is to try to understand why the UK is perceived to be preferable to any other safe country they've already travelled through but also to ensure we are taking our fair share of refugees from the countries they arrive at.


A lot of it is to do with the fact we speak English. Most refugees primary second language will be English and in terms of ease of integration it is much easier to use English for these people than learn German, French etc. as a third language. We could also be argued are more liberal and accommodating than other nations. For example try going down the local Spanish council equivalent looking for a house and not speaking Spanish to give one example. The idea that they would provide a translator for anything other than criminal charges is not even a consideration for some other nations.

The other problem refugees have is that they are claiming asylum from essentially acts of aggression or persecution in the home nation. By the time they get to France they have already passed a number of European nations where they would be safe. After this it is a personal choice mainly driven by language skills and associated economics.

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bradsbeard
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Re: Refugees Channel crossing

Postby bradsbeard » Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:13 am

Shouldn't asylum be claimed at the first EU country you encounter? If your that desperate to flee persecution then why do you want to come to the UK?

Economic migrants.

Sorry to be harsh but need to be returned back to France.

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rjsterry
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Re: Refugees Channel crossing

Postby rjsterry » Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:34 am

bradsbeard wrote:Shouldn't asylum be claimed at the first EU country you encounter? If your that desperate to flee persecution then why do you want to come to the UK?

Economic migrants.

Sorry to be harsh but need to be returned back to France.


Except that means that Turkey, Greece, Italy and Spain end up shouldering the entire burden of migration across the Mediterranean. That's not really fair on our neighbours given that we were actively involved in the conflicts in Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya.
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Pross
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Re: Refugees Channel crossing

Postby Pross » Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:39 am

rjsterry wrote:
Pross wrote:Hmm, it's a tricky one (suprisingly). If you take the view 'they've risked their lives to get here, we should let them stay' then surely you would be encouraging others to also risk their lives in an attempt to get here. I would say the first step is to try to understand why the UK is perceived to be preferable to any other safe country they've already travelled through but also to ensure we are taking our fair share of refugees from the countries they arrive at.

Having been refused asylum in Italy, France and the Netherlands, where would you try next?


If there are genuine reasons for being denied asylum in all those countries then the chances are they'll be denied by the UK too and do so then we are getting into a debate about whether we should accept them remaining for other reasons. As I say, my main concern is that if we took the approach that they've risked their lives to get here so we should help them it will lead to more people taking the same or greater risks to get here which can't be a good thing.

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Re: Refugees Channel crossing

Postby Pross » Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:41 am

rjsterry wrote:
bradsbeard wrote:Shouldn't asylum be claimed at the first EU country you encounter? If your that desperate to flee persecution then why do you want to come to the UK?

Economic migrants.

Sorry to be harsh but need to be returned back to France.


Except that means that Turkey, Greece, Italy and Spain end up shouldering the entire burden of migration across the Mediterranean. That's not really fair on our neighbours given that we were actively involved in the conflicts in Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya.


Isn't the case that you claim asylum in the first country and that other countries agree to accept a certain number? If not that's how I feel it should happen and the UK should certainly take its fair share.

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bradsbeard
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Re: Refugees Channel crossing

Postby bradsbeard » Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:50 am

rjsterry wrote:
bradsbeard wrote:Shouldn't asylum be claimed at the first EU country you encounter? If your that desperate to flee persecution then why do you want to come to the UK?

Economic migrants.

Sorry to be harsh but need to be returned back to France.


Except that means that Turkey, Greece, Italy and Spain end up shouldering the entire burden of migration across the Mediterranean. That's not really fair on our neighbours given that we were actively involved in the conflicts in Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya.


Aren't 95% of these migrants claiming to Iranian?

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rjsterry
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Re: Refugees Channel crossing

Postby rjsterry » Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:53 am

bradsbeard wrote:
rjsterry wrote:
bradsbeard wrote:Shouldn't asylum be claimed at the first EU country you encounter? If your that desperate to flee persecution then why do you want to come to the UK?

Economic migrants.

Sorry to be harsh but need to be returned back to France.


Except that means that Turkey, Greece, Italy and Spain end up shouldering the entire burden of migration across the Mediterranean. That's not really fair on our neighbours given that we were actively involved in the conflicts in Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya.


Aren't 95% of these migrants claiming to Iranian?

No idea. Sounds like a statistic made up on the spot to me.
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Slowbike
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Re: Refugees Channel crossing

Postby Slowbike » Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:08 am

2 simplistic issues

1) Why do they want to come to the EU/UK & How to reverse that
2) What to do with those who make it


1) Variety of reasons - usually wanting a better life - those from Syria/Iran/Iraq mostly escaping conflict. Those from African nations are mostly economic reasons - after a better/western life.

2) Whilst we're in the EU, then we should take our share - iirc, we have been taking less than "our share" in the past

back to 1) - how to reverse it - if it were simple then it would've been done ... but, again, simplisticly, you've got to remove the incentive to get here - either by helping the source country be more attractive or by making the destination country seem worse ....I guess we're on the latter at the moment ... ;)

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bradsbeard
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Re: Refugees Channel crossing

Postby bradsbeard » Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:25 am

bradsbeard wrote:
rjsterry wrote:
bradsbeard wrote:Shouldn't asylum be claimed at the first EU country you encounter? If your that desperate to flee persecution then why do you want to come to the UK?

Economic migrants.

Sorry to be harsh but need to be returned back to France.


Except that means that Turkey, Greece, Italy and Spain end up shouldering the entire burden of migration across the Mediterranean. That's not really fair on our neighbours given that we were actively involved in the conflicts in Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya.


Aren't 95% of these migrants claiming to Iranian?


I think you'll find they are in the vast majority claiming to be Iranian.

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rjsterry
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Re: Refugees Channel crossing

Postby rjsterry » Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:30 am

bradsbeard wrote:
bradsbeard wrote:
rjsterry wrote:
bradsbeard wrote:Shouldn't asylum be claimed at the first EU country you encounter? If your that desperate to flee persecution then why do you want to come to the UK?

Economic migrants.

Sorry to be harsh but need to be returned back to France.


Except that means that Turkey, Greece, Italy and Spain end up shouldering the entire burden of migration across the Mediterranean. That's not really fair on our neighbours given that we were actively involved in the conflicts in Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya.


Aren't 95% of these migrants claiming to Iranian?


I think you'll find they are in the vast majority claiming to be Iranian.


Show me a source for that then. As I say, I've no idea. I'm assuming you haven't carried out your own research on the south coast.
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rjsterry
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Re: Refugees Channel crossing

Postby rjsterry » Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:35 am

Saved you the bother.

Image

A few years out of date so feel free to post figures for 2019 if you can find them.
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Franco di Banco
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Re: Refugees Channel crossing

Postby Franco di Banco » Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:37 am

bradsbeard wrote:Shouldn't asylum be claimed at the first EU country you encounter? If your that desperate to flee persecution then why do you want to come to the UK?

Economic migrants.

Sorry to be harsh but need to be returned back to France.

Spot on. It's yet another problem the French want to dump on us. European rules say they should deal with it, but as ever they only follow the rules they like.

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Re: Refugees Channel crossing

Postby PBlakeney » Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:47 am

bradsbeard wrote:Shouldn't asylum be claimed at the first EU country you encounter? If your that desperate to flee persecution then why do you want to come to the UK?

Economic migrants.

Sorry to be harsh but need to be returned back to France.

Really?
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Re: Refugees Channel crossing

Postby oxoman » Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:51 am

Personally the Aussies have the right way, you want to work and integrate fully and have proper job to come to then no problem otherwise tuff love return to previous departure point. Any boats seized with illegal immigrants in should be seized and destroyed to stop re-use, people encouraging them to come over illegally should be prosecuted and jailed and that includes lieing devious politicians and do gooders. Rant over
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Re: Refugees Channel crossing

Postby Stevo 666 » Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:10 pm

oxoman wrote:people encouraging them to come over illegally should be prosecuted and jailed and that includes lieing devious politicians and do gooders. Rant over

This place would be even quieter than parliament if you did that :)
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