Spirituality

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mfin
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Spirituality

Postby mfin » Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:01 am

Spirituality.

Don't get it. Don't get people who think it is a 'thing'. Don't think it can or should be taken seriously.

People who say they are 'spiritual' or mention the spiritual aspects of life. Facepalm.

It is a good way of selling certain tat to certain people though!

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rjsterry
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Re: Spirituality

Postby rjsterry » Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:21 am

mfin wrote:Spirituality.

Don't get it. Don't get people who think it is a 'thing'. Don't think it can or should be taken seriously.

People who say they are 'spiritual' or mention the spiritual aspects of life. Facepalm.

It is a good way of selling certain tat to certain people though!


Good open-minded approach there. Are you really interested in answering the question or not?
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mfin
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Re: Spirituality

Postby mfin » Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:26 am

There's nothing to be open-minded about. I'm completely interested in anything that is based on fact and things that are proven by science. Note that not having a void that needs filling by spirituality or any form of hocus pocus doesn't mean not being open-minded. When evidence of something is scientifically investigated I am completely open to the result, that is open-minded.

I expect there's a fair amount of discussion that could be had about spirituality. Do you have anything to add?

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Wheelspinner
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Re: Spirituality

Postby Wheelspinner » Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:30 am

mfin wrote:There's nothing to be open-minded about. I'm completely interested in anything that is based on fact and things that are proven by science. Note that not having a void that needs filling by spirituality or any form of hocus pocus doesn't mean not being open-minded. When evidence of something is scientifically investigated I am completely open to the result, that is open-minded.

Possibly an odd question, but have you ever fallen in love with someone?

If so, why?

Was it just a number of facts that added up to a defined result you expected, or... what?

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bompington
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Re: Spirituality

Postby bompington » Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:33 am

Ah, Scientism.

Can you prove that only things that are provable by Science are true?

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Rick Chasey
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Re: Spirituality

Postby Rick Chasey » Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:42 am

mfin wrote:Spirituality.

Don't get it. Don't get people who think it is a 'thing'. Don't think it can or should be taken seriously.

People who say they are 'spiritual' or mention the spiritual aspects of life. Facepalm.

It is a good way of selling certain tat to certain people though!


Have you ever thought, that, for some people, it really helps their mental well-being?

I'm athiest but even i have taken to sitting in a church from time to time to try and calm my thoughts down.

I can very well imagine if my life had taken a tougher turn, leaning on some type of spiritualism might just help put things into perspective and give you some helpful mental fortitude when the world is being plainly unfair.

We all get through the world in different ways.

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mfin
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Re: Spirituality

Postby mfin » Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:47 am

Rick Chasey wrote:
mfin wrote:Spirituality.

Don't get it. Don't get people who think it is a 'thing'. Don't think it can or should be taken seriously.

People who say they are 'spiritual' or mention the spiritual aspects of life. Facepalm.

It is a good way of selling certain tat to certain people though!


Have you ever thought, that, for some people, it really helps their mental well-being?


Yes, absolutely. However it is not "it" that helps their mental well-being, as "it" in itself is nothing really.

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rjsterry
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Re: Spirituality

Postby rjsterry » Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:48 am

mfin wrote:There's nothing to be open-minded about. I'm completely interested in anything that is based on fact and things that are proven by science. Note that not having a void that needs filling by spirituality or any form of hocus pocus doesn't mean not being open-minded. When evidence of something is scientifically investigated I am completely open to the result, that is open-minded.

I expect there's a fair amount of discussion that could be had about spirituality. Do you have anything to add?


I meant are you interested in finding out what others mean when they talk about spirituality? If you start from the point of view that it's just people believing in things that they cannot prove then you're not going to get very far. Are you not curious to find out why it seems to be a feature of humanity throughout our history and in all locations? And if it is just believing in imaginary things, that is fascinating in itself. The ability to imagine, to conceive of yourself in a situation other than your immediate environment is an extraordinarily powerful tool and looking at the numbers of us, would seem to have been a very successful series of genetic mutations. Is a sense of spirituality, which seems to occur across all of human history, something that provides a an evolutionary advantage? If it isn't, why is it so prevalent?
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mfin
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Re: Spirituality

Postby mfin » Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:50 am

Wheelspinner wrote:
mfin wrote:There's nothing to be open-minded about. I'm completely interested in anything that is based on fact and things that are proven by science. Note that not having a void that needs filling by spirituality or any form of hocus pocus doesn't mean not being open-minded. When evidence of something is scientifically investigated I am completely open to the result, that is open-minded.

Possibly an odd question, but have you ever fallen in love with someone?

If so, why?

Was it just a number of facts that added up to a defined result you expected, or... what?


I don't see the connection. Love doesn't have me believing in anything weird.

To me that argument is no different to saying have you ever felt really happy or sad about how life is for you.

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Rick Chasey
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Re: Spirituality

Postby Rick Chasey » Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:51 am

mfin wrote:
Rick Chasey wrote:
mfin wrote:Spirituality.

Don't get it. Don't get people who think it is a 'thing'. Don't think it can or should be taken seriously.

People who say they are 'spiritual' or mention the spiritual aspects of life. Facepalm.

It is a good way of selling certain tat to certain people though!


Have you ever thought, that, for some people, it really helps their mental well-being?


Yes, absolutely. However it is not "it" that helps their mental well-being, as "it" in itself is nothing really.


Does it matter?

We only know the world through our own brain. Reality is arbitrary anyway.
Last edited by Rick Chasey on Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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mfin
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Re: Spirituality

Postby mfin » Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:52 am

rjsterry wrote:
mfin wrote:There's nothing to be open-minded about. I'm completely interested in anything that is based on fact and things that are proven by science. Note that not having a void that needs filling by spirituality or any form of hocus pocus doesn't mean not being open-minded. When evidence of something is scientifically investigated I am completely open to the result, that is open-minded.

I expect there's a fair amount of discussion that could be had about spirituality. Do you have anything to add?


I meant are you interested in finding out what others mean when they talk about spirituality? If you start from the point of view that it's just people believing in things that they cannot prove then you're not going to get very far.


Yep, interested. Not getting very far? Your next sentences seem to do exactly that...

rjsterry wrote:Are you not curious to find out why it seems to be a feature of humanity throughout our history and in all locations? And if it is just believing in imaginary things, that is fascinating in itself. The ability to imagine, to conceive of yourself in a situation other than your immediate environment is an extraordinarily powerful tool and looking at the numbers of us, would seem to have been a very successful series of genetic mutations. Is a sense of spirituality, which seems to occur across all of human history, something that provides a an evolutionary advantage? If it isn't, why is it so prevalent?

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Wheelspinner
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Re: Spirituality

Postby Wheelspinner » Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:56 am

mfin wrote:
Wheelspinner wrote:
mfin wrote:There's nothing to be open-minded about. I'm completely interested in anything that is based on fact and things that are proven by science. Note that not having a void that needs filling by spirituality or any form of hocus pocus doesn't mean not being open-minded. When evidence of something is scientifically investigated I am completely open to the result, that is open-minded.

Possibly an odd question, but have you ever fallen in love with someone?

If so, why?

Was it just a number of facts that added up to a defined result you expected, or... what?


I don't see the connection. Love doesn't have me believing in anything weird.

To me that argument is no different to saying have you ever felt really happy or sad about how life is for you.

Still single then, eh? :D

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mfin
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Re: Spirituality

Postby mfin » Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:03 am

I completely agree that it is fascinating that many people do consider this stuff real.

Personally I think there are people who feel a need to come to some kind of conclusions about the unknown, and generally they fulfil this need with religion or declaring a belief in the spiritual. There's no need for a rational person to do this. If we accept that our own brains are only capable of so much, and even collectively over generations are only capable of so much, there really is nothing to worry about.

How Trevor from Coventry Bus Station for example could think that his feelings that there is a god or purpose of existence that he thinks is real is actually nothing short of mental. However, I agree that if Trevor from Coventry Bus Station thinks this then he can think this. It is completely self-generated, has no substance, and whilst it might have the illusion of being completely real to him, it very likely isn't, because Trevor from Coventry Bus Station does not know something that others don't.

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mfin
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Re: Spirituality

Postby mfin » Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:04 am

Wheelspinner wrote:Still single then, eh? :D


No :)

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rjsterry
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Re: Spirituality

Postby rjsterry » Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:24 am

mfin wrote:I completely agree that it is fascinating that many people do consider this stuff real.

Personally I think there are people who feel a need to come to some kind of conclusions about the unknown, and generally they fulfil this need with religion or declaring a belief in the spiritual. There's no need for a rational person to do this. If we accept that our own brains are only capable of so much, and even collectively over generations are only capable of so much, there really is nothing to worry about.

How Trevor from Coventry Bus Station for example could think that his feelings that there is a god or purpose of existence that he thinks is real is actually nothing short of mental. However, I agree that if Trevor from Coventry Bus Station thinks this then he can think this. It is completely self-generated, has no substance, and whilst it might have the illusion of being completely real to him, it very likely isn't, because Trevor from Coventry Bus Station does not know something that others don't.


I think your definition of real needs expanding. Personifying something is a way of making it easier for our brains to understand, perhaps in a similar way that we see faces everywhere. In polytheistic religions, individual virtues or phenomena are given different personification and even in monotheistic religions there is usually a split between good and evil. That is not the same as people believing that the god *is* a 'real' physical person or being.
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lettingthedaysgoby
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Re: Spirituality

Postby lettingthedaysgoby » Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:28 am

bompington wrote:Ah, Scientism.

Can you prove that only things that are provable by Science are true?

That's... not how it works. Try again.

philcubed
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Re: Spirituality

Postby philcubed » Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:40 am

All I know is that Spiritualized are playing the Hackney Empire this Saturday, and I'll be there.

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bompington
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Re: Spirituality

Postby bompington » Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:27 pm

lettingthedaysgoby wrote:
bompington wrote:Ah, Scientism.

Can you prove that only things that are provable by Science are true?

That's... not how it works. Try again.

Do explain how it does work for me then...

PhilipPirrip
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Re: Spirituality

Postby PhilipPirrip » Mon Sep 09, 2019 12:44 pm

mfin wrote:Cycling.

Don't get it. Don't get people who think it is a 'thing'. Don't think it can or should be taken seriously.

People who say they are 'cyclists' or mention the cycling aspects of life. Facepalm.

It is a good way of selling certain tat to certain people though!

Interesting what happens when you change the theme.

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lettingthedaysgoby
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Re: Spirituality

Postby lettingthedaysgoby » Mon Sep 09, 2019 13:05 pm

bompington wrote:
lettingthedaysgoby wrote:
bompington wrote:Ah, Scientism.

Can you prove that only things that are provable by Science are true?

That's... not how it works. Try again.

Do explain how it does work for me then...

Start with an idea. Test it. Report back. Refine idea.

That's it.


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