Spirituality

The place for more serious off topic questions, light hearted banter and friendly chat.
morstar
Posts: 2225
Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 23:30 pm

Re: Spirituality

Postby morstar » Mon Sep 09, 2019 20:15 pm

Spirituality is an evolutionary imperative as evidenced by the fact it is evident in all cultures across the globe over thousands of years. It's all tied into morality and curiosity and just part of the make up of being human.
That it can manifest itself in an externalised belief system is just us trying to make sense of an existence we can't fully understand.
It doesn't have to manifest itself as a belief system but to deny any sort of inner spirituality means you are either on a scale of psychopathy or in denial of evolution.
It's no different to when people say the dress up to look good for themselves and not to attract. You are completely denying the essence of evolution and why you are compelled to want to look attractive. You might think it is for your own benefit but it is programmed behaviour over which you have little control.
Spirituality is scientific. Feeling good is scientific.

HaydenM
Posts: 2629
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2016 09:03 am

Re: Spirituality

Postby HaydenM » Tue Sep 10, 2019 08:34 am

morstar wrote:Spirituality is an evolutionary imperative as evidenced by the fact it is evident in all cultures across the globe over thousands of years. It's all tied into morality and curiosity and just part of the make up of being human.
That it can manifest itself in an externalised belief system is just us trying to make sense of an existence we can't fully understand.
It doesn't have to manifest itself as a belief system but to deny any sort of inner spirituality means you are either on a scale of psychopathy or in denial of evolution.
It's no different to when people say the dress up to look good for themselves and not to attract. You are completely denying the essence of evolution and why you are compelled to want to look attractive. You might think it is for your own benefit but it is programmed behaviour over which you have little control.
Spirituality is scientific. Feeling good is scientific.


I'm not sure I agree. I think that inner spirituality is a byproduct of our evolutionary need to answer important questions rather than a specific evolutionary trait in itself. To me, the greatness nature and the universe (in a pure rational form) is directly interchangeable for what a lot of people would call spiritualism and fulfills the same purpose essentially.

If you take the view that there is no greater order, universal plan or 'meaning of life' I can't see how it's denying evolution to transfer your 'spirituality' onto admiring the marvel of the universe without spiritualism?

Tangled Metal
Posts: 3925
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 08:54 am

Re: Spirituality

Postby Tangled Metal » Tue Sep 10, 2019 09:24 am

Admiring nature sends the universe could be taken as a form of spirituality. Whether you agree or not I feel there is a spirituality in my appreciation of nature. I hold no religious affiliations and don't ascribe any power to this appreciation. It's simply what makes me sit on the edge if a crag and look out across morecambe bay for some time. Or on a quiet Lakeland hill looking set the views. It's still a form if spirituality.

HaydenM
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Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2016 09:03 am

Re: Spirituality

Postby HaydenM » Tue Sep 10, 2019 09:45 am

Tangled Metal wrote:Admiring nature sends the universe could be taken as a form of spirituality. Whether you agree or not I feel there is a spirituality in my appreciation of nature. I hold no religious affiliations and don't ascribe any power to this appreciation. It's simply what makes me sit on the edge if a crag and look out across morecambe bay for some time. Or on a quiet Lakeland hill looking set the views. It's still a form if spirituality.


Good point, spirituality or mindfulness can be the same whatever angle you come at it. For religious people appreciating a view it's still an effective form of mindfulness, which is where I think a lot of people really benefit from religion (not that I would know). For me spirituality implies a certain sense of meaning or higher power rather than accepting biological emotional responses to an infinitely complex but 'logical' world, but there doesn't seem to be any real definition

morstar
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Joined: Mon Dec 21, 2009 23:30 pm

Re: Spirituality

Postby morstar » Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:23 am

That's my point. Spirituality is a broad thing that is fundamentally part of the human condition. It just has many manifestations. It's that awe, wonder and moral makeup of what we are.

Tangled Metal
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Re: Spirituality

Postby Tangled Metal » Tue Sep 10, 2019 14:25 pm

Spirituality doesn't have to be religion. Mindfulness is a fashionable term that means nothing but means a lot to practitioners. It's not defined and can mean anything and everything. Simply thinking about what you need to do today some call mindfulness. It's become a phrase with too much attributed to it which IMHO makes it meaningless as a "thing".

If you're into yoga, the breathing / meditation aspect could be called mindfulness or spirituality or just exercise. Take your pick of what you think it is.

Martial arts, that can be a form if mindfulness or spirituality. If that's how you understand your art form / style. Tai chi is often thought of as a meditative exercise. It's a fighting style where the slow form it's training for the fast form that's fighting. What's the difference? Those older people dancing around slowly are doing fighting training routines. Speed it up you're blocking, locking and striking your opponent. One is easy to understand at meditation or spirituality but the other isn't. It's the same motion.

HaydenM
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Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2016 09:03 am

Re: Spirituality

Postby HaydenM » Tue Sep 10, 2019 14:35 pm

Tangled Metal wrote:Spirituality doesn't have to be religion. Mindfulness is a fashionable term that means nothing but means a lot to practitioners. It's not defined and can mean anything and everything. Simply thinking about what you need to do today some call mindfulness. It's become a phrase with too much attributed to it which IMHO makes it meaningless as a "thing".

If you're into yoga, the breathing / meditation aspect could be called mindfulness or spirituality or just exercise. Take your pick of what you think it is.

Martial arts, that can be a form if mindfulness or spirituality. If that's how you understand your art form / style. Tai chi is often thought of as a meditative exercise. It's a fighting style where the slow form it's training for the fast form that's fighting. What's the difference? Those older people dancing around slowly are doing fighting training routines. Speed it up you're blocking, locking and striking your opponent. One is easy to understand at meditation or spirituality but the other isn't. It's the same motion.


I'm not cool enough for mindfullness practitioners so I'm not best placed to judge, but I mentioned mindfullness along with spirituality because they are both quite undefined and seem to mean the same thing in a lot of cases. Although spirituality seems to have a fair amount of madness lumped in with it (Gwyneth Paltrow style) which is probably unfair, and mindfullness will be no better either.

I'm currently reading Nausea- Satre at the moment so it's difficult to think straight... :lol:

Tangled Metal
Posts: 3925
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 08:54 am

Re: Spirituality

Postby Tangled Metal » Tue Sep 10, 2019 14:45 pm

I've started to bullet journal which is explained as organisation with mindfulness. It's a particular style of planning that you use with looking back at what you've done / achieved and linking forward at what you need to do / achieve. It's this looking at it that counts at mindfulness. Bunkum!

HaydenM
Posts: 2629
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2016 09:03 am

Re: Spirituality

Postby HaydenM » Tue Sep 10, 2019 15:09 pm

Tangled Metal wrote:I've started to bullet journal which is explained as organisation with mindfulness. It's a particular style of planning that you use with looking back at what you've done / achieved and linking forward at what you need to do / achieve. It's this looking at it that counts at mindfulness. Bunkum!


I bought a dotted notepad for that purpose and never used it, I should probably start...

Tangled Metal
Posts: 3925
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 08:54 am

Re: Spirituality

Postby Tangled Metal » Tue Sep 10, 2019 21:21 pm

HaydenM wrote:
Tangled Metal wrote:I've started to bullet journal which is explained as organisation with mindfulness. It's a particular style of planning that you use with looking back at what you've done / achieved and linking forward at what you need to do / achieve. It's this looking at it that counts at mindfulness. Bunkum!


I bought a dotted notepad for that purpose and never used it, I should probably start...

Do try it out. You might not get into it, I didn't at first. I started it January but only wrote the monthly log pages send didn't use it until April or may then i stopped it. I restarted it August halfway through the month and have got into it.

Keep it very simple then try out things. I did that zest the back until I found what I liked and used. Then i moved it to the front and used it properly. That way I developed the journal I liked, used and found useful. Still early days though.


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